Notational Standard?

Hello All,

I am interested in composing some music in extended just intonation and I am wondering if there is a standard of notation for the accidentals. I am familiar with Ben Johnston's system (is this standard?) and I have the text of Joseph Monzo's book, but no graphics so I don't know what he has proposed.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeremy Hunt

>Hello All,
>
>I am interested in composing some music in extended just intonation and
>I am wondering if there is a standard of notation for the accidentals.
>I am familiar with Ben Johnston's system (is this standard?) and I have
>the text of Joseph Monzo's book, but no graphics so I don't know what
>he has proposed.
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeremy Hunt

Hi Jeremy,

There is no single standard, but there are several systems used by
more than one person. You're already familiar with Ben Johnston's,
which is one of the most popular. There is also a system by Ezra
Sims, which IIRC is used by Joe Maneri, and others. I'm not sure if
it has a name other than "Sims' notation".

Johnny Reinhard advocates standard notation with cents deviation
written above the notes.

Joe Monzo advocates something he calls HEWM...

http://sonic-arts.org/dict/hewm.htm

...I don't know if anything's ever been composed with it.

Last but certainly not least, George Secor and Dave Keenan, two
theorists on this list (and the related tuning-math list), have
been working for several years on the design of a notation system
that's purpose-built to be a universal standard. It's called
"Sagittal"...

http://dkeenan.com/sagittal/

List member and composer Joe Pehrson uses, IIRC, a hybrid of Sims
and Sagittal notation. Maybe he can chime in with more details.

-Carl

May I humbly add my Spectral idea on that list? It is based on using colored accidentals in order to indicate subtle nuances of pitch.

Regards,
Ozan Yarman

From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 22 Kasım 2004 Pazartesi 20:17
Subject: Re: [tuning] Notational Standard?

>Hello All,
>
>I am interested in composing some music in extended just intonation and
>I am wondering if there is a standard of notation for the accidentals.
>I am familiar with Ben Johnston's system (is this standard?) and I have
>the text of Joseph Monzo's book, but no graphics so I don't know what
>he has proposed.
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeremy Hunt

Hi Jeremy,

There is no single standard, but there are several systems used by
more than one person. You're already familiar with Ben Johnston's,
which is one of the most popular. There is also a system by Ezra
Sims, which IIRC is used by Joe Maneri, and others. I'm not sure if
it has a name other than "Sims' notation".

Johnny Reinhard advocates standard notation with cents deviation
written above the notes.

Joe Monzo advocates something he calls HEWM...

http://sonic-arts.org/dict/hewm.htm

...I don't know if anything's ever been composed with it.

Last but certainly not least, George Secor and Dave Keenan, two
theorists on this list (and the related tuning-math list), have
been working for several years on the design of a notation system
that's purpose-built to be a universal standard. It's called
"Sagittal"...

http://dkeenan.com/sagittal/

List member and composer Joe Pehrson uses, IIRC, a hybrid of Sims
and Sagittal notation. Maybe he can chime in with more details.

-Carl

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 - Release Date: 15.11.2004

---

File has not been scanned

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.797 / Virus Database: 541 - Release Date: 15.11.2004

>May I humbly add my Spectral idea on that list? It is based on using
>colored accidentals in order to indicate subtle nuances of pitch.

Yes! But not all list members can get attachments. Do you have
web site describing your proposal? If not, you can put your file
in the "files" section of the list, and then post a link to it.

It's best if you create a folder for yourself in the file area before
posting a file there.

Here's an example of the url you can then send back to the list...

/tuning/files/carl/keyboard.png

-Carl

Thank you Carl! I have added the fıle to this adress

/OzanWorks/?yguid=164192015

In the files section, you will find the document as well as some of my compositions. Feel free to download any you like.

Cordially,
Ozan Yarman

----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 22 Kasım 2004 Pazartesi 21:37
Subject: Re: [tuning] Notational Standard?

>May I humbly add my Spectral idea on that list? It is based on using
>colored accidentals in order to indicate subtle nuances of pitch.

Yes! But not all list members can get attachments. Do you have
web site describing your proposal? If not, you can put your file
in the "files" section of the list, and then post a link to it.

It's best if you create a folder for yourself in the file area before
posting a file there.

Here's an example of the url you can then send back to the list...

/tuning/files/carl/keyboard.png

-Carl

>Thank you Carl! I have added the fýle to this adress
>
>/OzanWorks/?yguid=164192015
>
>In the files section, you will find the document as well as some of my
>compositions. Feel free to download any you like.
>
>Cordially,
>Ozan Yarman

Thanks, Ozan.

Unfortunately, one has to be a member of your group to see that file.
I joined, but it saves time for folks here if you post it here.

-Carl

Dear Carl, there is no free space left in the tuning list archives for me to upload the document there. Sorry for the inconvenience.

For those who missed the show, here is the adress for the (as yet incomplete) Spectral Notation proposal:

/OzanWorks/

I would some comments on my compositions too while you are at it.

All the best,
Ozan Yarman

----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 22 Kasım 2004 Pazartesi 22:13
Subject: Re: [tuning] Notational Standard?

>Thank you Carl! I have added the fıle to this adress
>
>/OzanWorks/?yguid=164192015
>
>In the files section, you will find the document as well as some of my
>compositions. Feel free to download any you like.
>
>Cordially,
>Ozan Yarman

Thanks, Ozan.

Unfortunately, one has to be a member of your group to see that file.
I joined, but it saves time for folks here if you post it here.

-Carl

>Dear Carl, there is no free space left in the tuning list
>archives for me to upload the document there. Sorry for the
>inconvenience.

It's not your fault. This is a constant problem with
Yahoo groups.

>For those who missed the show, here is the adress for the (as
>yet incomplete) Spectral Notation proposal:
>
> /OzanWorks/
>
>
>I would some comments on my compositions too while you are at it.

I tried to download the sound files, but you've exceeded Yahoo's
download limit. Aaron Johnson knows something about how this
works -- I think it's a daily limit.

-Carl

>>For those who missed the show, here is the adress for the (as
>>yet incomplete) Spectral Notation proposal:
>>
>> /OzanWorks/
>>
>>
>>I would some comments on my compositions too while you are at it.
>
>I tried to download the sound files, but you've exceeded Yahoo's
>download limit. Aaron Johnson knows something about how this
>works -- I think it's a daily limit.

Ozan, have you tried Yahoo Briefcase...

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/

...?

It allows you to share files with anyone who has a Yahoo account
(which includes, I think, all Yahoo Groups users). You get 30MB
of space for free, and I asked them about download limits...

>>Is there a download bandwidth quote
>>associated with Yahoo! Briefcase? Your
>>docs don't mention any, but the Yahoo!
>>Groups "files" feature, for example,
>>has a download quota.
>
>Hello,
>
>Thank you for writing to Yahoo! Briefcase.
>
>We do not have a download bandwidth quota in Yahoo! Briefcase.
>
>If we can be of assistance in another matter, please let us know
>by replying to this email.
>
>Thank you again for contacting Yahoo! Customer Care.
>
>Regards,
>
>Leon
>Yahoo! Customer Care

-Carl

Finally, I believe everyone will be able to access my files without further ado:

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/ozanyarman/lst?.dir=/My+Documents

Thank you very much for your assistance Carl! I am eager to receive your valuable input on the Spectral Notation as well as my compositions.

Cordially,
Ozan
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 23 Kasım 2004 Salı 19:29
Subject: Re: [tuning] Notational Standard?

>Dear Carl, there is no free space left in the tuning list
>archives for me to upload the document there. Sorry for the
>inconvenience.

It's not your fault. This is a constant problem with
Yahoo groups.

>For those who missed the show, here is the adress for the (as
>yet incomplete) Spectral Notation proposal:
>
> /OzanWorks/
>
>
>I would some comments on my compositions too while you are at it.

I tried to download the sound files, but you've exceeded Yahoo's
download limit. Aaron Johnson knows something about how this
works -- I think it's a daily limit.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_56292.html#56293
>
> Last but certainly not least, George Secor and Dave Keenan, two
> theorists on this list (and the related tuning-math list), have
> been working for several years on the design of a notation system
> that's purpose-built to be a universal standard. It's called
> "Sagittal"...
>
> http://dkeenan.com/sagittal/
>
> List member and composer Joe Pehrson uses, IIRC, a hybrid of Sims
> and Sagittal notation. Maybe he can chime in with more details.
>
> -Carl

***Hi Carl,

This is correct. Of course, the notation I use describes *72-tET*
not "strict" JI. I've been using a hybrid called "Sagittal-Wilson"
which is something like the Joe Monzo HEWM:

Essentially it's arrows for quartertones (up and down), half-arrows
pointing rightward (up and down) for the septimal comma (33 cents) or
the sixth-tone, and plusses and minuses for the syntonic comma (16
cents)... That's all there is to it...

J. Pehrson

>Finally, I believe everyone will be able to access my files without
>further ado:
>
>http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/ozanyarman/lst?.dir=/My+Documents
>
>Thank you very much for your assistance Carl! I am eager to receive
>your valuable input on the Spectral Notation as well as my compositions.

Hi Ozan,

Eek, technical problems again. If I follow this link, it says
the folder is empty. But if I click "up" to "file folders", it
shows there being 6 items in it. Strange!

Is anybody else able to view the contents of this folder?

-Carl

Dear Carl, have you tried this link?

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ozanyarman

I'm sorry to have caused so much frustration. I guess I will have to start a website of my own one of these days.

All the best,
Ozan Yarman
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 29 Kasım 2004 Pazartesi 18:25
Subject: Re: [tuning] Notational Standard?

>Finally, I believe everyone will be able to access my files without
>further ado:
>
>http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/ozanyarman/lst?.dir=/My+Documents
>
>Thank you very much for your assistance Carl! I am eager to receive
>your valuable input on the Spectral Notation as well as my compositions.

Hi Ozan,

Eek, technical problems again. If I follow this link, it says
the folder is empty. But if I click "up" to "file folders", it
shows there being 6 items in it. Strange!

Is anybody else able to view the contents of this folder?

-Carl

>Dear Carl, have you tried this link?
>
>http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ozanyarman
>
>I'm sorry to have caused so much frustration. I guess I will have
>to start a website of my own one of these days.
>
>All the best,
>Ozan Yarman

I did go to that page, and it says there are 6 items in your
"My Documents" folder. But if I go into that folder, it says
the folder is "currently empty".

-Carl

I have the same issues...it shows 6 items in the folder but when I go to the folder it says it is empty.

Jeremy

On Nov 29, 2004, at 8:59 AM, Carl Lumma wrote:

>
>> Dear Carl, have you tried this link?
>>
>> http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ozanyarman
>>
>> I'm sorry to have caused so much frustration. I guess I will have
>> to start a website of my own one of these days.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Ozan Yarman
>
> I did go to that page, and it says there are 6 items in your
> "My Documents" folder. But if I go into that folder, it says
> the folder is "currently empty".
>
> -Carl
>
>
>
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> I'm sorry to have caused so much frustration. I guess I
> will have to start a website of my own one of these days.

Hi Ozan,

I haven't tried them myself, but some friends of mine
have recommended...

http://www.geekhosting.com/

...it's quite cheap.

-Carl

Dear Carl, I've signed up immediately after surveying the possibilities. Nicely done if I may say so! You have not heard the last from me yet. In about less than a week, I hope to set up my own webpage at www.ozanyarman.com. Seeing as their servers are located in Texas, this brings me even closer to American mavericks and microtonalists such as yourself.

BTW, I was conversing the other day with my elder Can Akkoc about a likely group visit to the States in the foreseeable future. If this comes to pass, I would like to inform you that you are on our list of must-meets.

All the best,
Ozan
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 29 Kasım 2004 Pazartesi 21:41
Subject: [tuning] Re: Notational Standard?

> I'm sorry to have caused so much frustration. I guess I
> will have to start a website of my own one of these days.

Hi Ozan,

I haven't tried them myself, but some friends of mine
have recommended...

http://www.geekhosting.com/

...it's quite cheap.

-Carl

>Dear Carl, I've signed up immediately after surveying the possibilities.
>Nicely done if I may say so! You have not heard the last from me yet. In
>about less than a week, I hope to set up my own webpage at
>www.ozanyarman.com.

Congratulations!

>Seeing as their servers are located in Texas, this brings me even
>closer to American mavericks and microtonalists such as yourself.

Gary Morrison lives in Texas, last I heard. I'd call him a maverick,
though I haven't heard from him in a while.

Any other list members in Texas?

>BTW, I was conversing the other day with my elder Can Akkoc about
>a likely group visit to the States in the foreseeable future. If
>this comes to pass, I would like to inform you that you are on our
>list of must-meets.

Great! Can and I have enjoyed many stimulating e-mails.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> Gary Morrison lives in Texas, last I heard. I'd call him a maverick,
> though I haven't heard from him in a while.
>
> Any other list members in Texas?

I'm in houston...

attending the prestigious Rice University...

I'm really sorry about that Jeremy, I'll make it up to you this week once I complete the foundations of my own personal website.

All the best,
Ozan Yarman

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy Hunt
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 29 Kasım 2004 Pazartesi 19:39
Subject: Re: [tuning] Notational Standard?

I have the same issues...it shows 6 items in the folder but when I go
to the folder it says it is empty.

Jeremy

On Nov 29, 2004, at 8:59 AM, Carl Lumma wrote:

>
>> Dear Carl, have you tried this link?
>>
>> http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/ozanyarman
>>
>> I'm sorry to have caused so much frustration. I guess I will have
>> to start a website of my own one of these days.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Ozan Yarman
>
> I did go to that page, and it says there are 6 items in your
> "My Documents" folder. But if I go into that folder, it says
> the folder is "currently empty".
>
> -Carl
>
>