MicroFest continues Sunday in NY, including Lou Harrison

Yes, I am doing Lou Harrison's solo for bassoon. Some West Coasters may
remember this piece. Thanks to John Schneider for finding another copy (...as
the first remains missing). Sunday, March 28th at Faust Harrison Pianos (205 W.
58th Street) features polymicrotonal works by Jane Rigler ("Alba"), and yours
truly. AFMMer Anastasia Solberg will be featured in three additional works,
twice with pianist Joshua Pierce. These works are "microtonal" only in the
viola part. (The theme is "Microtones Lite".) These composers are Stephen
Mayer, Isang Yun, and Victoria Bond.

My piece is all about the oboe and its powerful timbral voice. Dutch master
Bram Kreeftmeijer is sure to surprise as soloist. The piece is called
Melanin.

BTW, the Bach was rather gorgeous...but hey, I may be subjective. Johnny
Reinhard

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52972.html#52972

> BTW, the Bach was rather gorgeous...but hey, I may be subjective.
Johnny
> Reinhard

***Johnny's performance of Bach was splendid, with top notch players
and top notch playing... I found the "Es Ist Genug" cantata
particularly affecting.

For that piece, though, it was a little strange having the first
movement conducted and then having the conductor (Johnny) disappear
for the rest of the cantata, with the music stand there with music on
it... (we figured he went out for a beer...)

Michael Harrison and I feel that Johnny needed to have more material
in the program notes about the Werckmeister tuning... like where
the "pure" fifths are, etc...

And at a hastily convened "conference" after the concert, Michael
Harrison, Stuart Isacoff and myself "concluded" that while none of us
could specifically hear or identify Werckmeister (partially due to
familiarily, I imagine) we all could easily detect that the tuning
was decidedly *not* equal temperament, and that the performances were
particularly beautiful as a result...

Congrats to Johnny for making this impressive event happen!

Joseph Pehrson

In a message dated 3/25/04 11:30:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jpehrson@rcn.com writes:

> ***Johnny's performance of Bach was splendid, with top notch players
> and top notch playing... I found the "Es Ist Genug" cantata
> particularly affecting.
>
> For that piece, though, it was a little strange having the first
> movement conducted and then having the conductor (Johnny) disappear
> for the rest of the cantata, with the music stand there with music on
> it... (we figured he went out for a beer...)

Actually, I finally got to sit with my wife. (She had been complaining
silently and across the audience that I wasn't sitting with her.) Besides, the
cantata is called, Ich habe genug.

While listed as conductor for all three pieces, 3 rehearsals focused the
musicians on following my directions without my actually standing in front of
them. The only time I actually "conducted" real time was when there was a vocal
soloist, leading to a complexity that required real time leadership. I took
off for the last recitative and aria so that the piece could end in that freer
way of having the musicians offering a chamber music quality to the music.

The music is all important: conducting is practiced only when necessary.
What was so beautiful is that it was not at all necessary, except for what has
been described above. (At least this way, I know that the players were all
satisfied with the tempi, as was I.) Besides, there were no conductors, as such,
in Bach's day.

> Michael Harrison and I feel that Johnny needed to have more material
> in the program notes about the Werckmeister tuning... like where
> the "pure" fifths are, etc...
>

If the two of you don't know, I'd say look it up. I don't think the concert
is the place to present a book of information. Instead, I spoke in a humorous
fashion at length about many different qualities of the tuning. The ears
were to be the judges, not the intellect, at least not at the time of the
concert. (Besides, we're lucky to have had the program we did, 3 pages. I have no
printer at present.)

> And at a hastily convened "conference" after the concert, Michael
> Harrison, Stuart Isacoff and myself "concluded" that while none of us
> could specifically hear or identify Werckmeister (partially due to
> familiarly, I imagine)

How could you if each tonic produces a different set of intervalic
relationships?

we all could easily detect that the tuning >
> was decidedly *not* equal temperament, and that the performances were
> particularly beautiful as a result...
>
> Congrats to Johnny for making this impressive event happen!
>
> Joseph Pehrson
>

Thank you Joseph. I remember saying to Michael, who was obviously enthralled
with the music, that the tuning was great temperament, not non-temperament,
or Just. I wanted to emphasize how an exact tuning of non-just interval (but
with some) could be used by the master composer in a way that a just tuning
could not.

Stuart Isacoff was floating off the ground 2 inches. Not incidentally, the
oboist and flutist sounded excellent using scotch tape to adapt to Werckmeister
III tuning.

best, Johnny Reinhard (preparing for Sunday night)

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52972.html#52975

> > Michael Harrison and I feel that Johnny needed to have more
material
> > in the program notes about the Werckmeister tuning... like where
> > the "pure" fifths are, etc...
> >
>
> If the two of you don't know, I'd say look it up. I don't think
the concert
> is the place to present a book of information. Instead, I spoke in
a humorous
> fashion at length about many different qualities of the tuning.
The ears
> were to be the judges, not the intellect, at least not at the time
of the
> concert. (Besides, we're lucky to have had the program we did, 3
pages. I have no
> printer at present.)
>

***Hi Johnny,

Well, it's not that easy to look up. I'm not even finding it here in
my copy of Jorgensen's _Tuning..._, and I tried to find the tuning in
there after the concert. I know you gave me a chart of the circle of
fifths at one point, but I appear to have misplaced it, or it would
probably take me hours to search for it...

The point is more that if a festival or concert is focused
on "alternate tunings" such material should be included, especially
since there was only *one* tuning the entire evening so it really
wouldn't be that much work or paper...

A "regular" concert of early music wouldn't need this, but
a "regular" concert also doesn't proclaim that its focus is on
alternate tunings...

Not a criticism really, just an observation...

best,

Joseph

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52972.html#52976

> ***Hi Johnny,
>
> Well, it's not that easy to look up.

***I guess I'm finding it here now in J. Murray Barbour's book.

However, how many people actually have a copy of that book? It took
me *three years* to get a copy of it myself! :)

(I'll sell it for $1000, if anybody wants it... :)

J. Pehrson

In a message dated 3/27/04 2:31:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jpehrson@rcn.com
writes:

> ***I guess I'm finding it here now in J. Murray Barbour's book.
>
>

Anyone could have told you on the List. 4 fifths flat, 8 pure. Flat fifths
are C-G, G-D, D-A, and B-F#. None of this will help someone listen at a
concert. Instead, I gave the relations of all 12 notes starting on a C for 0
cents. Good luck in Barbour.

best, Johnny

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

> ***I guess I'm finding it here now in J. Murray Barbour's book.
>
> However, how many people actually have a copy of that book? It took
> me *three years* to get a copy of it myself! :)

The easiest way to find it, I think, would be to look in Manuel's list
of scales.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52972.html#52978

> In a message dated 3/27/04 2:31:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jpehrson@r...
> writes:
>
>
> > ***I guess I'm finding it here now in J. Murray Barbour's book.
> >
> >
>
> Anyone could have told you on the List. 4 fifths flat, 8 pure.
Flat fifths
> are C-G, G-D, D-A, and B-F#. None of this will help someone listen
at a
> concert. Instead, I gave the relations of all 12 notes starting on
a C for 0
> cents. Good luck in Barbour.
>
> best, Johnny

***Hi Johnny,

Thanks. This is very helpful. Actually, I find what you have
written above to be *much* more descriptive than just a list of the
scale with cents values above the pitches. That didn't do anything
for me at all with listening, but the above possibly could. This is
just my *own* opinion.

I notice that Barbour defines some Werckmeister temperaments
as "correct" and the one you used, I think, is not one of them.

That's obviously Barbour's near 12-equal bias at work, I believe... :)

best,

Joseph

In a message dated 3/27/04 9:57:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, jpehrson@rcn.com
writes:

> Thanks. This is very helpful. Actually, I find what you have
> written above to be *much* more descriptive than just a list of the
> scale with cents values above the pitches. That didn't do anything
> for me at all with listening, but the above possibly could. This is
> just my *own* opinion.

Yes, it is your opinion. My opinion, after performing Werckmeister III Bach
for several years, is that explaining how to tune up a keyboard does not aid
in the listening and acceptance of the performance. It does not explain away
the 39 different intervals, for example. Besides, we are not asking people in
the concert situation to try tuning up instruments at home. For example, I
did not and cannot explain how to put the scotch tape on either the oboe or the
flute, or any other instrument. I suggest you just take in the musical
experience and digest it and leave your intellect for later researches.

>
> I notice that Barbour defines some Werckmeister temperaments
> as "correct" and the one you used, I think, is not one of them.
>

Barbour's Werckmeister I is OUR Werckmeister III. Barbour left out both just
intonation and quarter comma meantone to start the list from Werckmeister's
preferred chromatic tuning.

> That's obviously Barbour's near 12-equal bias at work, I believe... :)
>
> best,
>
> Joseph
>

Obviously, you are drawing unnecessary conclusions. But I am glad you
enjoyed the performances. best, Johnny :)

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52972.html#52985

> >
> > I notice that Barbour defines some Werckmeister temperaments
> > as "correct" and the one you used, I think, is not one of them.
> >
>
> Barbour's Werckmeister I is OUR Werckmeister III. Barbour left out
both just
> intonation and quarter comma meantone to start the list from
Werckmeister's
> preferred chromatic tuning.
>

***Oh... I see now that his #1 is your #3... Who'd a 'thunk it... :)

best,

JP

on 3/28/04 8:58 AM, Afmmjr@aol.com <Afmmjr@aol.com> wrote:

> In a message dated 3/27/04 9:57:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, jpehrson@rcn.com
> writes:
>
>
>> Thanks. This is very helpful. Actually, I find what you have
>> written above to be *much* more descriptive than just a list of the
>> scale with cents values above the pitches. That didn't do anything
>> for me at all with listening, but the above possibly could. This is
>> just my *own* opinion.
>
>
> Yes, it is your opinion. My opinion, after performing Werckmeister III Bach
> for several years, is that explaining how to tune up a keyboard does not aid
> in the listening and acceptance of the performance. It does not explain away
> the 39 different intervals, for example.

I agree that a simple description of a tuning such as you gave (and JP
liked) is not going to greatly enlighten an audience. It is also true that
people who are already familiar with a tuning may be more (or less)
enlightened by such a description.

But all that aside I think there is a distinction here that is not being
talked about. The description you gave is both a description of how to tune
and instrument *and* a description of the resulting tuning. A description
of how to tune an instrument is most likely not that interesting to an
audience, unless the audience is quite specialized. However, a description
of a tuning for what it *is* in its final result, what it *means* to the
musician, etc. this can be fleshed out to the point where it *is*
interesting to an audience. The much larger number of intervals can be
addressed. What does this mean *more* intervals? What is an interval? Can
the audience hear an interval? Of course they can. An interval is an
experience, in itself. An interval in a piece of music is part of a larger
experience. More different intervals means a richer experience. I'm not
saying that you *should* do this if you have no interest in it, but this can
be demonstrated by allowing people to hear intervals of different sizes so
they can recognize that the experiences are different. This does not have
to be stated in such a way as to suggest to the audience that they are
supposed to analyze music as they are hearing it. Rather it can be
explained in such a way as to wake them up to the possibility that what they
are about to experience may be in some way richer than music they might hear
elsewhere. Sharing of meaning can be an important part of priming an
audience for an actual experience. It is not even important that the
meaning is absolutely definitive in its content. It is common in some
situations for a performer to tell stories about a composer and their
musical meanings prior to a performance or even prior to an individual
piece. These are "just" stories but if they are good stores audiences do so
love them. A good story can enliven the listener so they are more open to
an experience. The importance here is more one of awakening and engaging
the audience rather than of imosing a particular bias on an experience. A
"story about a tuning" is another possible kind of story. I can be
meaningful, engaging. It may alert the listener that something potentially
much more meaningful "than usual" is about to happen for them. I think this
can be a good thing. Again I don't mean to suggest anything like an
obligation that any such thing be done. Rather I'd like to see each person
presenting things the way they *love* to present it. This may be different
for JP than for Johnny. What JP *wants* from a performance in terms of
"suportive" or "meaningful" material on the side may be different from what
Johnny wants. That's what makes life interesting.

Personally I like to offer as many different layers of meaning as possible
to an audience. My audiences are usually *very* small (so far). I also
sometimes make a point of *not* offering any specific information so that
people can have a clear enough experience of their own that they could form
their *own* words about it all. In a really small setting considerable
audience interaction is possible, and feedback from the audience can also be
quite enlivening. I feel as much responsibility as a "teacher" (for lack of
a better word) as a musician. I want to be a conveyer of experience, an
enlivener of experience. This is one of the things I love to do. I love it
because of what comes back to me as a result. I want to feel as fully
engaged as possible myself, so that I have the most to offer. We each can
create our own ways to go about this and need not stick with any traditional
forms regarding what is a "performance", etc. We can find what works for us
and what we like to do.

-Kurt

> Besides, we are not asking people in
> the concert situation to try tuning up instruments at home. For example, I
> did not and cannot explain how to put the scotch tape on either the oboe or
> the
> flute, or any other instrument. I suggest you just take in the musical
> experience and digest it and leave your intellect for later researches.
>
>>
>> I notice that Barbour defines some Werckmeister temperaments
>> as "correct" and the one you used, I think, is not one of them.
>>
>
> Barbour's Werckmeister I is OUR Werckmeister III. Barbour left out both just
> intonation and quarter comma meantone to start the list from Werckmeister's
> preferred chromatic tuning.
>
>> That's obviously Barbour's near 12-equal bias at work, I believe... :)
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>
> Obviously, you are drawing unnecessary conclusions. But I am glad you
> enjoyed the performances. best, Johnny :)
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Kurt Bigler <kkb@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52972.html#52988

> audience, unless the audience is quite specialized. However, a
description
> of a tuning for what it *is* in its final result, what it *means*
to the
> musician, etc. this can be fleshed out to the point where it *is*
> interesting to an audience. The much larger number of intervals
can be
> addressed. What does this mean *more* intervals? What is an
interval? Can
> the audience hear an interval? Of course they can.

***Hello Kurt!

Actually, in all fairness, Johnny *did* talk about this kind of thing
at the Werckmeister concert... He demonstrated different intervals.
I guess for *me* and it seems also Michael Harrison, because we have
a more specialized interest, we wanted to know where the "pure"
fifths were in the tuning without having to go home and research it.
As it turns out, it really isn't that easy to research, because the
big Jorgensen book on tuning doesn't have it in there for some
reason, and the Barbour book is quite confusing, calling Johnny's
Werckmeister tuning 3, Werckmeister 1... (!!)

Tonight, Sunday, Johnny did another concert that came off nicely. I
particularly liked a piece for viola and piano by Stephen Mayer and
Johnny's wonderful _Melanin_ was played superbly by Bram
Kreeftmeijer, a Dutch oboe player, I guess... It's a hard piece to
pull off... I've known the work for several years...

best,

JP

I missed these shows because I had a concert in Brooklyn last night,
and a rehersal this afternoon in Somerset, NJ today. I hope to
make the other AFMM shows.

--
* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

on 3/28/04 7:58 PM, Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Kurt Bigler <kkb@b...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_52972.html#52988
>
>> audience, unless the audience is quite specialized. However, a
> description
>> of a tuning for what it *is* in its final result, what it *means*
> to the
>> musician, etc. this can be fleshed out to the point where it *is*
>> interesting to an audience. The much larger number of intervals
> can be
>> addressed. What does this mean *more* intervals? What is an
> interval? Can
>> the audience hear an interval? Of course they can.
>
>
> ***Hello Kurt!
>
> Actually, in all fairness, Johnny *did* talk about this kind of thing
> at the Werckmeister concert... He demonstrated different intervals.

Oh, good to hear it. In any case I hope that neither Johnny nore anyone
took what I said as too directed at him. But I'm glad that some people are
giving these "talks" with their performances. This is the way I like to go.
At the other extreme, I know people who prefer not to even mention tuning to
an audience because they think it will scare some people off.

It might be interesting to hear some varied opinions and experiences in
relation to this. (If so, maybe we should start a new thread.)

-Kurt

Hi Kurt,

Yes, as Joseph pointed out, I do agree about creating a bond with your
audience. I do think about of charisma is in order, though. I've heard some very
dry "asides" during concerts that has not helped anything.

The Bach concert was different. I had already developed a radio persona for
my Microtonal Bach WKCR broadcasts on Christmas Day. I pretended it was an
open radio broadcast to set the mood.

However, I do not think it a good thing to mix messages. A concert is not an
academic affair. I prefer the intellect to be less engaged, for example. I
would not want the audience doing math problems during the music. For best
receptivity of listening, I want full focus from a listener.

In the concert last night, audience members actually called out questions,
which musicians immediately answered.

best, Johnny

best, Johnny

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> However, I do not think it a good thing to mix messages. A concert
is not an
> academic affair. I prefer the intellect to be less engaged, for
example. I
> would not want the audience doing math problems during the music.

Lagrange said he did some best work during concerts. Of course, he
also said that by note four he was no longer listening.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:21:37 -0000 Joseph wrote

> Well, it's not that easy to look up. I'm not even finding it here in
> my copy of Jorgensen's _Tuning..._, and I tried to find the tuning in
> there after the concert. I know you gave me a chart of the circle of
> fifths at one point, but I appear to have misplaced it, or it would
> probably take me hours to search for it...

Joseph,

This table may be useful to you in addition to Johnny's remarks.
Read down the columns.

http://www.midicode.com/tunings/temperament.shtml#T5K

( the second, coloured table if the link does not scroll to it )

Peter
www.midicode.com

On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:26:57 EST Johnny wrote

> Not incidentally, the oboist and flutist sounded excellent
> using scotch tape to adapt to Werckmeister III tuning.

Johnny,

I play the flute. Could you shed more light on this technique please?

Peter.
www.midicode.com

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Peter Frazer <paf@e...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52972.html#52997

>
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:21:37 -0000 Joseph wrote
>
> > Well, it's not that easy to look up. I'm not even finding it
here in
> > my copy of Jorgensen's _Tuning..._, and I tried to find the
tuning in
> > there after the concert. I know you gave me a chart of the
circle of
> > fifths at one point, but I appear to have misplaced it, or it
would
> > probably take me hours to search for it...
>
> Joseph,
>
> This table may be useful to you in addition to Johnny's remarks.
> Read down the columns.
>
> http://www.midicode.com/tunings/temperament.shtml#T5K
>
> ( the second, coloured table if the link does not scroll to it )
>
> Peter
> www.midicode.com

***Thanks, Peter... actually I'd forgotten about this... quite
colorful too...

JP

Hi Peter,

Yes, one can slightly alter the tone holes, or change the height of a key to
the body of the flute with scotch tape. In this particular case, with
Jennifer Grim, she did all the work. She put tape under key rims and over tone
holes. One clearly needs an open-hole flute. We keep C out of the a=440 set and
adjust accordingly.

Let me know if you want to get in contact with Ms. Grim. Johnny Reinhard

on 3/29/04 8:07 AM, Afmmjr@aol.com <Afmmjr@aol.com> wrote:

> Hi Kurt,
>
> Yes, as Joseph pointed out, I do agree about creating a bond with your
> audience. I do think about of charisma is in order, though. I've heard some
> very
> dry "asides" during concerts that has not helped anything.
>
> The Bach concert was different. I had already developed a radio persona for
> my Microtonal Bach WKCR broadcasts on Christmas Day. I pretended it was an
> open radio broadcast to set the mood.

Your excitement will come through. This I think will happen regardless of
what mask you wear.

> However, I do not think it a good thing to mix messages. A concert is not an
> academic affair. I prefer the intellect to be less engaged, for example.

Oh, yes, absolutely! However there is a subtlety: the intellect can engage
the passion. The content is not so important although it is of course
better not to be fibbing! Just don't talk about something that bores you!

> I
> would not want the audience doing math problems during the music. For best
> receptivity of listening, I want full focus from a listener.
>
> In the concert last night, audience members actually called out questions,
> which musicians immediately answered.

That's great. What did people ask? (Even if it is very basic.) Is this
too off-topic? I was bringing up something related to this in metatunings
once. I think it is a good way we can support each other and flesh out the
dialog here, to share experience, and to share the experiences of our
audiences.

-Kurt

on 3/29/04 9:46 AM, Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@svpal.org> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
>> However, I do not think it a good thing to mix messages. A concert
> is not an
>> academic affair. I prefer the intellect to be less engaged, for
> example. I
>> would not want the audience doing math problems during the music.
>
> Lagrange said he did some best work during concerts. Of course, he
> also said that by note four he was no longer listening.

Not consciously perhaps. But apparently the music was not just
"incidental", if I'm getting your meaning.

Although I have to admit I used to blast Led Zepelin when I needed to study
hard.

-Kurt

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:21:30 EST Johnny wrote

> Hi Peter,

> Yes, one can slightly alter the tone holes, or change the height of a key to
> the body of the flute with scotch tape. In this particular case, with
> Jennifer Grim, she did all the work. She put tape under key rims and over tone
> holes. One clearly needs an open-hole flute. We keep C out of the a=440 set and
> adjust accordingly.

> Let me know if you want to get in contact with Ms. Grim. Johnny Reinhard

Thank you, Johnny.

It had never occurred to me to try anything like that. However, as both my keyed
flutes are closed hole I will not pursue it at this time.

I would have liked to have been at the concert.

Peter
www.midicode.com

Congratulations, Johnny !
Dinarra is present at Microfest with my heart.

Eduardo

--
Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi
Simon Bolivar 1260
11300 Montevideo
Uruguay
Phone: (598)(2) 7080952
Webpage (Spanish): http://www.geocities.com/dinarra2000/dinarra.html
Webpage (English): http://members.nbci.com/drew_skyfire/xe/dinarra.html
IFIS Webpage: http://www.invention-ifia.ch
look for patent 101
DINARRA CD OFFER
/tuning/topicId_4269.html#4269
DINARRA TABLE
http://members.nbci.com/drew_skyfyre/xe/din_table.html

hi Joe (should i call you Joseph now too?),

have you forgotten to look in the Encyclopaedia of Tuning?

http://tonalsoft.com/enc/werckmeister.htm

AFAIK, Johnny has been using Werckmeister III for Bach.
Barbour calls this Werckmeister III "Correct Tuning No. 1".
comprehensive data is on my webpage.

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_52972.html#52978
>
> > In a message dated 3/27/04 2:31:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jpehrson@r...
> > writes:
> >
> >
> > > ***I guess I'm finding it here now in J. Murray Barbour's book.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Anyone could have told you on the List. 4 fifths flat,
> > 8 pure. Flat fifths are C-G, G-D, D-A, and B-F#. None
> > of this will help someone listen at a concert. Instead,
> > I gave the relations of all 12 notes starting on a C
> > for 0 cents. Good luck in Barbour.
> >
> > best, Johnny
>
>
> ***Hi Johnny,
>
> Thanks. This is very helpful. Actually, I find what you
> have written above to be *much* more descriptive than just
> a list of the scale with cents values above the pitches.
> That didn't do anything for me at all with listening, but
> the above possibly could. This is just my *own* opinion.
>
> I notice that Barbour defines some Werckmeister temperaments
> as "correct" and the one you used, I think, is not one of them.
>
> That's obviously Barbour's near 12-equal bias at work,
> I believe... :)
>
> best,
>
> Joseph

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:]

/tuning/topicId_52972.html#53007

> hi Joe (should i call you Joseph now too?),
>

***Hi Monz,

I'm not particular... just don't call me "monz"... :)

>
> have you forgotten to look in the Encyclopaedia of Tuning?
>
> http://tonalsoft.com/enc/werckmeister.htm
>

***Whoops... I had forgotten... sorry and thanks for the pointer...

Joe