Beethoven's humor (was: Orchestration / Microtonality / Adler)

> From: jpehrson2 <jpehrson@...>
> To: <metatuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 7:46 PM
> Subject: [metatuning] Re: Orchestration / Microtonality / Adler
>
>
> --- In metatuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
>
> /metatuning/topicId_1603.html#1626
>
> >
> > Beethoven was the great innovator all the way around. i wouldn't
> > say "he was a terrible orchestrator", but sheesh, he did go deaf.
> >
> > some of his orchestral touches are great because of their humor.
> > my favorite is in the scherzo from the 6th Symphony ("Pastoral"),
> > where his intention was to portray a country band. <snip>
> > ...
> > Beethoven was fond of playing practical jokes on the musicians
> > in his orchestras in this manner. unfortunately most listeners
> > today miss the jokes and don't have a clue that there's humor
> > in there.
> >
>
> ****I never knew this, Monz! And the 6th was always one of my
> *faves...* I'll have to go back and try to figure out where this
> all is.

i'll save you the trouble:

from Robert Haven Schauffler, 1933,
_Beethoven: The Man Who Freed Music_, p 267,
quoting Schindler, Beethoven's factotum and first biographer:

>>> Beethoven had asked me if I had not noticed how village
>>> musicians often played in their sleep, occasionally letting
>>> their instruments fall and keeping quite still, then waking
>>> up with a start, getting in a fw vigorous blows or strokes
>>> at a venture, although usually in the right mey, and then
>>> dropping to sleep again. He had tried to hit off these
>>> poor people in hi s'Pastoral" symphony. NOw, reader,
>>> take up the score ...
>>>
>>> Note the stereotyped accompaniment figure of the two violins
>>> (bar 87); note the sleep-drunken second bassoon (bar 95)
>>> with his repetition of a few tones, while contrabass,
>>> violoncello and viola keep quiet. (At bar 127) we see the
>>> viola wake up and apparently awaken the violoncello [which
>>> comes in a bar later] -- and [two more bars later] the
>>> sinks into silence again. At length contrabass (bar 149)
>>> and the two bassoons (bar 154) pull themselves together
>>> for a new effort and the clarinet has time to take a rest.

Schauffler himself then adds:

>> Schindler might also have pointed out how the oboe
>> apparently omes to his wits too late for his solo in
>> the 91st measure, starts with a false accent [i.e., on
>> the 2nd beat], and takes four bars to catch up with the
>> procession.
>>
>> The rough but tender humour of this strictly musical farce
>> was something quite novel in music, and one must admit
>> that this sort of tenderness is not very often to be
>> found elsewhere in the Master's compositions or in his
>> life. Here he enriched music with a new kind of laughter.

> I've always found humor in Beethoven... maybe not so much as in
> Haydn, but it certainly is there...

you're probably right that there's less humor in Beethoven
than in Haydn ... but Beethoven's is of a more intense and
very different kind. note how Schauffler stresses that
tenderness is not usually an aspect of Beethoven's humor.

Haydn's was like "hey guys, let's have some fun".

Beethoven's was like "take t h a t , you bastard!".

-monz

_________________________________________________________
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> Haydn's was like "hey guys, let's have some fun".
>
> Beethoven's was like "take t h a t , you bastard!".

:)

Great way of putting it, monz.

-C.

--- In metatuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_1660.html#1660

>
> i'll save you the trouble:
>
>
> from Robert Haven Schauffler, 1933,
> _Beethoven: The Man Who Freed Music_, p 267,
> quoting Schindler, Beethoven's factotum and first biographer:
>

***Thanks, Monz... this is neat... I'll put this in my score.

>
> you're probably right that there's less humor in Beethoven
> than in Haydn ... but Beethoven's is of a more intense and
> very different kind. note how Schauffler stresses that
> tenderness is not usually an aspect of Beethoven's humor.
>
> Haydn's was like "hey guys, let's have some fun".
>
> Beethoven's was like "take t h a t , you bastard!".
>

*****Right! Which is probably why they didn't get along so well.

JP

--- In metatuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_1660.html#1660

>
> > From: jpehrson2 <jpehrson@r...>
> > To: <metatuning@y...>
> > Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 7:46 PM
> > Subject: [metatuning] Re: Orchestration / Microtonality / Adler
> >
> >
> > --- In metatuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
> >
> > /metatuning/topicId_1603.html#1626
> >
> > >
> > > Beethoven was the great innovator all the way around. i
wouldn't
> > > say "he was a terrible orchestrator", but sheesh, he did go
deaf.
> > >
> > > some of his orchestral touches are great because of their humor.
> > > my favorite is in the scherzo from the 6th Symphony
("Pastoral"),
> > > where his intention was to portray a country band. <snip>
> > > ...
> > > Beethoven was fond of playing practical jokes on the musicians
> > > in his orchestras in this manner. unfortunately most listeners
> > > today miss the jokes and don't have a clue that there's humor
> > > in there.
> > >
> >
> > ****I never knew this, Monz! And the 6th was always one of my
> > *faves...* I'll have to go back and try to figure out where this
> > all is.
>
>
>
> i'll save you the trouble:
>
>
> from Robert Haven Schauffler, 1933,
> _Beethoven: The Man Who Freed Music_, p 267,
> quoting Schindler, Beethoven's factotum and first biographer:
>
>
> >>> Beethoven had asked me if I had not noticed how village
> >>> musicians often played in their sleep, occasionally letting
> >>> their instruments fall and keeping quite still, then waking
> >>> up with a start, getting in a fw vigorous blows or strokes
> >>> at a venture, although usually in the right mey, and then
> >>> dropping to sleep again. He had tried to hit off these
> >>> poor people in hi s'Pastoral" symphony. NOw, reader,
> >>> take up the score ...
> >>>
> >>> Note the stereotyped accompaniment figure of the two violins
> >>> (bar 87); note the sleep-drunken second bassoon (bar 95)
> >>> with his repetition of a few tones, while contrabass,
> >>> violoncello and viola keep quiet. (At bar 127) we see the
> >>> viola wake up and apparently awaken the violoncello [which
> >>> comes in a bar later] -- and [two more bars later] the
> >>> sinks into silence again. At length contrabass (bar 149)
> >>> and the two bassoons (bar 154) pull themselves together
> >>> for a new effort and the clarinet has time to take a rest.
>
>
> Schauffler himself then adds:
>
> >> Schindler might also have pointed out how the oboe
> >> apparently omes to his wits too late for his solo in
> >> the 91st measure, starts with a false accent [i.e., on
> >> the 2nd beat], and takes four bars to catch up with the
> >> procession.
> >>
> >> The rough but tender humour of this strictly musical farce
> >> was something quite novel in music, and one must admit
> >> that this sort of tenderness is not very often to be
> >> found elsewhere in the Master's compositions or in his
> >> life. Here he enriched music with a new kind of laughter.
>
>
>
> > I've always found humor in Beethoven... maybe not so much as in
> > Haydn, but it certainly is there...
>
>
> you're probably right that there's less humor in Beethoven
> than in Haydn ... but Beethoven's is of a more intense and
> very different kind. note how Schauffler stresses that
> tenderness is not usually an aspect of Beethoven's humor.
>
> Haydn's was like "hey guys, let's have some fun".
>
> Beethoven's was like "take t h a t , you bastard!".
>
>

****We should probably note, just in case somebody else tries to look
this up in the score, as *I* did, that the references here are the
*THIRD* movement of Symphony #6. What a tune!

JP