Why Bother?

Here's a good one...

The Society for the Promotion of New Music, based in London UK has an annual
call for works. Shortlisted composers then work with various ensemles to
realise the music. I submitted a piece for double string quartet in the
Eikosany tuning. Whilst I make no great claims as to my abilities the
composition is playable (as much as any other microtonal piece), well
structured and good to listen to. It is also new and original. I included
screeds of information for performers and gave references and links to
follow up.

Naturally the piece was knocked back (you have more chance of being hit on
the back of the head by a sputnik), but I thought I'd share the comments
that they sent me in the form of a school report card.

Notation - no comments (too many strange accidentals probably).

Musical Ideas - "It is hard to judge this as a composition, divorced from
tthe tuning system the composer uses. How is the live performer to realise
the score accurately, and, one must ask, is it really worth the considerable
effort?"

(We'll never know the answer to that one unless we get off our arses and try
will we?)

Orchestration/Writing for Instruments - "This piece is conceived in the
abstract, rather than, it seems to me, for actual instruments"

(there's a first)

So, come on, give me some good reasons to persist with writing music that
even trained professionals can't understand and won't bother to try.

Not that any of this will stop me writing, but I'd like to hear it from the
faithful.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, <mopani@t...> wrote:

> Not that any of this will stop me writing, but I'd like to hear it
from the
> faithful.

This faithful person wonders if you have a score in ascii format,
particularly one in something easily digestible by me, such as in
terms of fractions. I could see if I would be able to produce a
band-in-a-box version.

on 3/8/04 09:14, Gene Ward Smith at gwsmith@svpal.org wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, <mopani@t...> wrote:
>
>> Not that any of this will stop me writing, but I'd like to hear it
> from the
>> faithful.
>
> This faithful person wonders if you have a score in ascii format,
> particularly one in something easily digestible by me, such as in
> terms of fractions. I could see if I would be able to produce a
> band-in-a-box version.
>
>

Thanks for the offer but I forgot to mention that I rendered the piece
electronically myself and made self-help recordings for performers.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, <mopani@t...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_55166.html#55166

> Here's a good one...
>
> The Society for the Promotion of New Music, based in London UK has
an annual
> call for works. Shortlisted composers then work with various
ensemles to
> realise the music. I submitted a piece for double string quartet
in the
> Eikosany tuning. Whilst I make no great claims as to my abilities
the
> composition is playable (as much as any other microtonal piece),
well
> structured and good to listen to. It is also new and original. I
included
> screeds of information for performers and gave references and
links to
> follow up.
>
> Naturally the piece was knocked back (you have more chance of
being hit on
> the back of the head by a sputnik), but I thought I'd share the
comments
> that they sent me in the form of a school report card.
>
> Notation - no comments (too many strange accidentals probably).
>
> Musical Ideas - "It is hard to judge this as a composition,
divorced from
> tthe tuning system the composer uses. How is the live performer to
realise
> the score accurately, and, one must ask, is it really worth the
considerable
> effort?"
>
> (We'll never know the answer to that one unless we get off our
arses and try
> will we?)
>
> Orchestration/Writing for Instruments - "This piece is conceived
in the
> abstract, rather than, it seems to me, for actual instruments"
>
> (there's a first)
>
> So, come on, give me some good reasons to persist with writing
music that
> even trained professionals can't understand and won't bother to
try.
>
> Not that any of this will stop me writing, but I'd like to hear it
from the
> faithful.

***Quite frankly, as far as performers are concerned, I believe it
is prudent to expect the worst... Without seeing your notational
system, it's hard to judge what you are asking, but, personally,
I've been using the *Blackjack* system (invented right here on this
list by Paul Erlich and Dave Keenan) which requires that the
performer only learn 2 pitch alterations from "regular" 12-tET aside
from quartertones. Some performers even complain about that much.

I don't think you should be at all surprised that you got this kind
of reaction from a competition.

You need to send such compositions to more "avant garde"
or "progressive" competitions, such as the one hosted in California
by the Microfest a few years ago.

They were specifically *asking* for microtonal works.

Same for performers: some performers actually like and *encourage*
microtonality.

So, I would examine the *destination* before sending things off...
unless, that is, you don't mind rejection... :0

J. Pehrson

on 3/8/04 14:34, Joseph Pehrson at jpehrson@rcn.com wrote:

>
> ***Quite frankly, as far as performers are concerned, I believe it
> is prudent to expect the worst... Without seeing your notational
> system, it's hard to judge what you are asking, but, personally,
> I've been using the *Blackjack* system (invented right here on this
> list by Paul Erlich and Dave Keenan) which requires that the
> performer only learn 2 pitch alterations from "regular" 12-tET aside
> from quartertones. Some performers even complain about that much.

I used Erv Wilson's notation system, used also by Kraig Grady, but you're
right, I think the very idea of admitting that you don't know something
encourages inertia.
>
> I don't think you should be at all surprised that you got this kind
> of reaction from a competition.
>
> You need to send such compositions to more "avant garde"
> or "progressive" competitions, such as the one hosted in California
> by the Microfest a few years ago.
>
> They were specifically *asking* for microtonal works.

I didn't know they asked for scores. I must do some digging to find
sympathetic performers.
>
> Same for performers: some performers actually like and *encourage*
> microtonality.
>
> So, I would examine the *destination* before sending things off...
> unless, that is, you don't mind rejection... :0

Nah - rejection's not the problem - it's figuring out a strategy to get the
works played and to establish if they are indeed worth the bother. But
thanks for giving me a few ideas.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, <mopani@t...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_55166.html#55174

> Nah - rejection's not the problem - it's figuring out a strategy
to get the
> works played and to establish if they are indeed worth the bother.
But
> thanks for giving me a few ideas.

***Well, I'm not sure if "the bother" is the right way to look at
it. If you are *impelled* to try something different by your own
compositional path, then you must do it.

However, if it's just a "bother..." In fact, if it's even the
*thought* of being just a "bother" then I would stick with 12-tET if
I were you, since you don't seem to be impelled enough to need to
use the new or novel language to express what you want...

J. Pehrson

>>> Not that any of this will stop me writing, but I'd like to
>>> hear it from the faithful.
> >
> > This faithful person wonders if you have a score in ascii
> > format, particularly one in something easily digestible by
> > me, such as in terms of fractions. I could see if I would
> > be able to produce a band-in-a-box version.
>
> Thanks for the offer but I forgot to mention that I rendered
> the piece electronically myself and made self-help recordings
> for performers.

Hello person (I'm sorry I don't know your name!),

You've always got a ready audience of folks who'll listen
with appreciation to the electronic rendering. There's also
a ready audience of folks who'd love to know what tools you
used to layout the score and render it. And probably more
than a few folks here would like to see the score.

As for performances, there is a JI concert series coming up
in the San Francisco area (1st half of 2005). Unfortunately
there's no provision for sharing performers.

Joseph Pehrson has already mentioned Microfest (microfest.org),
and of course in New York there is the AFMM (afmm.org), which
does annual concerts as well. Adam Silverman got a very nice
microtonal string quartet performed at an AFMM concert in 1999.
It was 11-limit also, but in Ben Johnston's notation. I thought
the performance was stunning.

In addition, since you have nothing to loose, I would send that
score and audio recording to every string quartet you know of,
including the Kronos quartet. And go to your local conservatory
and read the cork board.

-Carl

on 3/8/04 18:36, Carl Lumma at ekin@lumma.org wrote:

>>>> Not that any of this will stop me writing, but I'd like to
>>>> hear it from the faithful.
>>>
>>> This faithful person wonders if you have a score in ascii
>>> format, particularly one in something easily digestible by
>>> me, such as in terms of fractions. I could see if I would
>>> be able to produce a band-in-a-box version.
>>
>> Thanks for the offer but I forgot to mention that I rendered
>> the piece electronically myself and made self-help recordings
>> for performers.
>
> Hello person (I'm sorry I don't know your name!),
>
> You've always got a ready audience of folks who'll listen
> with appreciation to the electronic rendering. There's also
> a ready audience of folks who'd love to know what tools you
> used to layout the score and render it. And probably more
> than a few folks here would like to see the score.
>
> As for performances, there is a JI concert series coming up
> in the San Francisco area (1st half of 2005). Unfortunately
> there's no provision for sharing performers.
>
> Joseph Pehrson has already mentioned Microfest (microfest.org),
> and of course in New York there is the AFMM (afmm.org), which
> does annual concerts as well. Adam Silverman got a very nice
> microtonal string quartet performed at an AFMM concert in 1999.
> It was 11-limit also, but in Ben Johnston's notation. I thought
> the performance was stunning.
>
> In addition, since you have nothing to loose, I would send that
> score and audio recording to every string quartet you know of,
> including the Kronos quartet. And go to your local conservatory
> and read the cork board.
>
> -Carl
>

This is good advice. Thanks.

mopani

on 3/8/04 18:23, Joseph Pehrson at jpehrson@rcn.com wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, <mopani@t...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_55166.html#55174
>
>> Nah - rejection's not the problem - it's figuring out a strategy
> to get the
>> works played and to establish if they are indeed worth the bother.
> But
>> thanks for giving me a few ideas.
>
>
> ***Well, I'm not sure if "the bother" is the right way to look at
> it. If you are *impelled* to try something different by your own
> compositional path, then you must do it.
>
> However, if it's just a "bother..." In fact, if it's even the
> *thought* of being just a "bother" then I would stick with 12-tET if
> I were you, since you don't seem to be impelled enough to need to
> use the new or novel language to express what you want...
>
> J. Pehrson
>
>
>
Hi Joseph

I don't think anyone can tell how impelled someone is from a few emails.
I've no lack of determination to have my music played and a few knockbacks
won't discourage me at all. But I'll try to clarify what I meant in my post.

I believe that in a piece intended for live performance it's only in the
performance that the composer, in this case me, can establish if the
composition is successful. I don't mean to question the aesthetic of
microtonal composition in general, just whether the particular effort of
choosing techniques, tuning systems and so on, was the best use of my time.

Another thing - self-doubt and re-examination can sometimes result in even
greater impetus.

mopani

Hello Mopani!

I wrote...

>> You've always got a ready audience of folks who'll listen
>> with appreciation to the electronic rendering. There's also
>> a ready audience of folks who'd love to know what tools you
>> used to layout the score and render it. And probably more
>> than a few folks here would like to see the score.

I accidentally left out the "here". The ready audience is
here, on this list. Anything you'd care to share (audio,
description of methods) would be gratefully received.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, <mopani@t...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_55166.html#55198

>
> >
> >
> > ***Well, I'm not sure if "the bother" is the right way to look at
> > it. If you are *impelled* to try something different by your own
> > compositional path, then you must do it.
> >
> > However, if it's just a "bother..." In fact, if it's even the
> > *thought* of being just a "bother" then I would stick with 12-
tET if
> > I were you, since you don't seem to be impelled enough to need to
> > use the new or novel language to express what you want...
> >
> > J. Pehrson
> >
> >
> >
> Hi Joseph
>
> I don't think anyone can tell how impelled someone is from a few
emails.

***Sorry if my comment was viewed as an attack, since it wasn't
intended as such...

JP

on 4/8/04 14:53, Joseph Pehrson at jpehrson@rcn.com wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, <mopani@t...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_55166.html#55198
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***Well, I'm not sure if "the bother" is the right way to look at
>>> it. If you are *impelled* to try something different by your own
>>> compositional path, then you must do it.
>>>
>>> However, if it's just a "bother..." In fact, if it's even the
>>> *thought* of being just a "bother" then I would stick with 12-
> tET if
>>> I were you, since you don't seem to be impelled enough to need to
>>> use the new or novel language to express what you want...
>>>
>>> J. Pehrson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Hi Joseph
>>
>> I don't think anyone can tell how impelled someone is from a few
> emails.
>
>
> ***Sorry if my comment was viewed as an attack, since it wasn't
> intended as such...
>
> JP
>
>
No offence taken as I'm sure none was intended. : - )

mopani

on 8/4/04 1:09 AM, Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org> wrote:

> Hello Mopani!
>
> I wrote...
>
>>> You've always got a ready audience of folks who'll listen
>>> with appreciation to the electronic rendering. There's also
>>> a ready audience of folks who'd love to know what tools you
>>> used to layout the score and render it. And probably more
>>> than a few folks here would like to see the score.
>
> I accidentally left out the "here". The ready audience is
> here, on this list. Anything you'd care to share (audio,
> description of methods) would be gratefully received.

Yes, please upload your music in all possible forms!

-Kurt

>
> -Carl

James!

This message was dated 10 Jan 1970:
>Here's that link again
>
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/slowtones/mp3s/CUTGLA~1.MP3

This one 14 May 2004, though I suspect it was sent months
after that:

>I'll try again. Here's a link to some new microtonal
>music with tuning interest. As nobody has commented I'm
>assuming indifference. I don't want you to like it, but
>I think it's worth listening to. Failing that my next
opus will be a neo-baroque doodle on a cheesy synth (but
>with an interesting tuning) : - )
>
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/slowtones/pages/glass%20page.html

In any case, I just now found them burried in my inbox.
I won't have a chance to listen for a few days, but I'll
get back to you then.

I was looking up your e-mail address to make sure you saw
this post...

/tuning/topicId_55415.html#55415

-Carl