Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup makemicromusic no lyrics?

I don't read every post or download every
song here. Maybe it's just me...

Is it true that few microtonal compositions
have lyrics?

If true, why?

Is the writing of lyrics and the compositon
of music *generally* mutually exclusive?

Do you all feel that the writing of lyrics
takes away from the music instead of adding to it?

Do lyrics cheapen the music and make microtonal
familiar, *not* different?

If lyrics similar to these were in a microtonal
piece, wouldn't it just be another pop song?

40 Boys in 40 Nights (by The Donnas)

Spendin every night in a different state
Spendin every night with a different date
I come into town and have a look around
And then I find a guy who wants to get down

I got boys all over the road
I got boys helpin me unload

[Chorus]
Forty boys in forty nights
I got no time to see the sights

Lyrics can be moving too (some would say sappy)

Some sad and moving lyrics here:

Calling God (by Jann Arden)

Every leaf on every tree
And every drop of water in the sea
Every grain of weathered sand
That smashes itself onto dry land
Every stone and every petal, everything that's elemental
Every tear that hits the ground
Everything that's lost and never found
Every hill dreams of a mountain
Every heart a bleeding fountain
Every wish and every prayer
That always seems to disappear

Without these lryics there would just
be a empty melody.

Comments welcome,

-Stephen

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

I think that Scott Walker like lyrics would work well in the context of microtones, but he pretty much sings such things

stephenszpak wrote:
> I don't read every post or download every
> song here. Maybe it's just me...
>
> Is it true that few microtonal compositions
> have lyrics?
>
> If true, why?
>
> Is the writing of lyrics and the compositon
> of music *generally* mutually exclusive?
>
> Do you all feel that the writing of lyrics
> takes away from the music instead of adding to it?
>
> Do lyrics cheapen the music and make microtonal
> familiar, *not* different?
>
> If lyrics similar to these were in a microtonal
> piece, wouldn't it just be another pop song?
>
> 40 Boys in 40 Nights (by The Donnas)
>
> > Spendin every night in a different state > Spendin every night with a different date > I come into town and have a look around > And then I find a guy who wants to get down >
> I got boys all over the road > I got boys helpin me unload >
> [Chorus]
> Forty boys in forty nights > I got no time to see the sights >
> Lyrics can be moving too (some would say sappy)
>
> Some sad and moving lyrics here:
>
> Calling God (by Jann Arden)
>
> Every leaf on every tree
> And every drop of water in the sea
> Every grain of weathered sand
> That smashes itself onto dry land
> Every stone and every petal, everything that's elemental
> Every tear that hits the ground
> Everything that's lost and never found
> Every hill dreams of a mountain
> Every heart a bleeding fountain
> Every wish and every prayer
> That always seems to disappear
>
> Without these lryics there would just
> be a empty melody.
>
> Comments welcome,
>
> -Stephen
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

http://www.the-drift.net/

stephenszpak wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> > wrote:
> >> I'm not familiar with him. I don't think special lyrics
>> > are needed as long as the song is a song (if you know
> what I mean).
>
> Of course I don't write lyrics myself...
>
> Waking Up (by Elastica)
>
> I'd work very hard but I'm lazy > I can't take the pressure and it's starting to show > In my heart you know that it pains me > A life of leisure is no life you know >
> I'd work very hard but I'm lazy > I've got a lot of songs but they're all in my head. > I'll get a guitar and a lover who pays me > If I can't be a star I won't get out of bed. >
> -Stephen
>
>
> >
> > >> I think that Scott Walker like lyrics would work well in the >> > context of > >> microtones, but he pretty much sings such things
>>
>>
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

THE SEVENTH SEAL

Anybody seen a knight pass this way
I saw him playing chess with Death yesterday
His crusade was a search for God and they say
It's been a along way to carry on

Anybody hear of plague in this town
The town I've left behind was burned to the ground
A young girl on a stake her face framed in flames cried
I'm not a witch God knows my name

The knight he watched with fear
He needed to know
He ran where he might feel God's breath
And in the misty church
He knelt to confess
The face within the booth was Mr. Death

My life's a vain pursuit of meaningless smiles
Why can't God touch me with a sign
Perhaps there's no one there answered the booth
And Death hid within his cloak and smiled

This morning I played chess with Death said the knight
We played that he might grant me time
My bishop and my knight will shatter his flanks
And still I might feel God's heart in mine

And through confession's grille Death's laughter was heard
The knight cried No you've cheated me!
But still I'll find a way
We'll meet once again and once again
Continue to play

They met within the woods the knight his squire and friends
And Death said now the game shall end
The final move was made
The knight hung his head
And said you've won I've nothing left to play

The minstrel filled with visions sang to his love
To look against the stormy sky
The knight his squire and friends
Their hands held as one
Solemnly danced toward the dawn

His hourglass in his hand his scythe by his side
The master Death he leads them on
The rain will wash away the tears from their faces
And as the thunder cracked they were gone

(Dedicated to the Neo-Stalinst Regime)
(Engel)

I seen a hand, I seen a vision
It was reaching through the clouds, To risk a dream

A shadow cross the sky
And it crushed into the ground, Just like a beast

The old man's back again
The old man's back again

I seen a woman, standing in the snow
She was silent as she watched them take her man

Teardrops burned her cheeks
for she thought she'd heard, The shadow had left this land

The old man's back again
The old man's back again

The crowds just gathered, their faces turned away
And they queue all day like dragons of disgust

All the women whispering
Wondering just what these young hot-heads want of us
And entres vie he cries

with eyes that ring like chimes
His anti-worlds go spinning through his head
He burns them in his dreams
for half awake they may as well be dead

The old man's back again
I see he's back again

I see a soldier, He's standing in the rain
For him there's no old man to walk behind

Devoured by his pain
bewildered by the faces who pass him by

He'd like another name the one he's got's a curse
These people cried
Why can't they understand
His mother called him Ivan then she died

The old man's back again
The old man's back again
I can see him back again

stephenszpak wrote:
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...> > wrote:
>
> Thanks Kraig. I see lyrics. I don't hear any. Is this
> the idea or am I not clicking on something I should?
>
> -Stephen
> >> http://www.the-drift.net/
>>
>>
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
> -- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island <http://anaphoria.com/>
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU <http://www.kxlu.com/main.html> 88.9 FM Wed 8-9 pm Los Angeles

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
wrote:
>
Kraig

Music and lyrics go together.

{This isn't always true. 'Taps' doesn't need lyrics of course.}

'The body without the spirit is dead.' (New Testament)
Usually I think the two, music and lyrics, have to exist
together. Else there is half a song.

I've been listening to Pandora (internet radio) a lot
lately. Hearing songs and groups I didn't know existed.
Maybe someday I will speak in song lyrics only. That
would be weird huh?

There is too much here for me. I can see the first one is
about the inevitability
of death.

'This morning I played chess with Death said the knight
We played that he might grant me time'

Until then...

This is more my speed, at least more up-beat anyway,

Anthem by Superchic(k)

We are fire inside
We are an army asleep
We are a people awaking to follow their dreams
We don't have time for your games
We have our own goals to score
We have trophies to win
Instead of being one of yours

-Stephen

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@...>
wrote:
>
Kraig

Tried to get a discussion going in Meta about
the music of the future. We'll our music be remembered?
things like that

It sort of relates to the first song. (well, a little)

/metatuning/topicId_10859.html#10859

Here is some funny music:

/metatuning/topicId_10883.html#10883

The phrase "the seventh seal" comes from the Book of
Revelation as I'm sure you know.

Revelation Chapter 8 verse 1 :

And when He broke the seventh seal, there was slience in
heaven for about half a hour.

Heading out now, until Wednesday.

-Stephen

> THE SEVENTH SEAL
>
> Anybody seen a knight pass this way
> I saw him playing chess with Death...

🔗Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@...>

Hi Stephen,

On Sun Jun 4, 2006, stephen szpak wrote:
>
> I don't read every post or download every
> song here. Maybe it's just me...

Maybe! ;-)

> Is it true that few microtonal compositions
> have lyrics?

Depends on the composer, and on your definition
of "microtonal".

My impression is that most of the microtonal
composers *on this list* write, in sum, more
instrumental music than vocal (accompanied
or not) music.

If your "microtonal" includes any or all of:
- blues
- jazz
- rock
- gospel
- barbershop
- JI
- meantone
you'll definitely include many musicians who
make microtonal songs.

I wouldn't put too many of:
- pop
- showtunes
- evergreen ballads
in the microtonal camp.

> If true, why?

Smaller and unusual intervals require more
work on the part of singers - and all other
performers - than does the common tuning
of our time, 12EDO. It may take a guitarist
a year to become familiar enough with his
new microtonal stick to be able to make
music that he or she considers worth sharing.
So, unfamiliarity and the extra training re-
quirements combine to keep microtonal
performance mostly on those instruments
that both are well adapted to microtonality
AND are habitually used microtonally. Eg,
it's going to be easier to get micro perfor-
mances from a fiddler than a guitarist, every-
thing else being equal.

> Is the writing of lyrics and the compositon
> of music *generally* mutually exclusive?

I can't speak for others. I write a lot of poetry
and a lot of music. Some of the music calls for
words, which I may then (or sometimes, years
later, as in 17-1-98 06) provide. Some of the
words come with a tune, the both being so
intricately combined I often can't tell which idea
I had first. Some of the music comes from a
thought experiment - "what if I did that, and
that, and that?" - and this music most commonly
lends itself to instrumental expression and elab-
oration (but not always).

> Do you all feel that the writing of lyrics
> takes away from the music instead of adding to it?

Let me offer you, tongue slightly in cheek:

"Yahya's Laws of Musical Lyricism":
1. There is music for any lyrics
(but you may not want to hear it).

2. There are lyrics for any music
(but they may be damned hard to sing).

Or another answer:
"Would you like fries with that?"

IOW, it's a matter of taste.

Finally, I think the Principle of Requisite
Variety applies here - let's have something
that's complex enough to be interesting,
AND simple enough not to be confusing.
(A difficult balance, and one whose inter-
pretation must change with circumstances.)

> Do lyrics cheapen the music and make microtonal
> familiar, *not* different?

This question seems to contain a hidden
assumption that the value of microtonal
music lies purely or largely in its novelty.
If that were so, I don't think I'd bother
with it. I want better, not newer.

However, if your aim is to produce music
that is unutterably alien, let no-one utter
it ...

> If lyrics similar to these were in a microtonal
> piece, wouldn't it just be another pop song?
>
> 40 Boys in 40 Nights (by The Donnas)

Lyrically, yes; musically, no.

[snip]
> Calling God (by Jann Arden)
[snip]
> Without these lryics there would just
> be a empty melody.

Well then, the melody must be banal in the
extreme and obviously benefits by association
with the lyrics, no matter how soppy they are! ;-)

> Comments welcome,

I tried ...

Regards,
Yahya

--
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🔗hstraub64 <hstraub64@...>

🔗daniel_anthony_stearns <daniel_anthony_stearns@...>

🔗hstraub64 <hstraub64@...>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
<yahya@...> wrote:
>

Yahya

+++++++++++ Thanks for responding. (more below)

> Hi Stephen,
>
> >
>
> > Is it true that few microtonal compositions
> > have lyrics?
>
> Depends on the composer, and on your definition
> of "microtonal".

+++++++++++ I generaly think of anything that is
not 12 EDO, has to be microtonal. It
sounds like that is incorrect.

>
> My impression is that most of the microtonal
> composers *on this list* write, in sum, more
> instrumental music than vocal (accompanied
> or not) music.
>
> If your "microtonal" includes any or all of:
> - blues
> - jazz
> - rock
> - gospel
> - barbershop
> - JI
> - meantone
> you'll definitely include many musicians who
> make microtonal songs.

++++++++++ I like some rock.

> > I wouldn't put too many of:
> - pop
> - showtunes
> - evergreen ballads
> in the microtonal camp.
>
>
> > If true, why?
>
> Smaller and unusual intervals require more
> work on the part of singers - and all other
> performers - than does the common tuning
> of our time, 12EDO. It may take a guitarist
> a year to become familiar enough with his
> new microtonal stick to be able to make
> music that he or she considers worth sharing.
> So, unfamiliarity and the extra training re-
> quirements combine to keep microtonal
> performance mostly on those instruments
> that both are well adapted to microtonality
> AND are habitually used microtonally. Eg,
> it's going to be easier to get micro perfor-
> mances from a fiddler than a guitarist, every-
> thing else being equal.
>
++++++++ In other words 'it's hard'. Playing in
24 (My scale, almost true EDO) has been
worth it. It took some time, but I got
what I wanted. I hear chord progressions
few people hear (as a percentage of the
whole population).

> > Is the writing of lyrics and the compositon
> > of music *generally* mutually exclusive?
>
> I can't speak for others. I write a lot of poetry
> and a lot of music. Some of the music calls for
> words, which I may then (or sometimes, years
> later, as in 17-1-98 06) provide. Some of the
> words come with a tune, the both being so
> intricately combined I often can't tell which idea
> I had first. Some of the music comes from a
> thought experiment - "what if I did that, and
> that, and that?" - and this music most commonly
> lends itself to instrumental expression and elab-
> oration (but not always).
>
>
> > Do you all feel that the writing of lyrics
> > takes away from the music instead of adding to it?
>
> Let me offer you, tongue slightly in cheek:
>
> "Yahya's Laws of Musical Lyricism":
> 1. There is music for any lyrics
> (but you may not want to hear it).
>
> 2. There are lyrics for any music
> (but they may be damned hard to sing).
>
> Or another answer:
> "Would you like fries with that?"

>
> IOW, it's a matter of taste.
>
> Finally, I think the Principle of Requisite
> Variety applies here - let's have something
> that's complex enough to be interesting,
> AND simple enough not to be confusing.

++++ You mean something familiar yet different?
Like a Australian I guess.

> (A difficult balance, and one whose inter-
> pretation must change with circumstances.)
>
>
> > Do lyrics cheapen the music and make microtonal
> > familiar, *not* different?
>
> This question seems to contain a hidden
> assumption that the value of microtonal
> music lies purely or largely in its novelty.
> If that were so, I don't think I'd bother
> with it. I want better, not newer.

++++++++ I assume (perhaps inappropiately) that
some microtonal composers don't want to
write, for example pop, merely because
they want to be different, for the sake
of being different.
>
> However, if your aim is to produce music
> that is unutterably alien, let no-one utter
> it ...

++++++++ I'm more conventional.
>
> > If lyrics similar to these were in a microtonal
> > piece, wouldn't it just be another pop song?
> >
> > 40 Boys in 40 Nights (by The Donnas)
>
> Lyrically, yes; musically, no.

++++++++++ Yes I know. Rhetorical question.

+++++
>
> [snip]
> > Calling God (by Jann Arden)
> [snip]
> > Without these lryics there would just
> > be a empty melody.
>
> Well then, the melody must be banal in the
> extreme and obviously benefits by association
> with the lyrics, no matter how soppy they are! ;-)
>
++++++++++ By 'empty melody', I meant a melody without
words. A meaningless melody. The melody could
be strangely beautiful. Sorry for the confusion.

> > Comments welcome,
>
> I tried ...

+++++++++ You did good.

> Regards,
> Yahya
>

🔗yahya_melb <yahya@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Szpak wrote:
...
> > > Is it true that few microtonal compositions have lyrics?
...
> > > If true, why?
> >
> > Smaller and unusual intervals require more
> > work on the part of singers - and all other
...
> > it's going to be easier to get micro perfor-
> > mances from a fiddler than a guitarist, every-
> > thing else being equal.
> >
> ++++++++ In other words 'it's hard'. Playing in
> 24 (My scale, almost true EDO) has been
> worth it. It took some time, but I got
> what I wanted. I hear chord progressions
> few people hear (as a percentage of the
> whole population).

OK! Please show me some of these progressions?

...
> > Finally, I think the Principle of Requisite
> > Variety applies here - let's have something
> > that's complex enough to be interesting,
> > AND simple enough not to be confusing.
>
> ++++ You mean something familiar yet different?
> Like a Australian I guess.

Or an American ... ;-)

Regards,
Yahya

🔗brentcarson <brentishere@...>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" <yahya@...>
wrote:
>

Yahya

Please see Yahya1 and Yahya2 in files section.

Yahya1 goes:

C minor >>> Ex minor >>> F#x
tonic is 0 then 460.88 then 660.88

Yahya2 goes:

C >>> Ax >>> Fx >>> D#

tonic is 0 then 960.88 560.88 300.00

Files will be deleted in a few days.

Moderators: Maybe we could save the last
few bytes in the files section
for temp stuff like this???

-Stephen

> > ++++++++ In other words 'it's hard'. Playing in
> > 24 (My scale, almost true EDO) has been
> > worth it. It took some time, but I got
> > what I wanted. I hear chord progressions
> > few people hear (as a percentage of the
> > whole population).
>
> OK! Please show me some of these progressions?
>
>> Yahya
>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Yahya Abdal-Aziz"
<yahya@...> wrote:
>
> Yahya

1. There is music for any lyrics

2. There are lyrics for any music

Maybe 3. might be:

Lyrics and music must be interwoven.

In other words, the lyrics must be appropriate
to the melody IF the melody DEMANDS it.

...the melody must be appropriate to the
lyrics IF the lyrics DEMAND it.

Maybe there's a better way of saying it(?)

With some melodies, almost any lyrics are OK,
and the other way round to I guess.

The first movement of cancion y danza is
definitly sad, while the second is brighter.

http://www.akjmusic.com/audio/cancion_y_danza_8.ogg

-Stephen

>
>>
> "Yahya's Laws of Musical Lyricism":
> 1. There is music for any lyrics
> (but you may not want to hear it).
>
> 2. There are lyrics for any music
> (but they may be damned hard to sing).
>
> Or another answer:
> "Would you like fries with that?"
>
> IOW, it's a matter of taste.
>

🔗yahya_melb <yahya@...>

Stephen,

I like the sound of both.

But I don't know why!

Care to refresh me on the exact scale
(and the note labels you're using)?

Regards,
Yahya

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "stephenszpak"
<stephen_szpak@...> wrote:
>
> Yahya
>
> Please see Yahya1 and Yahya2 in files section.
>
> Yahya1 goes:
>
> C minor >>> Ex minor >>> F#x
> tonic is 0 then 460.88 then 660.88
>
> Yahya2 goes:
>
> C >>> Ax >>> Fx >>> D#
>
> tonic is 0 then 960.88 560.88 300.00
>
> Files will be deleted in a few days.
>
> Moderators: Maybe we could save the last
> few bytes in the files section
> for temp stuff like this???
>
> -Stephen
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" <yahya@>
> wrote:
> >
>> > > ++++++++ In other words 'it's hard'. Playing in
> > > 24 (My scale, almost true EDO) has been
> > > worth it. It took some time, but I got
> > > what I wanted. I hear chord progressions
> > > few people hear (as a percentage of the
> > > whole population).
> >
> > OK! Please show me some of these progressions?
> >
> >> Yahya
> >
>

🔗stephenszpak <stephen_szpak@...>

--- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "yahya_melb" <yahya@...>
wrote:

Yahya

I copied and pasted the scale into this message. It didn't
come out perfect, but it's there:

/makemicromusic/topicId_13581.html#13602?l=1

I don't use the note labels below exactly.

C is 0 (obviously)

Cx is a C plus extra, so 60.88

C# is C# so 100

C#x is C# plus extra, so 160.88

It should really look like this:

_________________________________________

C
_____________

x
C
_________________

#
C
_________________

x
#
C
______________________________

This actualy came out better than I thought.
I should probably stick to this way on-line.

-Stephen

======================================================
======================================================
======================================================

>
> Stephen,
>
> I like the sound of both.
>
> But I don't know why!
>
> Care to refresh me on the exact scale
> (and the note labels you're using)?
>
> Regards,
> Yahya
>
>
> --- In MakeMicroMusic@yahoogroups.com, "stephenszpak"
> <stephen_szpak@> wrote:
> >
> > Yahya
> >
> > Please see Yahya1 and Yahya2 in files section.
> >
> > Yahya1 goes:
> >
> > C minor >>> Ex minor >>> F#x
> > tonic is 0 then 460.88 then 660.88
> >
> > Yahya2 goes:
> >
> > C >>> Ax >>> Fx >>> D#
> >
> > tonic is 0 then 960.88 560.88 300.00
> >