Detwelved harp

Any thoughts on interesting ways to tune a normal concert harp? Say I wanted
octave-equivalence. So you have 7 notes that can be retuned from a C flat diatonic
scale (a harpist tells me you can tune up a good 200 cents and down even more), and,
by way of pedals, those seven notes transposed up 100 or 200 cents.

So actually as many as 21 notes per octave if you want to make use of three chains
separated by 100 cents. In other words, you could get 7 equal, but not 14 or 21
equal.

Then again, even more elaborate systems could follow from not requiring an octave
(tempered or otherwise). This is a completely open-ended question...

Are any of these lovely linear temperaments discovered and named around these
parts particularly suited to these constraints?

Jacob

You could tune the open strings to any subdivision of 12 ( including a 7 subset of 72
changing at the octave to a different subset, thereby getting the most possible tones
out of the system. Of course you could do the same thing in 24

Jacob wrote:

> Any thoughts on interesting ways to tune a normal concert harp? Say I wanted
> octave-equivalence. So you have 7 notes that can be retuned from a C flat diatonic
> scale (a harpist tells me you can tune up a good 200 cents and down even more), and,
> by way of pedals, those seven notes transposed up 100 or 200 cents.
>
> So actually as many as 21 notes per octave if you want to make use of three chains
> separated by 100 cents. In other words, you could get 7 equal, but not 14 or 21
> equal.
>
> Then again, even more elaborate systems could follow from not requiring an octave
> (tempered or otherwise). This is a completely open-ended question...
>
> Are any of these lovely linear temperaments discovered and named around these
> parts particularly suited to these constraints?
>
> Jacob
>
>
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>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

Well, I don't know if my idea would be "interesting", but since the harp is
diatonic in nature, you could retune the strings to straight JI ratios: 1/1,
9/8, 5/4, 4/3, 3/2, 5/3, 15/8. The difference from 12edo might be too subtle
to tell, but it wouldn't be exactly 12edo anymore. Also, you could tune it to
the pythagorean scale by tuning by use of only pure fifths (3/2).

Jay

Quoting Jacob <jbarton@rice.edu>:

> Any thoughts on interesting ways to tune a normal concert harp? Say I
> wanted
> octave-equivalence. So you have 7 notes that can be retuned from a C
> flat diatonic
> scale (a harpist tells me you can tune up a good 200 cents and down even
> more), and,
> by way of pedals, those seven notes transposed up 100 or 200 cents.
>
> So actually as many as 21 notes per octave if you want to make use of
> three chains
> separated by 100 cents. In other words, you could get 7 equal, but not
> 14 or 21
> equal.
>
> Then again, even more elaborate systems could follow from not requiring
> an octave
> (tempered or otherwise). This is a completely open-ended question...
>
> Are any of these lovely linear temperaments discovered and named around
> these
> parts particularly suited to these constraints?
>
> Jacob
>
>
>
>
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_54118.html#54126

> You could tune the open strings to any subdivision of 12 (
including a 7 subset of 72
> changing at the octave to a different subset, thereby getting the
most possible tones
> out of the system. Of course you could do the same thing in 24
>

***Just out of curiosity, was it James Tenney who did the piece with
7 harps. Was that a 72-tET piece? Does anybody remember details
about this tuning... I forget...

J. Pehrson

I think it was actually a lattice of 3's and 7's.
but 72 would be easy to do this way!

Joseph Person wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_54118.html#54126
>
> > You could tune the open strings to any subdivision of 12 (
> including a 7 subset of 72
> > changing at the octave to a different subset, thereby getting the
> most possible tones
> > out of the system. Of course you could do the same thing in 24
> >
>
> ***Just out of curiosity, was it James Tenney who did the piece with
> 7 harps. Was that a 72-tET piece? Does anybody remember details
> about this tuning... I forget...
>
> J. Pehrson
>
>
> You can configure your subscription by sending an empty email to one
> of these addresses (from the address at which you receive the list):
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - leave the group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - turn off mail from the group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - set group to send daily digests.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - set group to send individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_54118.html#54126
>
> > You could tune the open strings to any subdivision of 12 (
> including a 7 subset of 72
> > changing at the octave to a different subset, thereby getting the
> most possible tones
> > out of the system. Of course you could do the same thing in 24
> >
>
>
> ***Just out of curiosity, was it James Tenney who did the piece
with
> 7 harps.

6 of them.

> Was that a 72-tET piece?

Yup!

>Does anybody remember details
> about this tuning... I forget...

Each harp was in 12-equal relative to itself, but tuned 1/12-tone
away from a neighboring harp. Between the six harps, all 72 notes
were attainable.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "wallyesterpaulrus" <paul@s...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_54118.html#54436

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:
> >
> > /tuning/topicId_54118.html#54126
> >
> > > You could tune the open strings to any subdivision of 12 (
> > including a 7 subset of 72
> > > changing at the octave to a different subset, thereby getting
the
> > most possible tones
> > > out of the system. Of course you could do the same thing in 24
> > >
> >
> >
> > ***Just out of curiosity, was it James Tenney who did the piece
> with
> > 7 harps.
>
> 6 of them.
>
> > Was that a 72-tET piece?
>
> Yup!
>
> >Does anybody remember details
> > about this tuning... I forget...
>
> Each harp was in 12-equal relative to itself, but tuned 1/12-tone
> away from a neighboring harp. Between the six harps, all 72 notes
> were attainable.

***Oh sure! Now I remember. Now, *that's* a practical tuning (as
long as you have 6 harps! :)

JP

on 7/11/04 8:04 AM, Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "wallyesterpaulrus" <paul@s...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_54118.html#54436
>
>
>> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
> wrote:
>>> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> /tuning/topicId_54118.html#54126
>>>
>>>> You could tune the open strings to any subdivision of 12 (
>>> including a 7 subset of 72
>>>> changing at the octave to a different subset, thereby getting
> the
>>> most possible tones
>>>> out of the system. Of course you could do the same thing in 24
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ***Just out of curiosity, was it James Tenney who did the piece
>> with
>>> 7 harps.
>>
>> 6 of them.
>>
>>> Was that a 72-tET piece?
>>
>> Yup!
>>
>>> Does anybody remember details
>>> about this tuning... I forget...
>>
>> Each harp was in 12-equal relative to itself, but tuned 1/12-tone
>> away from a neighboring harp. Between the six harps, all 72 notes
>> were attainable.
>
>
> ***Oh sure! Now I remember. Now, *that's* a practical tuning (as
> long as you have 6 harps! :)
>
> JP

What better way to harp on people to make the switch to 72-et. ;)

-Kurt