"complex, xenharmonic, but somehow soothing"

>From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@svpal.org>

>Anyone have suggestions for music which is complex, xenharmonic, but
>somehow soothing?

as mentioned, I second Kraig Grady's music...

... don't forget
XJ Scott, www.nonoctave.com/

or Robert Rich

or the Hearts of Space label

and for head shrinkin' music ;) ex-headhunting Dayak tribal music with
zithers ... and as it has been said by many before, pretty much anything in Balinese
_pelog_ is definitely mind-warpingly beautiful...

And pretty much any of Jacky Ligon's work, but he - like Brian McLaren -
no longer have interests in sharing their stuff via the internet (much less
the list).
Tho' Ligon's case of isolationism _may_ change. It's tough convincing and
inspiring one of my music teacher/colleagues who has been so injured (dare I
say crippled by distrust and downright loathing?) by the Tuning List Civil
Wars to return to making his presence felt, *erp!*, heard on the web again.
It's a cryin' shame so many were alienated in said Civil Wars.
OK, Yeah, I, history-obsessed Chinaman that I am, am like totaaally
rubbin' the infamous TL Civil Wars in, cuz I, too, was hurt in the tail-end ;) of
said internal infernal snipin'... *gigglefit* Never ever get on the wrong-side
of a history-obsessed Chinaman: they are worst than pitbulls - they hate to
let go ::toothy grin::

enuff said, never ever enuff done

---|-----|--------|-------------|---------------------|
Hanuman Zhang, musical mad scientist: "Nah, I don't wanna take over the
world, just the sound spectrum to make it my home."

The German word for "noise" _Geräusch_ is derived from _rauschen_ "the
sound of the wind," related to _Rausch_ "ecstasy, intoxication" hinting at some
of the possible aesthetic, bodily effects of noise in music. In Japanese
Romaji: _uchu_ = "universe"... _uchoten_ = "ecstasty," "rapture"..._uchujin_ =
[space] alien!

"... simple, chaotic, anarchic and menacing.... This is what people of today
have lost and need most - the ability to experience permanent bodily and
mental ecstasy, to be a receiving station for messages howling by on the ether from
other worlds and nonhuman entities, those peculiar short-wave messages which
come in static-free in the secret pleasure center in the brain." - Slava Ranko
(Donald L. Philippi)

"When you're trying to do something you should feel absolutely alone, like a
spark in the blackness of the universe."-Xenakis

"The sky and its stars make music in you." - Dendera, Egypt wall
inscription

"What strange risk of hearing can bring sound to music - a hearing whose
obligation awakens a sensibility so new that it is forever a unique, new-born,
anti-death surprise, created now and now and now. .. a hearing whose moment
in time is always daybreak." - Lucia Dlugoszewski

"For twenty-five centuries, Western knowledge has tried to look upon the
world. It has failed to understand that the world is not for the beholding. It
is for the hearing. It is not legible, but audible. ... Music is a herald,
for change is inscribed in noise faster than it transforms society. ...
Listening to music is listening to all noise, realizing that its appropriation and
control is a reflection of power, that is essentially political." - Jacques
Attali, _Noise: The Political Economy of Music_

"...Then out to the flaming stars...
From then, eventually unshackle time,
and traverse galaxies..." - Lou Harrison

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52543.html#52543
>
> And pretty much any of Jacky Ligon's work, but he - like Brian
McLaren - no longer have interests in sharing their stuff via the
internet (much less
> the list).

***That's too bad, since *nobody* is going to make a living selling
contemporary music CDs... unless they are totally of a "popular"
bend. I doubt even John Adams can make a living from CDs. In fact,
it's actually kind of hard to find much of his music on CD, say on
Amazon.com...

J. Pehrson

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:
>
> >From: "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...>
>
> >Anyone have suggestions for music which is complex, xenharmonic,
but
> >somehow soothing?
>
> as mentioned, I second Kraig Grady's music...
>
> ... don't forget
> XJ Scott, www.nonoctave.com/
>
> or Robert Rich
>
> or the Hearts of Space label
>
> and for head shrinkin' music ;) ex-headhunting Dayak tribal music
with
> zithers ... and as it has been said by many before, pretty much
anything in Balinese
> _pelog_ is definitely mind-warpingly beautiful...
>
> And pretty much any of Jacky Ligon's work, but he - like Brian
McLaren -
> no longer have interests in sharing their stuff via the internet
(much less
> the list).
> Tho' Ligon's case of isolationism _may_ change. It's tough
convincing and
> inspiring one of my music teacher/colleagues who has been so
injured (dare I
> say crippled by distrust and downright loathing?) by the Tuning
List Civil
> Wars to return to making his presence felt, *erp!*, heard on the
web again.
> It's a cryin' shame so many were alienated in said Civil Wars.

Well, Jacky and I engaged in a lot of friendly correspondence off-
list after all this b.s. "went down", so I can't exactly buy your
interpretation here . . . anyway, any more on metatuning or
offlist . . .

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_52543.html#52543
> >
> > And pretty much any of Jacky Ligon's work, but he - like
Brian
> McLaren - no longer have interests in sharing their stuff via the
> internet (much less
> > the list).
>
> ***That's too bad, since *nobody* is going to make a living selling
> contemporary music CDs... unless they are totally of a "popular"
> bend. I doubt even John Adams can make a living from CDs. In
fact,
> it's actually kind of hard to find much of his music on CD, say on
> Amazon.com...

As I see it the real point of producing an "offical" CD, rather than
simply running one off on your computer, is to get it taken
seriously. A library wouldn't accept something I gave them with my
scribbling on it as a donation, after all. I don't know if Carl just
doesn't much like Prent's music, or if it's the fact that it isn't on
an "official" CD, but suspect the latter is the reason it isn't
listed.

In a lot of ways we haven't caught up with information technology. We
don't know how to evaluate books or music which don't have
publishers. In the academic world they've figured out one answer--the
peer reviewed, on-line journal.

>As I see it the real point of producing an "offical" CD, rather
>than simply running one off on your computer, is to get it taken
>seriously. A library wouldn't accept something I gave them with my
>scribbling on it as a donation, after all. I don't know if Carl just
>doesn't much like Prent's music, or if it's the fact that it isn't
>on an "official" CD, but suspect the latter is the reason it isn't
>listed.

I was one of the first here to take Prent's music seriously, and
positively review it. I've linked people both on and off these
lists to it literally dozens of times. If you look in the archives
you'll see I was consistently recommending it when nobody else was
even mentioning it. I maintain an archive with all of Prent's
releases, including multiple versions of many compositions. In 1999
I upsampled his mp3s, burned them to disc and drove with it to Boston,
where I played it for Paul, who didn't seem to have much interest.

There are two reasons it isn't on the lumma.org list:

() Prent has not presented an "album", virtual, burned or pressed,
to my knowledge. I consider the "album" to be the primary atomic
unit of contemporary music, like the sonata or concerto were in
their day.

() Even if I were to take my favorite tracks and call it an album,
it wouldn't make the list.

>In a lot of ways we haven't caught up with information technology.
>We don't know how to evaluate books or music which don't have
>publishers.

It is to laugh. I went paperless in 1995, and also started
burning cds that year, at 4X I might add.

One of the advantages of pressing is that the resulting cds are
far more hearty against scratches and the like. And unless you're
using expensive Kodak archival blanks, pressed cds have a much
longer shelf life. Libraries don't like burns for these reasons,
and also because it's more likely that burns are not original work
(and libraries don't have time to verify that sort of thing).

If you're selling any volume, pressing is cheaper than burning.

As for your scribbling, it's hideous. Artwork is and has always
been an important part of the "album". Unfortunately adhesive
labels tend to wrinkle in the cold, and don't like water. There
are inkjet-printable blanks, but everybody hates inkjet printing.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> There are two reasons it isn't on the lumma.org list:
>
> () Prent has not presented an "album", virtual, burned or pressed,
> to my knowledge. I consider the "album" to be the primary atomic
> unit of contemporary music, like the sonata or concerto were in
> their day.

And that is reason #2.

> () Even if I were to take my favorite tracks and call it an album,
> it wouldn't make the list.

This, on the other hand, is reason #1. My own opinion is that Prent
clearly deserves to be on your list, but it is *your* list; someone
giving an opinion serves us best by giving us what they really think
and not repreating what others are saying.

How does something get to be an "album" by your definition? Can a
record label create an album, or does it require the hand of a
composer?

> As for your scribbling, it's hideous.

I know that. I have it in my mind that my recent work has become less
amateurish, and maybe it's time to try another format for my next
album. But what, and how?

>This, on the other hand, is reason #1. My own opinion is that Prent
>clearly deserves to be on your list,

The list is limited to 10 entries. Have you heard all of the others?

>How does something get to be an "album" by your definition? Can a
>record label create an album, or does it require the hand of a
>composer?

It prefers the hand of the composer, but certainly doesn't require
it. The hand of the reviewer would be a bit presumptuous, however.

>> As for your scribbling, it's hideous.
>
>I know that. I have it in my mind that my recent work has become less
>amateurish, and maybe it's time to try another format for my next
>album. But what, and how?

I'd make each album a web page. Put your artwork at the top (I
think you are actually doing this for Christmas 2002 -- by the way,
was this actually Christmas 2001?). Provide both mp3 and ogg,
and for gods' sake, fill in the metadata! Make the titles in
the metadata and on the links on the webpage match. And include
a blurb, if you like, below each link (liner notes). And get
your provider to stop displaying your IP address, so you can give
each album a pretty url.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> >This, on the other hand, is reason #1. My own opinion is that
Prent
> >clearly deserves to be on your list,
>
> The list is limited to 10 entries. Have you heard all of the
others?

Not all, though you've inspired me to order Harrison now. Some of the
composers I *have* heard clearly belong on any top ten list. One of
them--Hobbs--has a link which just emails you, incidentally. I've not
heard Hobbs, nor Harrison (though that's about to change) nor the
Catler Brothers. All I know about Nitelife is that it's one of the
groups you gave us mp3s for, which I've often listened to.

> I'd make each album a web page. Put your artwork at the top (I
> think you are actually doing this for Christmas 2002 -- by the way,
> was this actually Christmas 2001?). Provide both mp3 and ogg,
> and for gods' sake, fill in the metadata! Make the titles in
> the metadata and on the links on the webpage match. And include
> a blurb, if you like, below each link (liner notes). And get
> your provider to stop displaying your IP address, so you can give
> each album a pretty url.

Not sure how to do the last, nor why it is important.

>Not all, though you've inspired me to order Harrison now. Some of the
>composers I *have* heard clearly belong on any top ten list. One of
>them--Hobbs--has a link which just emails you, incidentally.

That's because I'm the only source I know of for shrink-wrapped
copies of the album.

>I've not
>heard Hobbs, nor Harrison (though that's about to change) nor the
>Catler Brothers. All I know about Nitelife is that it's one of the
>groups you gave us mp3s for, which I've often listened to.

The mp3s should be sufficient for Nitelife. You absolutely must
own Crash Landing. It isn't optional.

>> I'd make each album a web page. Put your artwork at the top (I
>> think you are actually doing this for Christmas 2002 -- by the way,
>> was this actually Christmas 2001?). Provide both mp3 and ogg,
>> and for gods' sake, fill in the metadata! Make the titles in
>> the metadata and on the links on the webpage match. And include
>> a blurb, if you like, below each link (liner notes). And get
>> your provider to stop displaying your IP address, so you can give
>> each album a pretty url.
>
>Not sure how to do the last, nor why it is important.

Because when I enter...

http://xenharmony.org/bosanquet.html

...I get nothing. But when I enter...

http://66.98.148.43/~xenharmo/bosanquet.html

...I get something. The difference isn't that great with e-mail,
but if you want people to remember it, tell their friends, you
want to pass it out on paper, etc, etc. 66.98.148.43 is analogous
to the scribbling on the jacket.

-Carl

>>Not all, though you've inspired me to order Harrison now. Some of
>>the composers I *have* heard clearly belong on any top ten list.
>>One of them--Hobbs--has a link which just emails you, incidentally.
>
>That's because I'm the only source I know of for shrink-wrapped
>copies of the album.

It isn't soothing, btw. It's techno. The best techno I've ever
heard. Nor is Crash Landing soothing -- I'd call it jazz or fusion.

>>Not sure how to do the last, nor why it is important.
>
>Because when I enter...
>
>http://xenharmony.org/bosanquet.html
>
>...I get nothing. But when I enter...
>
>http://66.98.148.43/~xenharmo/bosanquet.html

Speaking of this page, one wouldh've thought you'dh've changed
the title to something other than "The Wedgie" by now...

-CArl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52543.html#52556

> >As I see it the real point of producing an "offical" CD, rather
> >than simply running one off on your computer, is to get it taken
> >seriously. A library wouldn't accept something I gave them with my
> >scribbling on it as a donation, after all. I don't know if Carl
just
> >doesn't much like Prent's music, or if it's the fact that it isn't
> >on an "official" CD, but suspect the latter is the reason it isn't
> >listed.
>
> I was one of the first here to take Prent's music seriously, and
> positively review it. I've linked people both on and off these
> lists to it literally dozens of times. If you look in the archives
> you'll see I was consistently recommending it when nobody else was
> even mentioning it. I maintain an archive with all of Prent's
> releases, including multiple versions of many compositions. In 1999
> I upsampled his mp3s, burned them to disc and drove with it to
Boston,
> where I played it for Paul, who didn't seem to have much interest.
>
> There are two reasons it isn't on the lumma.org list:
>
> () Prent has not presented an "album", virtual, burned or pressed,
> to my knowledge. I consider the "album" to be the primary atomic
> unit of contemporary music, like the sonata or concerto were in
> their day.
>

***Well, they sure don't *sell* for anything, and the labels, like
CRI are going out of business. In addition, as soon as an album is
done and all the money is spent, a composer is on to other things.
It's *frozen* in time and not current.

There's every indication that things are to be "cut" or "selection"-
based and not "album" based... now mostly seen in pop, but it will
expand.

I would *much* rather have hundreds of people viewing and listening
to music on a website than the chance occurrence that somebody would
buy the music of an unknown composer in a record store...

JP

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52543.html#52564

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_52543.html#52556
>
> > >As I see it the real point of producing an "offical" CD, rather
> > >than simply running one off on your computer, is to get it taken
> > >seriously. A library wouldn't accept something I gave them with
my
> > >scribbling on it as a donation, after all. I don't know if Carl
> just
> > >doesn't much like Prent's music, or if it's the fact that it
isn't
> > >on an "official" CD, but suspect the latter is the reason it
isn't
> > >listed.
> >
> > I was one of the first here to take Prent's music seriously, and
> > positively review it. I've linked people both on and off these
> > lists to it literally dozens of times. If you look in the
archives
> > you'll see I was consistently recommending it when nobody else was
> > even mentioning it. I maintain an archive with all of Prent's
> > releases, including multiple versions of many compositions. In
1999
> > I upsampled his mp3s, burned them to disc and drove with it to
> Boston,
> > where I played it for Paul, who didn't seem to have much interest.
> >
> > There are two reasons it isn't on the lumma.org list:
> >
> > () Prent has not presented an "album", virtual, burned or pressed,
> > to my knowledge. I consider the "album" to be the primary atomic
> > unit of contemporary music, like the sonata or concerto were in
> > their day.
> >
>
> ***Well, they sure don't *sell* for anything, and the labels, like
> CRI are going out of business. In addition, as soon as an album is
> done and all the money is spent, a composer is on to other things.
> It's *frozen* in time and not current.
>
> There's every indication that things are to be "cut" or "selection"-
> based and not "album" based... now mostly seen in pop, but it will
> expand.
>
> I would *much* rather have hundreds of people viewing and listening
> to music on a website than the chance occurrence that somebody
would
> buy the music of an unknown composer in a record store...
>
> JP

***Oh... Carl, I think I missed that you mentioned "virtual" albums
as a possibility...

However, I'm still an advocate of "selection"-basis and "mix and
match..."

JP

>> I consider the "album" to be the primary atomic
>> unit of contemporary music, like the sonata or concerto were in
>> their day.
>
>***Well, they sure don't *sell* for anything,

$17 seems like way too much to me, actually.

>and the labels, like CRI are going out of business.

CRI is history, and it sounds like New World is far from having
picked up the entire catalog.

>In addition, as soon as an album is
>done and all the money is spent, a composer is on to other things.
>It's *frozen* in time and not current.

As it should be. I think a 'musical blog' would be cool too,
but there's still a place for fixed works, I should think.

>I would *much* rather have hundreds of people viewing and listening
>to music on a website than the chance occurrence that somebody would
>buy the music of an unknown composer in a record store...

I totally agree, but there should be some artistic packaging. It
should be a collection of tracks, or the statement of it just
being a single track, with some sort of modus operandi behind it.
Just my preference.

-Carl

>***Oh... Carl, I think I missed that you mentioned "virtual" albums
>as a possibility...
>
>However, I'm still an advocate of "selection"-basis and "mix and
>match..."

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate a good pop song, competing with
all the other pop songs... nothing wrong with it. But if it
replaced the album, I would cry foul.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52543.html#52567

> >***Oh... Carl, I think I missed that you mentioned "virtual"
albums
> >as a possibility...
> >
> >However, I'm still an advocate of "selection"-basis and "mix and
> >match..."
>
> Don't get me wrong. I appreciate a good pop song, competing with
> all the other pop songs... nothing wrong with it. But if it
> replaced the album, I would cry foul.
>
> -Carl

***Well, everything I've been reading seems to suggest that a move in
this direction is already taken place. But, who knows, fads change
every day... :)

JP

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> > Don't get me wrong. I appreciate a good pop song, competing with
> > all the other pop songs... nothing wrong with it. But if it
> > replaced the album, I would cry foul.

> ***Well, everything I've been reading seems to suggest that a move
in
> this direction is already taken place. But, who knows, fads change
> every day... :)

That's for sure, and in any case this is technology driven. The album
as a singular artistic statement obviously presupposes the 33 1/3
recording format. It clearly emerges in Sargent Pepper, from 1967, as
a result of 33 1/3 surpassing the 45 single as the format of choice.
It has hung in there, since the CD, while designed to be large enough
to accomodate Beethoven's Ninth (an important icon of Japanese
culture) is not so much larger as to be an utterly different thing.

However, information technology has made it a bit obsolescent; the
implications of all this of course are shaking up the
music "industry" today. It's best days are probably behind it.

>> > Don't get me wrong. I appreciate a good pop song, competing with
>> > all the other pop songs... nothing wrong with it. But if it
>> > replaced the album, I would cry foul.
>
>> ***Well, everything I've been reading seems to suggest that a move
>> in this direction is already taken place. But, who knows, fads
>> change every day... :)
//
>However, information technology has made it a bit obsolescent; the
>implications of all this of course are shaking up the
>music "industry" today. It's best days are probably behind it.

Utter nonsense!

-Carl

>>>> Don't get me wrong. I appreciate a good pop song, competing
>>>> with all the other pop songs... nothing wrong with it. But
>>>> if it replaced the album, I would cry foul.
>>
>>>***Well, everything I've been reading seems to suggest that a move
>>>in this direction is already taken place. But, who knows, fads
>>>change every day... :)
>//
>>However, information technology has made it a bit obsolescent; the
>>implications of all this of course are shaking up the
>>music "industry" today. It's best days are probably behind it.
>
>Utter nonsense!

The critics said iTunes wouldn't sell any albums. For years, they
said, the industry had been ramming singles padded with 55 minutes
of crap down buyers' throats. But lo and behold, albums are about
as popular as single-song purchases on iTunes. It's because not all
consumers are pop-whores who listen only to pop, and not all artists
are pop-pimps who produce singles padded with 55 minutes of crap.
Listen to Gomez, Radiohead, or Porcupine Tree sometime.

This isn't technology driven. The artistic dynamic range of 3 min.
is generally less than that of 15. And while I have burnt many a
groove in many a cd listening to my favorite track again and again,
sometimes one wants a more lengthy listening experience. Sure, one
can make a mix of short tunes (in fact I have made many m3u mixes,
one of which was broadcast on Berkeley Liberation Radio), but
sometimes one wants a unified directed message from a single artist.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

Response on metatuning.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...>

/tuning/topicId_52543.html#52570

33 1/3 surpassing the 45 single as the format of choice.
> It has hung in there, since the CD, while designed to be large
enough to accomodate Beethoven's Ninth (an important icon of
Japanese
> culture)

***Hee, hee... that's very funny, Gene....

JP

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_52543.html#52572

> This isn't technology driven. The artistic dynamic range of 3 min.
> is generally less than that of 15. And while I have burnt many a
> groove in many a cd listening to my favorite track again and again,
> sometimes one wants a more lengthy listening experience. Sure, one
> can make a mix of short tunes (in fact I have made many m3u mixes,
> one of which was broadcast on Berkeley Liberation Radio), but
> sometimes one wants a unified directed message from a single
artist.
>
> -Carl

***Well, I'm personally thinking more of the "contemporary music"
end of things, where pieces are thrown together on albums
as "strange bedfellows" with no real connection except to fill the
CD.

A good example of this is my recording of _A People United Shall
Never Be Defeated_ by Rjewski -- a 50 minute triumph in it's own
right, that could be on, maybe three mp3s...

It's stuck together with the _Winsboro Cotton Mill Blues_ which,
while a nice eraly piece, is "CD-filler."

I'm really not talking about a 3-minute span here. SoundClick lets
people post mp3s up to 40 minutes, and that, generally speaking, is
as long as I need for a single piece. In fact, my pieces generally
average 10 minutes, and there is a good reason for that: they get
programmed.

JP

hi Gene,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:

> I've not heard Hobbs, nor Harrison (though that's about
> to change) nor the Catler Brothers.

your missing out! the Catler CDs are great!

(but i think that unfortunately some are now out of print)

-monz

hi Gene, Carl, Joe,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
>
> > > Don't get me wrong. I appreciate a good pop song,
> > > competing with all the other pop songs... nothing
> > > wrong with it. But if it replaced the album, I would
> > > cry foul.
>
> > ***Well, everything I've been reading seems to suggest
> > that a move in this direction is already taken place.
> > But, who knows, fads change every day... :)
>
> That's for sure, and in any case this is technology driven.
> The album as a singular artistic statement obviously
> presupposes the 33 1/3 recording format. It clearly emerges
> in Sargent Pepper, from 1967, as a result of 33 1/3 surpassing
> the 45 single as the format of choice.

which, in turn, was largely the result of FM radio, whose
late-night DJs in the '60s began playing entire albums
instead of individual songs. Gene is right that the
Beatles's _Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band_
was the first widely-noticed pop album to be conceived
as an entirety ... before that even 33 1/3 albums were
simply collections of individual 3-minute songs, which
had always been the format for AM radio ... and unfortunately
has now become universal again.

(i'll put any more on this on metatuning)

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...>
>
> /tuning/topicId_52543.html#52570
>
> 33 1/3 surpassing the 45 single as the format of choice.
> > It has hung in there, since the CD, while designed to be large
> enough to accomodate Beethoven's Ninth (an important icon of
> Japanese
> > culture)
>
> ***Hee, hee... that's very funny, Gene....

It may be funny, but it's true--Sony VP Norio Ogha, who was musically
trained and in charge of Sony's part of the joint project, insisted
that the CD be large enough to hold the Ninth. The longest Ninth in
the Phillips vaults--Furtwangler's 74 minutes from the 1951 Bayreuth
Festival--therefore set the timing of the CD. Aparently he had the
full backing of Sony on this one, probably because of the second true
fact noted below.

It is also a fact that the Ninth is an icon of Japanese culture. No
Christmas-New Years holidays would be complete without festive
performances of "Daiku", meaning "Great Nine". I've heard a story
that this goes back to a New Years radio broadcast of Daiku in
December, 1945, which millions listened to and which became sort of
anthem for renewed hope. In any case, here in the US we use it to
sell diamonds and nostrums, but in Japan Daiku is special.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...>

/tuning/topicId_52543.html#52578

wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...>
> >
> > /tuning/topicId_52543.html#52570
> >
> > 33 1/3 surpassing the 45 single as the format of choice.
> > > It has hung in there, since the CD, while designed to be large
> > enough to accomodate Beethoven's Ninth (an important icon of
> > Japanese
> > > culture)
> >
> > ***Hee, hee... that's very funny, Gene....
>
> It may be funny, but it's true--Sony VP Norio Ogha, who was
musically
> trained and in charge of Sony's part of the joint project,
insisted
> that the CD be large enough to hold the Ninth. The longest Ninth
in
> the Phillips vaults--Furtwangler's 74 minutes from the 1951
Bayreuth
> Festival--therefore set the timing of the CD. Aparently he had the
> full backing of Sony on this one, probably because of the second
true
> fact noted below.
>
> It is also a fact that the Ninth is an icon of Japanese culture.
No
> Christmas-New Years holidays would be complete without festive
> performances of "Daiku", meaning "Great Nine". I've heard a story
> that this goes back to a New Years radio broadcast of Daiku in
> December, 1945, which millions listened to and which became sort
of
> anthem for renewed hope. In any case, here in the US we use it to
> sell diamonds and nostrums, but in Japan Daiku is special.

***Thanks for the cultural update, Gene. I guess the rest should go
on metatuning, although I must admit that the vocal quartet near the
end of the Ninth always sounds a bit microtonal to me... :)

JP

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:

> It may be funny, but it's true...

...and...

> It is also a fact that the Ninth is an icon of Japanese culture.

Gene is absolutely correct on the above. It really is a phenomenon of contemporary (with last 100 years) Japanese culture.

Cheers,
Jon