A "sweet little thing" to guess

Hi tuners,

I think you'll very quickly hear what this has to do with tunings. I'm simply letting those of you who like to take part in this "test" to do so, it's not very important how many responses I get.
My questions are these:
#1. When do you think this music was composed?
#2. When do you think this crackling noisy distorted low-quality recording was made?
#3. What instruments do you think are playing there?
Here's the link:
www.sendspace.com/file/iv1cqi

Petr

Petr Pa��zek wrote:
> Hi tuners,
>
> I think you'll very quickly hear what this has to do with tunings. I'm > simply letting those of you who like to take part in this "test" to do so, > it's not very important how many responses I get.
> My questions are these:
> #1. When do you think this music was composed?
> #2. When do you think this crackling noisy distorted low-quality recording > was made?
> #3. What instruments do you think are playing there?
> Here's the link:
> www.sendspace.com/file/iv1cqi
>
> Petr

I'm not that good at determining tunings by ear (it sounds meantone-ish), but I believe that's a fortepiano from c. 1750 or earlier, and it's an early Classical piece. Scarlotti maybe?

~D.

I wrote:
> Petr Pa��zek wrote:
> >> Hi tuners,
>>
>> I think you'll very quickly hear what this has to do with tunings. I'm >> simply letting those of you who like to take part in this "test" to do so, >> it's not very important how many responses I get.
>> My questions are these:
>> #1. When do you think this music was composed?
>> #2. When do you think this crackling noisy distorted low-quality recording >> was made?
>> #3. What instruments do you think are playing there?
>> Here's the link:
>> www.sendspace.com/file/iv1cqi
>>
>> Petr
>> >
> I'm not that good at determining tunings by ear (it sounds > meantone-ish), but I believe that's a fortepiano from c. 1750 or > earlier, and it's an early Classical piece. Scarlotti maybe?

I take that back; it's a five-octave instrument, which would be more Mozart's time, i.e. after 1750. ~D.

2008/11/4 Petr Pařízek <p.parizek@chello.cz>:
> Hi tuners,
>
> I think you'll very quickly hear what this has to do with tunings. I'm
> simply letting those of you who like to take part in this "test" to do so,
> it's not very important how many responses I get.
> My questions are these:
> #1. When do you think this music was composed?
> #2. When do you think this crackling noisy distorted low-quality recording
> was made?
> #3. What instruments do you think are playing there?
> Here's the link:
> www.sendspace.com/file/iv1cqi

I'll guess without listening that the ancient recording was made last night ;-)

Graham

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Paøízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>
> Hi tuners,
>
> I think you'll very quickly hear what this has to do with tunings.
I'm
> simply letting those of you who like to take part in this "test" to
do so,
> it's not very important how many responses I get.
> My questions are these:
> #1. When do you think this music was composed?
> #2. When do you think this crackling noisy distorted low-quality
recording
> was made?
> #3. What instruments do you think are playing there?
> Here's the link:
> www.sendspace.com/file/iv1cqi
>
> Petr
>

Izotope Vinyl, sampled piano. The music was written the other day, or
a couple hundred years ago by a musician with a time-link to 20th
century pop music. :-)

Ahoj, Petre,

1. It looks like NEO style, a composer with some knowledge of general
Baroque idioms (4th harmonic progressions up and down, hemiola...),
but imitation is not so perfect, more superficial... Or some naive
amateur but very creative and original composer who even could live
in 18th century, but this is rather unlikely. Like Scarlatti, but I
know his works well so I don't think it's him. I don't think it could
be somebody in 19th century, such fresh sounding music seems to me
more contemporary, like intentional retro. But it I don't count
polyphonic lithurgical music, Baroque retro started with Debussy and
Ravel... Of course Reicha could do such music, but for sure he didn't
do this. Also triplets against tuplets, quarter triplets against
four, or four against sextuplets from the second movement don't
appear in this form in Baroque. In formal aspects it differs from
original music as well. Such periods and melodic motifs were not used
in those times. This sound more like a work of some neoclassically
oriented minimalist. Too mechanic progressions...
In tuning - some kind of just temperament? Black keys are rather low
which has in result

2. Noise looks like a very artificial noise, which differs a lot from
natural vinyl noise, besides clicks are missing. Imitation is not
perfect because frequency curve is different from old records, too
much bass and highs. It sounds more just like a combination of
background noise with MIDI record (rhythm are too perfect to be
played in real time by human performer, except the second movement
with not well synchronized tracks, probably intentionally). Record
has some small distortion and reverb, which were probably added
artificially from DSP, not from low quality recording machine and
natural space in the room.

3. It sound like a piano combined with hammer piano. Some notes sound
doubled.

And now I wonder what it is. Can be your composition :-) or some of
colleague from your generation. To me it looks like he/she should
study more hard about Baroque music to obtain better results in style
imitation. But this is not so bad in my opinion. Of course I can be
totally wrong in everything.

Daniel Forro

On 4 Nov 2008, at 5:59 PM, Petr Pařízek wrote:

> Hi tuners,
>
> I think you'll very quickly hear what this has to do with tunings. I'm
> simply letting those of you who like to take part in this "test" to
> do so,
> it's not very important how many responses I get.
> My questions are these:
> #1. When do you think this music was composed?
> #2. When do you think this crackling noisy distorted low-quality
> recording
> was made?
> #3. What instruments do you think are playing there?
> Here's the link:
> www.sendspace.com/file/iv1cqi
>
> Petr
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hello to all of you, and thanks especially to D. F. for his suggestions.

In a certain sense, more of you got it right than I assumed. And, to D. F. again, you were right - it's mine. :-D You see, this is how we got to know each other after I was your student for a few years. :-) - I hope you don't mind if I tell you about the interesting story that is linked to this music.

I recorded the piece at the end of March 2004, which was about three months before I finished my conservatory studies. Before it all began, I made a CD full of clean sawtooth tones tuned to something like 7/25-comma meantone (from Eb to G#) and asked one piano tuning teacher if he could retune one of the upride pianos to this for me. He was so kind that he did it and then I recorded two audio tracks with this retuned instrument on an good-old-fashioned 4-track tape recorder -- one was played normaly, the other was played twice as fast (that's exactly why it sounds like an old pianoforte). Later, I added the distortion to the sound and removed the higher frequencies. Then, on April the 1st, I decided to do a joke. I met our music history teacher and said to her that I had heard some music on the radio and that I would be interested if she knew who might be its author. When I played the first movement from the tape, she started singing along and after a while she said: "Well, Petr, you know what that is? These are Dowland's variations." I was out of words. :-D But I said that there was a slow movement as well and so she asked me to keep it playing. When she heard the slow part, whe said with a very surprised voice: "It's strange, now it's suddenly sounding like something from Germany! But I doubt that a German would have written variations on Dowland." When the last movement ended, she just said: "Well, I'm not sure who it was. But I think it must have been someone of the French clavecinists living even before Couperin; you know, there is just very little ornamentation there" I thanked her, smiled, and didn't let her know the truth until the end of April. When I finally told her that it was mine, she said: "Nice, I'm curious when you'll come to me with another Baroque-like piece -- but you won't fool me next time, right?" -- But anyway, later, when some of my school mates heard about the story, many said to me: "Before you, noone has ever made such a constructive April joke at this school."

Okay, that's it ... Now back to scales again. :-D

Petr

PS: D. F., I'm listening to your variations on the Czech anthem -- I'll write offlist later.

Petr Pa��zek wrote:
> Hello to all of you, and thanks especially to D. F. for his suggestions.
>
> In a certain sense, more of you got it right than I assumed. And, to D. F. > I didn't; I was completely fooled; I could've sworn it was an early piano (I was half-asleep when I heard it).

But you got me thinking - I'd like to have 31-tet fortepiano myself. I like their sound; they sound somewhere between a modern piano and a harpsichord, and since they're simpler and less massive, you could put more notes in an octave.

~D.

Petr Pa��zek wrote:
> Hi tuners,
> > I think you'll very quickly hear what this has to do with tunings. I'm > simply letting those of you who like to take part in this "test" to do so, > it's not very important how many responses I get.
> My questions are these:
> #1. When do you think this music was composed?

Early 18th century?

> #2. When do you think this crackling noisy distorted low-quality recording > was made?

It could be a modern recording with a bad microphone cable. It doesn't sound quite like the sort of noise on old 78rpm recordings. Could be a wax cylinder, or one of the earlier tinfoil recordings. I'll go with the wax cylinder guess -- late 19th century?

> #3. What instruments do you think are playing there?

Clearly some kind of piano, but one a bit different from a modern design.

To Herman:

You'll find the answer here:
/tuning/topicId_78986.html#78993

Petr

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Paøízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
>
>
> I recorded the piece at the end of March 2004, which was about three
months
> before I finished my conservatory studies. Before it all began, I
made a CD
> full of clean sawtooth tones tuned to something like 7/25-comma
meantone
> (from Eb to G#) and asked one piano tuning teacher if he could
retune one of
> the upride pianos to this for me. He was so kind that he did it and
then I
> recorded two audio tracks with this retuned instrument on an
> good-old-fashioned 4-track tape recorder -- one was played normaly, the
> other was played twice as fast (that's exactly why it sounds like an
old
> pianoforte).

Well you've got the style pretty much exactly down, - I mean the style
of Early 20th-Century Pseudo-Baroque, 'Albinoni's Adagio', 'Holberg
Suite', Ancient Airs and Dances etc. etc. Vague approximations of
Baroque textures and rhythms with an oversimplified sort-of-modal
harmonic basis ... so that teacher who spotted 'Dowland's variations'
can't really tell any student anything about musical style. Harsh but
true. I mean, that rigid tonal sequence right at the beginning, the
absolute rhythmic monotony of the first movement, dead giveaways for a
competent student imitation on the premise 'Baroque music is simple
cheerful and tonal except for noodly ornamentation and a general air
of gloom in the slow movements'... In the
clasical-academic-conservatory context the result was obviously a
great success!
~~~T~~~

I just came late to this party.

What a sheer, excellent pleasure it was, listening to that

distortion, strange tuning and all--

great stuff

I could listen to that all day

On Nov 5, 2008, at 8:34 AM, Tom Dent wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Petr Paøízek <p.parizek@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I recorded the piece at the end of March 2004, which was about three
> months
> > before I finished my conservatory studies. Before it all began, I
> made a CD
> > full of clean sawtooth tones tuned to something like 7/25-comma
> meantone
> > (from Eb to G#) and asked one piano tuning teacher if he could
> retune one of
> > the upride pianos to this for me. He was so kind that he did it and
> then I
> > recorded two audio tracks with this retuned instrument on an
> > good-old-fashioned 4-track tape recorder -- one was played
> normaly, the
> > other was played twice as fast (that's exactly why it sounds like an
> old
> > pianoforte).
>
> Well you've got the style pretty much exactly down, - I mean the style
> of Early 20th-Century Pseudo-Baroque, 'Albinoni's Adagio', 'Holberg
> Suite', Ancient Airs and Dances etc. etc. Vague approximations of
> Baroque textures and rhythms with an oversimplified sort-of-modal
> harmonic basis ... so that teacher who spotted 'Dowland's variations'
> can't really tell any student anything about musical style. Harsh but
> true. I mean, that rigid tonal sequence right at the beginning, the
> absolute rhythmic monotony of the first movement, dead giveaways for a
> competent student imitation on the premise 'Baroque music is simple
> cheerful and tonal except for noodly ornamentation and a general air
> of gloom in the slow movements'... In the
> clasical-academic-conservatory context the result was obviously a
> great success!
> ~~~T~~~
>
>
>