Re: SCALA 17 limit j.i. scale

Hi Joseph,

Yes, I've seen the thread on the SCALA 17 limit j.i. scale.

Like a wood turner making a bowl, maybe sometimes one wants a
near as possible flawless piece of timber with a smooth grain, maybe sometimes
one with knots and whorls in it.

I use that scale in FTS in the New Scale window, for the same reason that
you used it, as the only 7-limit j.i. scale in the SCALA archive.

However, I plan to keep it there, and see no reason to change.

I think the idea of adding text to describe scales in the SCALA archive is
a good idea, and would be interested to read them.

For modern scales, I'd first of all be most interested in the intentions of the original
constructor of the scale, and what he/she had in mind when making it.

Perhaps the text could also be added to as time goes on, with details
of ways the scale has actually been used too, or useful properties of it
that were found later, perhaps not originally envisioned by the author.

Scale construction may seem a great mystery, but it isn't really.
It is just the scaffolding one uses to describe the pitches of a piece,
the music really comes first, though it may be that one starts with
a scale.

A nice starting point is to choose a chord you like, and try the
effect of adding a single note to it.

For instance if one were to use a major chord plus 11/8 as the only
notes in a piece, and if there was no larger context implied by it,
then the natural thing would be to say that it was in the scale
1/1 5/4 3/2 11/8 2/1

My bitter sweet example fractal tune uses 1/1 5/4 3/2 11/8 2/1.
http://www.tunesmithy.connectfree.co.uk/index.htm

If one can't find that scale anywhere, then one can just construct it anew
- the number of possible subsets of the rationals is of course
infinite, and even with small quotient ratios, and small numbers of
notes, it is very large indeed.

Also, it seems to me, one can take an already written composition
and try it out in various tunings, and see what happens. Why not?

If one likes the result, then that is the only reason one needs for using it.

Or one can work the other way, and take an already constructed scale,
and see what kind of music evolves out of working with it, and that also
is very interesting.

Pierre Lamothe's graphics are nice. They could easily be made into
client side image maps, with links to midi clips for each note.

I do have plans _eventually_ to help develop some kind of tool for
constructing VRML lattices and trees for musical scales.

However meanwhile, one can do a lot in 2D with client side image maps.

They are _really easy_ to make with a suitable tool. You just use the mouse to
draw regions on top of the source image, and type in the url for each one.

You just use the usual paint type tools for drawing rectangles, polygons and ellipses.

Here is the example client side image map I posted to the list some time back,
showing the octony:

http://www.robertwalker.f9.co.uk/Octony/Octony.htm

/tuning/topicId_16109.html#16109

As for making all the midi clips for the links, one can make a list of file names for them
using the convention 3o2.mid for 3/2 etc, and then ask FTS to read your list of
file names, and make the MIDI clips for them all.

This is explained in the help, but on looking it over, I see that some of it is not
explained
so well, so the help will be need to be updated.

----------------------------how its done--------------------------------

For example, suppose you wanted midi clips for all the notes of the major scale plus 11/8,
you'd make this list of file names:
1.mid
5o4.mid
3o2.mid
11o8.mid
2.mid

Save the list of file names as the file
MIDI_CLIPS
in a folder.

Choose New

Untick cycle tune.

Select the instrument you want to play into channel 1.

Set the length of time for each note in the time for one note box, and
the pitch for 1/1 using the Pitch... window.

Then navigate to the MIDI_CLIPS folder in FTS. and enter #mmc
into the Sustain box.

FTS will then whir for a while, and you will then find all the midi clips
in the directory.

For some more details see
FTS | Help | Main Window | Record as you play along | An extra option for
MIDI clips
but I see this help needs some updating - I forgot to say that one needs
to select New, and untick cycle tune first.

Ask if you need anything explained, and if anything isn't clear.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You still have a 2D projection, but when you click on a point in the
lattice, you will be able to hear the note.

For a fully 3D construction kit, I wonder if anyone has
already done a 3D image map editor in VRML - seems a natural
idea. May be worth checking out the VRML repository.
http://www.web3d.org/vrml/wb31.htm
There are lots of programs for making 3D VRML scenes.

I imagine they will have options to add web urls to objects in the
scenes, as that is one of the things one can do in VRML.

Perhaps someone would be interested to explore and
find out if any are particularly good for making musical lattices?

I'd certainly use one of these if I wished to make a complex scene
in VRML.

So far, the scenes I've made have involved editing the source code
directly in a VRML text editor, as I have been interested in learning
the language, plus everything I've needed to do could be done
that way without any need to learn the higher level way of doing it.

But for most, the higher level approach will be better :-)

Once more, you can make the musical clips in FTS, just use
the same ones as for the 2D projection.

Robert

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_19149.html#19149

> Hi Joseph,
>
> Yes, I've seen the thread on the SCALA 17 limit j.i. scale.
>
> Like a wood turner making a bowl, maybe sometimes one wants a
> near as possible flawless piece of timber with a smooth grain, maybe
sometimes one with knots and whorls in it. I use that scale in FTS in
the New Scale window, for the same reason that you used it, as the
only 7-limit j.i. scale in the SCALA archive. However, I plan to keep
it there, and see no reason to change.
>

Yes, I wrote some pieces with it too, before Paul Erlich gave me the
knowledge that it was a little, er, "peculiar..."

> I think the idea of adding text to describe scales in the SCALA
archive is a good idea, and would be interested to read them.

I was thinking that maybe all we need is a .txt file with the same
name as the SCALA file. It looks as though Manuel op de Coul might be
amenable to this. They could actually be in a separate directory,
thereby not "cluttering" up the scales directory which is, of course,
huge as it is....

>
> For modern scales, I'd first of all be most interested in the
intentions of the original constructor of the scale, and what he/she
had in mind when making it.
>

Certainly it would be great to have this kind of "history" as well. It
definitely could influence the usage of the scales, I believe...

> Perhaps the text could also be added to as time goes on, with
details of ways the scale has actually been used too, or useful
properties of it that were found later, perhaps not originally
envisioned by the author.

If this could happen, and people would do it, it would be terrific...

>
> Also, it seems to me, one can take an already written composition
> and try it out in various tunings, and see what happens. Why not?
>

Well, of course... However, from my limited experience it is lots of
times unsatisfactory... It's amazing how much even a little change
from the scale a piece was created in can change an entire
composition!

There are sometimes little "happy accidents" that happen in the
process of composing and if the ear decides to "retain" them, that is,
it seems to me, an important part of the compositional process. Many
times, of course, little anomalies are intimately wedded to a
particular tuning.

Or, we could just be like Jackson Pollock in the recent, and very fine
film starring Ed Harris, which is playing right now in NYC Lincoln
Center.

Pollock had proclaimed "I abhor the accident." He was obviously the
master of the "calculated" ink splash!

> Or one can work the other way, and take an already constructed
scale, and see what kind of music evolves out of working with it, and
that also is very interesting.
>

This procedure, to my ear, lends itself more to "sound logic..."

> Pierre Lamothe's graphics are nice. They could easily be made into
> client side image maps, with links to midi clips for each note.
>

Well, I was just thinking of something simple, not even wonderfully
"interactive" like your great VRMLs have been. I was just seeing
Paul's lattices in color with a bit more depth like, let's say, Pierre
Lamothe has been doing...

> I do have plans _eventually_ to help develop some kind of tool for
> constructing VRML lattices and trees for musical scales.
>

Or even some kind of simple tool for making "construction set" type
lattices with color.... Something EASY that one could pull together
instead of the colorless ascii... for demonstrating scale lattices,
etc...

>
> So far, the scenes I've made have involved editing the source code
> directly in a VRML text editor, as I have been interested in
learning the language, plus everything I've needed to do could be done
> that way without any need to learn the higher level way of doing it.
>
> But for most, the higher level approach will be better :-)
>

Er... agreed. Some simple, fast method for making colorful lattices,
like a "visual construction set" would be a great asset. Let's say
with lines that one could just easily link together... like a Viseo
program or something... and perhaps an automatic place for the ratio.

Well, this is just dreaming, but sometimes things can come of it...

__________ ____ _____ ___
Joseph Pehrson