Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning the Ztar - response to monz, Werner and Sethares

monz wrote:

i actually worked for Harvey Starr briefly, on some of the
microzones. i've posted some things about the Ztar, and
still hope to get one myself.

list-member Graham Breed has one. Graham?

i have some examples of microtonal mappings to the Ztar here:

http://tonalsoft.com/enc/72edo.htm

Thanks for the welcome. I followed your link and found that the first of
the two Ztar mappings is consistent with one I had been imagining. I was
also fascinated by the info on 72 edo, which I hadn't heard much about.

Werner Mohrlok wrote:

Hi Andrew,

I don' know the Ztar but I know that the "FM7" of Native Instruments
supports the MIDI data format "Scale Octave Tuning Real Time". With this
data format it is possible to control every MIDI Note to "every frequency"
by a fineness of about 1/164 Cents "in abstract". There exists also a second
instrument at Native Instruments which supports this data format, but I
forgot the name. You can ask Michael Kurz at Native Instruments:
michael@native-instruments.de
"In abstract" means: I don't know whether the internal system of this
instrument supports such a high fineness. Ask Michael Kurz.
"Every frequency" means every frequency between the deepest and the highest
tone of the referred instrument

There exist, too, physical electronic instruments which support this data
format: All actual VIRUS syntesizers of ACCESS:
www.kemper-digital.com
These instruments support this tuning fineness not only "in abstract" but,
too, in reality.

Informations in the MIDI data format "Scale Octave Tuning Real Time" you
will find at
www.midi.org

If you will not find them I can send you these informations directly. In
this case please write me by
wmohrlok@hermode.com

Werner Mohrlok

Thank you. I have been experimenting with the demo version of the FM7, and
have found it to work quite well. I don't know exactly what direction I
want to go in acquiring a synth, but I will probably opt for software. I
understand that the program "Li'l Miss Scale Oven," retunes synths that are
theoretically not retunable, and so finding a retunable synth might not be a
concern for me. I appreciate your information.

Bill Sethares wrote:

Andrew, I have a Ztar and have been using it for a number of
years. It's a fine instrument, it plays well, and is nice for
microtonal work because its not a one dimensional array.
Of course, it still isnt perfect...

I use a lot of different software - Max is great for customizing
the interface and for doing the kinds of adaptive tuning things.
I also use Bitheadz Unity as a software sampler
(reasonable tuning table support). I also use a (hardware)
sampler, an ASR-10.

In case you haven't heard it, most of the music on my
website was played with the Ztar
and then multitracked... all of it is in non-12 tunings:

http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~sethares/otherperson/all_mp3s.html

As for what scales to use for the fretboard - this is a vast
terrain. I find that with each new tuning or temperament I try a
bunch of things and then settle on one that seems to work.
I have yet to find any universal principles though I toss
out a few ideas at:

http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~sethares/alternatetunings/alternatetunings.html

--Bill Sethares

How encouraging that you use a Ztar for your work and find it fine, well and
nice! I have heard some of your music on your website, and I had no idea it
was a Ztar controlling your synths. You say that the instrument is not
perfect. Of course, nothing is, but I was wondering what things in
particular do you find it lacking?

Thanks,
Andrew Heathwaite

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🔗Bill Sethares <sethares@ece.wisc.edu>

Andrew Heathwaite wrote:

>How encouraging that you use a Ztar for your work and find it fine,
well and
>nice! I have heard some of your music on your website, and I had no
idea it
>was a Ztar controlling your synths. You say that the instrument is not
>perfect. Of course, nothing is, but I was wondering what things in
>particular do you find it lacking?

My main complaint is that the "aftertouch" is not very reliable
nor consistent across the fretboard. I find the user interface somewhat
cumbersome, and have taken to doing most of the string-retuning in
software (Max) rather than using the built-in methods. Finally, I "paid
extra" to have a breath controller input - though it functions, it does
not do so smoothly or consistently.

Let me add, however, that I have played extensively on Roland
pitch-coversion guitars and on the "beetle quantar" which used the
infrared technology. The Ztar is far better than either of these
alternatives, which is why I hesitate to voice my complaints too
strongly. (But since you asked...)

--Bill Sethares

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

🔗Kalle Aho <kalleaho@mappi.helsinki.fi>

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

🔗Werner Mohrlok <wmohrlok@hermode.com>

-----Ursprï¿½ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joseph Pehrson [mailto:jpehrson@rcn.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Dezember 2003 05:09
An: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Betreff: [tuning] Re: the Ztar - response to monz, Werner and Sethares

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Heathwaite <gtrpkt@y...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_50077.html#50077

> Werner Mohrlok wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> I don' know the Ztar but I know that the "FM7" of Native Instruments
> supports the MIDI data format "Scale Octave Tuning Real Time". With
this
> data format it is possible to control every MIDI Note to "every
frequency"
> by a fineness of about 1/164 Cents "in abstract". There exists also
a second
> instrument at Native Instruments which supports this data format,
but I
> forgot the name.

> ***I had a copy of the FM7 and was playing around with it, but at
> least the copy *I* had was limited to 12 pitches per octave... it
> was not "full range..."

> Joseph Pehrson

Hi Joseph,

maybe we speak of two different subjects.
Maybe one cannot retune the frequencies by the user interface.
I don't possess the FM7 therefore I cannot answer this.
But Native said me that the FM7 supports tuning messages, sent by
"MIDI Single Note Tuning Change Real Time".
Therefore, one should possess or create a suitable tool for
such tuning messages.

best
Werner

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🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Werner Mohrlok" <wmohrlok@h...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_50077.html#50164

> Hi Joseph,
>
> maybe we speak of two different subjects.
> Maybe one cannot retune the frequencies by the user interface.
> I don't possess the FM7 therefore I cannot answer this.
> But Native said me that the FM7 supports tuning messages, sent by
> "MIDI Single Note Tuning Change Real Time".
> Therefore, one should possess or create a suitable tool for
> such tuning messages.
>
> best
> Werner
>
>***Hi Werner,

Well, actually, it's simpler than that. The version of the FM7 that
I was "messing around" with only allowed a person to tune 12 notes
(P. W. Sault would love it! :) It let a person "deviate" each of
the 12 pitches and the octave would be replicated throughout the
entire range. (Many hardware synths work this way, of course, too...)

But, now I hear an update is available that will make it possible to
tune pitches throughout the entire range meaning that each octave
doesn't have to be the same...

best,

Joseph

🔗Werner Mohrlok <wmohrlok@hermode.com>

-----Ursprï¿½ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Joseph Pehrson [mailto:jpehrson@rcn.com]
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Dezember 2003 15:19
An: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Betreff: [tuning] Re: the Ztar - response to monz, Werner and Sethares

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Werner Mohrlok" <wmohrlok@h...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_50077.html#50164

> Hi Joseph,
>
> maybe we speak of two different subjects.
> Maybe one cannot retune the frequencies by the user interface.

>***Hi Werner,

> Well, actually, it's simpler than that. The version of the FM7 that
> I was "messing around" with only allowed a person to tune 12 notes
> (P. W. Sault would love it! :) It let a person "deviate" each of
> the 12 pitches and the octave would be replicated throughout the
> entire range. (Many hardware synths work this way, of course, too...)

> But, now I hear an update is available that will make it possible to
> tune pitches throughout the entire range meaning that each octave
> doesn't have to be the same...

> best,

> Joseph

Hi Joseph

indeed, with the MIDI data format, I mentioned: "Single Note Tuning
Change Real Time" one can change the tuning of eyery of all 128 notes
separately and to every desired frequency.
And it changes in real time. This means: Even notes which
are "on" will change its frequency.

You possess the documentation of this MIDI message? - If not, please
write me directly.

best
Werner

the Ztar - response to monz, Werner and Sethares

🔗Andrew Heathwaite <gtrpkt@yahoo.com>

🔗Bill Sethares <sethares@ece.wisc.edu>

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

🔗Kalle Aho <kalleaho@mappi.helsinki.fi>

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

🔗Werner Mohrlok <wmohrlok@hermode.com>

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

🔗Werner Mohrlok <wmohrlok@hermode.com>