Secor-Wilson Scalatron

Dear George, I'm very impressed with your improved Bosanquet keyboard design comrising 31 tones per octave. How can I obtain such an instrument with such a keyboard?

Cordially,
Ozan

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Ozan Yarman" <ozanyarman@s...> wrote:
> Dear George, I'm very impressed with your improved Bosanquet
keyboard design comrising 31 tones per octave. How can I obtain such
an instrument with such a keyboard?
>
> Cordially,
> Ozan

I'm sorry, but you're asking 25 years too late. Only 3 instruments
were made with this special keyboard before the Scalatron Company
went out of business.

However, Microzone keyboard controllers for electronic synthesizers
are currently available from Starrlabs. These utilize the highly
efficient hexagonal key shape that Erv Wilson designed:

http://www.starrlabs.com

If you click on "keyboards" near the upper left, you'll see that
there are two models, the pricey U990, and the less expensive U648.

Also be sure to click on "Ztars" to see another type of controller
that is capable of microtonality.

There will also be another Bosanquet keyboard controller available
(at a significantly lower price) in the (hopefully) near future:

/tuning/topicId_35965.html#35965
/tuning/topicId_39589.html#39761

Johnny Reinhard's announcement is over two years old, but I
understand that work on this project is still going on:

/tuning/topicId_53029.html#56033

These things can take more time than one expects when resources are
limited, so we should expect to exercise a little more patience in
awaiting its arrival.

--George

>> Dear George, I'm very impressed with your improved Bosanquet
>> keyboard design comrising 31 tones per octave. How can I obtain
>> such an instrument with such a keyboard?
>>
>> Cordially,
>> Ozan
>
>I'm sorry, but you're asking 25 years too late. Only 3 instruments
>were made with this special keyboard before the Scalatron Company
>went out of business.
>
>However, Microzone keyboard controllers for electronic synthesizers
>are currently available from Starrlabs. These utilize the highly
>efficient hexagonal key shape that Erv Wilson designed:
>
>http://www.starrlabs.com
>
>If you click on "keyboards" near the upper left, you'll see that
>there are two models, the pricey U990, and the less expensive U648.
>
>Also be sure to click on "Ztars" to see another type of controller
>that is capable of microtonality.
>
>There will also be another Bosanquet keyboard controller available
>(at a significantly lower price) in the (hopefully) near future:
>
>/tuning/topicId_35965.html#35965
>/tuning/topicId_39589.html#39761
>
>Johnny Reinhard's announcement is over two years old, but I
>understand that work on this project is still going on:
>
>/tuning/topicId_53029.html#56033
>
>These things can take more time than one expects when resources are
>limited, so we should expect to exercise a little more patience in
>awaiting its arrival.

There are also these projects:

http://daskin.com/

http://www.themboard.com/

-Carl

It is indeed true that development is progressing on a Bosanquet-
style keyboard for microtonal composition and performance. We have
completed a proof-of-concept 7-key prototype, and we are now building
a second prototype to test out changes to the electronics and some
modifications to the key design.

The plan is to have a 55-key version complete by mid-December. The
55-key version will be modular, so multiples of 55 keys can be built
up to produce keyboards of increasingly larger sizes, with a 275 key
version being one of the preferred embodiments for microtonalists.

I am maintaining a list of people who are interested in updates on
this project. If you would like to be added to this list, please let
me know! Details have been difficult to release due to disclosure
restrictions on certain aspects of the design that may be patented,
but I will do my best to keep interested parties up to date.

I am interested too in details on the projects mentioned below; the
mboard at www.themboard.com and the one mentioned at www.daskin.com.
Neither seem to be that similar to the keyboard we are working on,
but details are always interesting!

Johnny Reinhard's posts in...
/tuning/topicId_35965.html#35965
/tuning/topicId_39589.html#39761

.. are indeed 2 years old, but this project only recently received
the funding it required, so development has been moving much faster
since this past August 2004. Some more recent posts on this same
project are at...

/tuning/topicId_53029.html#56033
/tuning/topicId_53029.html#53047

Best regards,

- Dylan Horvath

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >> Dear George, I'm very impressed with your improved Bosanquet
> >> keyboard design comrising 31 tones per octave. How can I obtain
> >> such an instrument with such a keyboard?
> >>
> >> Cordially,
> >> Ozan
> >
> >I'm sorry, but you're asking 25 years too late. Only 3
instruments
> >were made with this special keyboard before the Scalatron Company
> >went out of business.
> >
> >However, Microzone keyboard controllers for electronic
synthesizers
> >are currently available from Starrlabs. These utilize the highly
> >efficient hexagonal key shape that Erv Wilson designed:
> >
> >http://www.starrlabs.com
> >
> >If you click on "keyboards" near the upper left, you'll see that
> >there are two models, the pricey U990, and the less expensive U648.
> >
> >Also be sure to click on "Ztars" to see another type of controller
> >that is capable of microtonality.
> >
> >There will also be another Bosanquet keyboard controller available
> >(at a significantly lower price) in the (hopefully) near future:
> >
> >/tuning/topicId_35965.html#35965
> >/tuning/topicId_39589.html#39761
> >
> >Johnny Reinhard's announcement is over two years old, but I
> >understand that work on this project is still going on:
> >
> >/tuning/topicId_53029.html#56033
> >
> >These things can take more time than one expects when resources
are
> >limited, so we should expect to exercise a little more patience in
> >awaiting its arrival.
>
> There are also these projects:
>
> http://daskin.com/
>
> http://www.themboard.com/
>
> -Carl

Hello Dylan!

> I am interested too in details on the projects mentioned
>below; the mboard at www.themboard.com and the one mentioned
>at www.daskin.com. Neither seem to be that similar to the
>keyboard we are working on, but details are always interesting!

I can tell you quite a bit about the Daskin keyboard; all I
know about the mboard is on their site.

Daskin is Paul Vandervoort's company. Paul is a professional
musician who plays both conventional and Janko keyboards very
well. The Daskin keyboard is a Janko MIDI controller with
custom keyswitches (light-triggered -- no contacts!) and textured
keytops for location-finding, per Paul's patents. Paul is
planning on mass production. They keyboard is not designed for
microtonality, but would be an excellent microtonal controller.
The only drawback of the design is that the keytops are not
removable. Paul is working on a 'when it's ready' schedule,
funding the project from his own pockets. More details can be
found in Paul's patents.

I'm interested in details on your project. I searched the web
in vein some months ago. Do tell (photos?)!

-Carl

Do you think that we will ever have an acoustic piano with a bosanquet
keyboard?
I have asked this question to the group before but I guess I did not
made my point clear then.
I am wondering if it is feasible to have so many key mechanisms and
strings on the instrument .
I guess there is not much interest in the world for such a piano , but
I want to know if this idea is science fiction!
I see that some microtonal composers use piano sounds on their
electronically realized compositions.
I can't accept electronic instruments making acoustic instrument sounds
, except as a temporary solution such as in our case where no real
microtonal piano exists.
Do these/you composers expect real microtonal pianos in the future?

Pardon my anxiousness but I want to play an acoustic instrument besides
electronic ones , and as a pianist I want to decide if I will give up
the piano and take up the cello!
On 13 Νοε 2004, at 8:37 μμ, Carl Lumma wrote:

>
> Hello Dylan!
>
>> I am interested too in details on the projects mentioned
>> below; the mboard at www.themboard.com and the one mentioned
>> at www.daskin.com. Neither seem to be that similar to the
>> keyboard we are working on, but details are always interesting!
>
> I can tell you quite a bit about the Daskin keyboard; all I
> know about the mboard is on their site.
>
> Daskin is Paul Vandervoort's company. Paul is a professional
> musician who plays both conventional and Janko keyboards very
> well. The Daskin keyboard is a Janko MIDI controller with
> custom keyswitches (light-triggered -- no contacts!) and textured
> keytops for location-finding, per Paul's patents. Paul is
> planning on mass production. They keyboard is not designed for
> microtonality, but would be an excellent microtonal controller.
> The only drawback of the design is that the keytops are not
> removable. Paul is working on a 'when it's ready' schedule,
> funding the project from his own pockets. More details can be
> found in Paul's patents.
>
> I'm interested in details on your project. I searched the web
> in vein some months ago. Do tell (photos?)!
>
> -Carl
>
>
>
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>Do you think that we will ever have an acoustic piano with a bosanquet
>keyboard?

It's not impossible.

>I am wondering if it is feasible to have so many key mechanisms and
>strings on the instrument.

Hammers can only be made so narrow. Norman Henry, working with wood,
can put about 35 pitches in a reachable octave on a double-strung
fortepiano. After that, one can imagine a second set of strings and
hammers below (with some kind of mechanical linkage) or a second set
in a separate box (with some kind of electric actuation).

>Do these/you composers expect real microtonal pianos in the future?

I hope to have one, one day.

>Pardon my anxiousness but I want to play an acoustic instrument
>besides electronic ones , and as a pianist I want to decide if I will
>give up the piano and take up the cello!

Well it's been my #1 priority for years to have even a bosanquet
controller, let alone a piano. Still working on it...

-Carl

If I will be allowed to interject here, I am entitled to say that I have developed a mechanism which can `bend` the strings of any piano individually, in selected groups or collectively to produce the intermediate tones and extrinsic scales required by microtonalists. I call the mechanism Ultratonal Piano, a device that could be fitted to any acoustical piano's string board with a manoeuvrable control console just in front of the pianist. The console can be painlessly hidden from view when not needed. The device is easily installed and can be removed on demand. It silently employs the pressure required to increase or decrease the tension of the strings within an acceptable safe range of operation. For those who wonder how it does that, I can only tell you that the mechanism has nothing to do with the metallic pegs holding the strings in tension.

I regret to inform you, however, that the realization of the completed design of the Ultratonal Piano project requires considerable financial contributions before we can even come up with a prototype. If the costs are met, we wish to manufacture both the mechanical and the electronic versions of it.

Cordially,
Ozan Yarman

----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 14 Kasım 2004 Pazar 22:48
Subject: Re: [tuning] Terpstra keyboard and acoustic pianos

>Do you think that we will ever have an acoustic piano with a bosanquet
>keyboard?

It's not impossible.

>I am wondering if it is feasible to have so many key mechanisms and
>strings on the instrument.

Hammers can only be made so narrow. Norman Henry, working with wood,
can put about 35 pitches in a reachable octave on a double-strung
fortepiano. After that, one can imagine a second set of strings and
hammers below (with some kind of mechanical linkage) or a second set
in a separate box (with some kind of electric actuation).

>Do these/you composers expect real microtonal pianos in the future?

I hope to have one, one day.

>Pardon my anxiousness but I want to play an acoustic instrument
>besides electronic ones , and as a pianist I want to decide if I will
>give up the piano and take up the cello!

Well it's been my #1 priority for years to have even a bosanquet
controller, let alone a piano. Still working on it...

-Carl

You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
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>If I will be allowed to interject here, I am entitled to say that I
>have developed a mechanism which can `bend` the strings of any piano
>individually, in selected groups or collectively to produce the
>intermediate tones and extrinsic scales required by microtonalists. I
>call themechanism Ultratonal Piano, a device that could be fitted
>to any acoustical piano's string board with a manoeuvrable control
>console just in front of the pianist. The console can be painlessly
>hidden from view when not needed. The device is easily installed and
>can be removed on demand. It silently employs the pressure required
>to increase or decrease the tension of the strings within an
>acceptable safe range of operation. For those who wonder how it does
>that, I can only tell you that the mechanism has nothing to do
>with the metallic pegs holding the strings in tension.

Sounds fascinating!

>I regret to inform you, however, that the realization of the
>completed design of the Ultratonal Piano project requires considerable
>financial contributions before we can even come up with a prototype.
>If the costs are met, we wish to manufacture both the mechanical and
>the electronic versions of it.

Hi Ozan,

I remember the fateful day, when I realized the World is not
held up on a shortage of ideas, but rather a shortage of money!
On the other hand, it is said that any amount of money can be
raised with the right PowerPoint presentation. :)

-Carl

Dear Carl,

I'm pleased to have received such a prompt reply from you. Now that you mention it, I think I have the right powerpoint presentation for the purpose you speak of. You can view it at www.musiki.org. It can be reached following the link entitled Ultratonal Piano. But mind you! The text is entirely Turkish, it takes helluva time to load and some pages require that you select the text with the mouse to be able to read them. The last time I checked, you need at least 10 minutes download time at 512K, and individual pages with graphics might take a few minutes to display. I hope such setbacks do not affect your enthusiasm in any way undesirable.

The full design, technical drawings, and patent rights belong to myself.
Enjoy!
Ozan Yarman

----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 15 Kasım 2004 Pazartesi 5:59
Subject: Re: [tuning] Terpstra keyboard and acoustic pianos

>If I will be allowed to interject here, I am entitled to say that I
>have developed a mechanism which can `bend` the strings of any piano
>individually, in selected groups or collectively to produce the
>intermediate tones and extrinsic scales required by microtonalists. I
>call themechanism Ultratonal Piano, a device that could be fitted
>to any acoustical piano's string board with a manoeuvrable control
>console just in front of the pianist. The console can be painlessly
>hidden from view when not needed. The device is easily installed and
>can be removed on demand. It silently employs the pressure required
>to increase or decrease the tension of the strings within an
>acceptable safe range of operation. For those who wonder how it does
>that, I can only tell you that the mechanism has nothing to do
>with the metallic pegs holding the strings in tension.

Sounds fascinating!

>I regret to inform you, however, that the realization of the
>completed design of the Ultratonal Piano project requires considerable
>financial contributions before we can even come up with a prototype.
>If the costs are met, we wish to manufacture both the mechanical and
>the electronic versions of it.

Hi Ozan,

I remember the fateful day, when I realized the World is not
held up on a shortage of ideas, but rather a shortage of money!
On the other hand, it is said that any amount of money can be
raised with the right PowerPoint presentation. :)

-Carl

Dear Carl,

>I'm pleased to have received such a prompt reply from you. Now that you
>mention it, I think I have the right powerpoint presentation for the
>purpose you speak of. You can view it at www.musiki.org. It can be
>reached following the link entitled Ultratonal Piano. But mind you! The
>text is entirely Turkish, it takes helluva time to load and some pages
>require that you select the text with the mouse to be able to read them.
>The last time I checked, you need at least 10 minutes download time at
>512K, and individual pages with graphics might take a few minutes to
>display. I hope such setbacks do not affect your enthusiasm in any way
>undesirable.

I have a very fast connection here, so download time wasn't a
problem.

Your presentation looks good, even though I can't read it!

I suppose the thing to do is give the presentation as often as you
can. Too bad the piano market as a whole is faltering at the moment...

-Carl

on 11/15/04 1:06 AM, Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org> wrote:

>
> Dear Carl,
>
>> I'm pleased to have received such a prompt reply from you. Now that you
>> mention it, I think I have the right powerpoint presentation for the
>> purpose you speak of. You can view it at www.musiki.org. It can be
>> reached following the link entitled Ultratonal Piano. But mind you! The
>> text is entirely Turkish, it takes helluva time to load and some pages
>> require that you select the text with the mouse to be able to read them.
>> The last time I checked, you need at least 10 minutes download time at
>> 512K, and individual pages with graphics might take a few minutes to
>> display. I hope such setbacks do not affect your enthusiasm in any way
>> undesirable.
>
> I have a very fast connection here, so download time wasn't a
> problem.

Hmm. On my high-speed connection I haven't seen a page arrive yet, after 5
minutes waiting. Maybe it is the international connection (or the server)
whose performance is a little uncertain.

> Your presentation looks good, even though I can't read it!
>
> I suppose the thing to do is give the presentation as often as you
> can. Too bad the piano market as a whole is faltering at the moment...

Not to worry. Among microtonalists interest in the piano is surging! ;)

-Kurt

Dear Carl,

I thank you for scrutinizing my humble work. But my project has nothing to do with piano sales. The device I speak of is an assemblage that can be fitted to ANY acoustical piano and be easily removed on demand. The only catch is to lower the entire tuning by a notch so that the operable range of bending the strings falls within the safety zone. The machine will be capable of applying hundreds of kgs of force without making a single racket or causing wear&tear. I believe many people would want to give it a try if we could somehow mass-manufacture it to be installed on existing pianos in use.

Cordially,
Ozan Yarman

Note: Those who have trouble downloading the pages must make sure that there are no applications running in the background that might conflict with the massive content being downloaded.
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 15 Kasım 2004 Pazartesi 11:06
Subject: Re: [tuning] Terpstra keyboard and acoustic pianos

Dear Carl,

>I'm pleased to have received such a prompt reply from you. Now that you
>mention it, I think I have the right powerpoint presentation for the
>purpose you speak of. You can view it at www.musiki.org. It can be
>reached following the link entitled Ultratonal Piano. But mind you! The
>text is entirely Turkish, it takes helluva time to load and some pages
>require that you select the text with the mouse to be able to read them.
>The last time I checked, you need at least 10 minutes download time at
>512K, and individual pages with graphics might take a few minutes to
>display. I hope such setbacks do not affect your enthusiasm in any way
>undesirable.

I have a very fast connection here, so download time wasn't a
problem.

Your presentation looks good, even though I can't read it!

I suppose the thing to do is give the presentation as often as you
can. Too bad the piano market as a whole is faltering at the moment...

-Carl

You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
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tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
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>I thank you for scrutinizing my humble work. But my project has nothing
>to do with piano sales. The device I speak of is an assemblage that can
>be fitted to ANY acoustical piano and be easily removed on demand. The
>only catch is to lower the entire tuning by a notch so that the operable
>range of bending the strings falls within the safety zone. The machine
>will be capable of applying hundreds of kgs of force without making a
>single racket or causing wear&tear. I believe many people would want to
>give it a try if we could somehow mass-manufacture it to be installed
>on existing pianos in use.

That does sound good. Please keep us posted on your progress!
Do you know about:

http://www.garage.com/

?

-Carl

Hello again Carl... no I do not know about garage.com, what is it and how can we make good use of it?

All the best,
Ozan Yarman

----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 16 Kasım 2004 Salı 5:39
Subject: Re: [tuning] Terpstra keyboard and acoustic pianos

>I thank you for scrutinizing my humble work. But my project has nothing
>to do with piano sales. The device I speak of is an assemblage that can
>be fitted to ANY acoustical piano and be easily removed on demand. The
>only catch is to lower the entire tuning by a notch so that the operable
>range of bending the strings falls within the safety zone. The machine
>will be capable of applying hundreds of kgs of force without making a
>single racket or causing wear&tear. I believe many people would want to
>give it a try if we could somehow mass-manufacture it to be installed
>on existing pianos in use.

That does sound good. Please keep us posted on your progress!
Do you know about:

http://www.garage.com/

?

-Carl

>Hello again Carl... no I do not know about garage.com, what is it
>and how can we make good use of it?

Hi Ozan,

Garage is an unorthodox venture capital company. Check out their
web site.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Alexandros Papadopoulos <Alexmoog@o...>
wrote:
> the piano and take up the cello!

I tried cello for a few months, with no previous experience in bowed,
fretless string instruments. Then I switched to viola and got
recruited into a couple of community orchestras because of the greater
demand for that instrument.

Yes, I originally tried the cello because aside from the open strings,
its a continuous pitch instrument, then switched to viola because it
seemed to fit me better at the time, yet still allowed on-the-fly
intonation adjustment, and also had the unexpected side benefit of
earlier playing opportunities.

Try it, you might like it.

Paolo