Re: standards

boy, Yahoo's "space-saving 'feature'" *really* sucks!

apparently, even "Expand Messages" doesn't keep diagrams
spaced correctly if you post them from the Yahoo website
interface.

i'm trying again from my email sender. hope it works
this time.

---------------

for example, here's a portion of the Johnston lattice:
(view in "Expand Messages" mode on the Yahoo website)

F# .. C# .. G# .. D#
/ \ / \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \ / \
D-... A ... E ... B ... F#+
\ / \ / \ / \ / \
\ / \ / \ / \ / \
F ... C ... G ... D ... A+

this subset is the diatonic C-major scale, upon which
the notation is based:

A ... E ... B
/ \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \
F ... C ... G ... D

notes which have a sharp (#) are a 24:25 higher than
those 7 nominals.

simply modulating from C-major to its *nearest* relative,
G-major, invokes this monstrosity:

E ... B ... F#+
/ \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \
C ... G ... D ... A+

yuck.

in my HEWM, they are simply:

C-major:

A-... E-... B-
/ \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \
F ... C ... G ... D

G-major:

E-... B-... F#-
/ \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \
C ... G ... D ... A

entire example lattice:

F#--..C#--..G#--..D#--
/ \ / \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ / \ / \
D-... A-... E-... B-... F#-
\ / \ / \ / \ / \
\ / \ / \ / \ / \
F ... C ... G ... D ... A

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, <monz@a...> wrote:
> boy, Yahoo's "space-saving 'feature'" *really* sucks!
>
> apparently, even "Expand Messages" doesn't keep diagrams
> spaced correctly if you post them from the Yahoo website
> interface.
>
> i'm trying again from my email sender. hope it works
> this time.

sorry all ... that was intended for the tuning-math list.

but anyway, the answer is that no, "Expand Messages"
apparently no longer preserves the correct spacing either.

i've entertained the idea of hosting the tuning lists on
my software company's website, when it's up and running
(within the next 4 months or so). feedback, please.

-monz

>boy, Yahoo's "space-saving 'feature'" *really* sucks!

Along with the rest of the web interface, which I don't
use. Diagrams show up fine on my end monz, no worries.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> but anyway, the answer is that no, "Expand Messages"
> apparently no longer preserves the correct spacing either.

our entire archives are now f****d. i suggest we ask yahoo to fix
this, or if they can't, move this list off. it's not serving our
needs anymore. not to mention 5 years of good work destroyed!

>> but anyway, the answer is that no, "Expand Messages"
>> apparently no longer preserves the correct spacing either.
>
>our entire archives are now f****d. i suggest we ask yahoo to fix
>this, or if they can't, move this list off. it's not serving our
>needs anymore. not to mention 5 years of good work destroyed!

I suspect (hope!) the messages are intact, that their html
renderer has just gotten frisky.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >> but anyway, the answer is that no, "Expand Messages"
> >> apparently no longer preserves the correct spacing either.
> >
> >our entire archives are now f****d. i suggest we ask yahoo to fix
> >this, or if they can't, move this list off. it's not serving our
> >needs anymore. not to mention 5 years of good work destroyed!
>
> I suspect (hope!) the messages are intact, that their html
> renderer has just gotten frisky.
>
> -Carl

clicking on 'view source' doesn't resolve the problem . . .

>clicking on 'view source' doesn't resolve the problem . . .

Last I checked, 'view source' still goes through the html
renderer.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >clicking on 'view source' doesn't resolve the problem . . .
>
> Last I checked, 'view source' still goes through the html
> renderer.
>
> -Carl

we're screwed.

i've just looked back thru several years of the archives,
using "Expand Messages" mode, and now none of the lattice
diagrams are correct, because all of the "superfluous"
spaces have been removed.

i'm glad that i have most of the tuning list posts saved
with the proper formatting in my Microsoft Outlook ... but
since the big virus hassle of last month i've stopped
receiving all Yahoo posts as emails, so i don't have copies
of anything past August 2003.

this really sucks.

as i said, i'd be happy to host all of the tuning lists
on my company's website, when it's up and running in a
few months.

-monz

>i've just looked back thru several years of the archives,
>using "Expand Messages" mode, and now none of the lattice
>diagrams are correct, because all of the "superfluous"
>spaces have been removed.

The spaces haven't been removed. They just aren't displayed.
The problem will be getting ahold of someone at yahoo who
can fix this, or give us access to the raw messages.

>as i said, i'd be happy to host all of the tuning lists
>on my company's website, when it's up and running in a
>few months.

Does that mean you'll pay to buy/admin the software that
runs the list?

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> > [me, monz]
> > i've just looked back thru several years of the archives,
> > using "Expand Messages" mode, and now none of the lattice
> > diagrams are correct, because all of the "superfluous"
> > spaces have been removed.
>
> The spaces haven't been removed. They just aren't displayed.
> The problem will be getting ahold of someone at yahoo who
> can fix this, or give us access to the raw messages.

yeah, well, good luck with that. i've tried *many* times
to contact someone at Yahoo and have never been successful.

> > as i said, i'd be happy to host all of the tuning lists
> > on my company's website, when it's up and running in a
> > few months.
>
> Does that mean you'll pay to buy/admin the software that
> runs the list?

yes, absolutely.

we were planning and hoping all along that we'd eventually
be able to sponsor the tuning lists ... but thanks to the
problems created by this Yahoo "space-saving feature",
it's come up earlier than we anticipated now.

so i can't give any good estimate on how soon we'll be able
to migrate the lists over to our website ... but it should
be within the next few months.

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> we were planning and hoping all along that we'd eventually
> be able to sponsor the tuning lists ... but thanks to the
> problems created by this Yahoo "space-saving feature",
> it's come up earlier than we anticipated now.

"We"? We need a corporate and long-term commitment; I hope that is
what you are offering.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> > but anyway, the answer is that no, "Expand Messages"
> > apparently no longer preserves the correct spacing either.
>
> our entire archives are now f****d. i suggest we ask yahoo to fix
> this, or if they can't, move this list off. it's not serving our
> needs anymore. not to mention 5 years of good work destroyed!

It isn't lost. Yov can still get to see the correct formatting by
clicking on "Forward" and emailing it to yovrself.

I think the only way to get a message to Yahoo management abovt this
problem will be to write it on paper and send it snail-mail.

-- Daue Keenan

Daue,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Keenan" <d.keenan@b...> wrote:
> It isn't lost. Yov can still ...

I haue no idea how yovr tongve got stvck in yovr cheek, but it svre made me crack vp. Uery fvnny...

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> Daue,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Keenan" <d.keenan@b...> wrote:
> > It isn't lost. Yov can still ...
>
> I haue no idea how yovr tongve got stvck in yovr cheek, but it svre
made me crack vp. Uery fvnny...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

I'm glad yov liked it. I'd like to keep it vp vntil Joseph cries
"vncle", bvt I'm afraid I won't be able to stand it myself. :->

hi Gene,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> > we were planning and hoping all along that we'd eventually
> > be able to sponsor the tuning lists ... but thanks to the
> > problems created by this Yahoo "space-saving feature",
> > it's come up earlier than we anticipated now.
>
> "We"? We need a corporate and long-term commitment;
> I hope that is what you are offering.

by "we" i refer to Tonalsoft, my company.

a corporate and long-term commitment is *exactly* what
we're offering. as long as i'm alive, i'll sponsor the
tuning lists.

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> a corporate and long-term commitment is *exactly* what
> we're offering. as long as i'm alive, i'll sponsor the
> tuning lists.

That's good for a start. We really need to organize so that no matter
what happens to you, the list goes on.

Hi there,

The Discuss message board may be of interest if we
migrate:

http://www.discussware.com

Robert

Sorry,
http://www.discusware.com/

Robert

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Keenan" <d.keenan@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_48110.html#48134

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> >
> > > but anyway, the answer is that no, "Expand Messages"
> > > apparently no longer preserves the correct spacing either.
> >
> > our entire archives are now f****d. i suggest we ask yahoo to
fix
> > this, or if they can't, move this list off. it's not serving our
> > needs anymore. not to mention 5 years of good work destroyed!
>
> It isn't lost. Yov can still get to see the correct formatting by
> clicking on "Forward" and emailing it to yovrself.
>
> I think the only way to get a message to Yahoo management abovt
this
> problem will be to write it on paper and send it snail-mail.
>
> -- Daue Keenan

***I'm a little behind on my activities here... (who was it who
was "a little behind in his work...?") but I just had one comment,
and that's that I really don't think that putting lattices in the
body of these forum emails is the best way to go anyway.

They should be saved as some kind of graphic *file* in the files
section or on some website. Certainly, the way things have
been "behaving" around here now, this is the way it should be done...

JP

>Sorry,
>http://www.discusware.com/
>
>Robert

That does look good.

Here's something...

http://caucuscare.com/

...It's less like a list, and more like the WELL.

Speaking of the WELL, it's a subscription service, but
it might be worth looking into. They use picospan,
which is probably freely available, but the web
interface ("engaged") may be proprietary.

-Carl

http://thinkofit.com/webconf/

"A comprehensive guide to software that powers discussions
on the internet."

-Carl

>Speaking of the WELL, it's a subscription service, but
>it might be worth looking into. They use picospan,
>which is probably freely available, but the web
>interface ("engaged") may be proprietary.

http://www.wellengaged.com

...what the... Well, this looks thoroughly evil...

-Carl

on 10/23/03 6:32 AM, Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Keenan" <d.keenan@b...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_48110.html#48134
>
>
>> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
>>> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> but anyway, the answer is that no, "Expand Messages"
>>>> apparently no longer preserves the correct spacing either.
>>>
>>> our entire archives are now f****d. i suggest we ask yahoo to
> fix
>>> this, or if they can't, move this list off. it's not serving our
>>> needs anymore. not to mention 5 years of good work destroyed!
>>
>> It isn't lost. Yov can still get to see the correct formatting by
>> clicking on "Forward" and emailing it to yovrself.
>>
>> I think the only way to get a message to Yahoo management abovt
> this
>> problem will be to write it on paper and send it snail-mail.
>>
>> -- Daue Keenan
>
>
> They should be saved as some kind of graphic *file* in the files
> section or on some website. Certainly, the way things have
> been "behaving" around here now, this is the way it should be done...

Yet there is nothing like text for immediate availability. Yahoo problems
are a poor reason to give up on text (and a good reason go get off yahoo).

Embedded web links are great but references to file download areas are
sometimes (too often) too indirect for information that is intended to be
"embedded" in an email.

Mind you yahoo's manging of email often enough wrecks web links (along with
email addresses), especially in quoted material.

-Kurt

>
> JP

>> They should be saved as some kind of graphic *file* in the files
>> section or on some website. Certainly, the way things have
>> been "behaving" around here now, this is the way it should be done...

They are in a file, somewhere, we just can't get to them. Graphics
are a baaad idea, because they're enormous, illegible, and you loose
search.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Keenan" <d.keenan@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_48110.html#48136

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> > Daue,
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Keenan" <d.keenan@b...>
wrote:
> > > It isn't lost. Yov can still ...
> >
> > I haue no idea how yovr tongve got stvck in yovr cheek, but it
svre
> made me crack vp. Uery fvnny...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jon
>
> I'm glad yov liked it. I'd like to keep it vp vntil Joseph cries
> "vncle", bvt I'm afraid I won't be able to stand it myself. :->

***Well, Dave, you happened to prove my point perfectly! When I
first read your message I didn't notice the trick substitution,
meaning that I had completely mistaken v for u!

Same with the arrows! :)

JP

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_48110.html#48137

> hi Gene,
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...>
wrote:
>
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> >
> > > we were planning and hoping all along that we'd eventually
> > > be able to sponsor the tuning lists ... but thanks to the
> > > problems created by this Yahoo "space-saving feature",
> > > it's come up earlier than we anticipated now.
> >
> > "We"? We need a corporate and long-term commitment;
> > I hope that is what you are offering.
>
>
>
> by "we" i refer to Tonalsoft, my company.
>
> a corporate and long-term commitment is *exactly* what
> we're offering. as long as i'm alive, i'll sponsor the
> tuning lists.
>

***The way you've been riding motorcycles, we might want to "hedge
our bets..." :)

JP

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_48110.html#48137
>
>
> > hi Gene,
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > we were planning and hoping all along that we'd eventually
> > > > be able to sponsor the tuning lists ... but thanks to the
> > > > problems created by this Yahoo "space-saving feature",
> > > > it's come up earlier than we anticipated now.
> > >
> > > "We"? We need a corporate and long-term commitment;
> > > I hope that is what you are offering.
> >
> >
> >
> > by "we" i refer to Tonalsoft, my company.
> >
> > a corporate and long-term commitment is *exactly* what
> > we're offering. as long as i'm alive, i'll sponsor the
> > tuning lists.
> >
>
> ***The way you've been riding motorcycles, we might want
> to "hedge our bets..." :)

yeah, funny ... don't worry about it, joe. the company will
sponsor the tuning lists whether i'm around or not.

-monz

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> yeah, funny ... don't worry about it, joe. the company will
> sponsor the tuning lists whether i'm around or not.

I wonder if perhaps we should have a foundation or nonprofit
corporation.

>> yeah, funny ... don't worry about it, joe. the company will
>> sponsor the tuning lists whether i'm around or not.
>
>I wonder if perhaps we should have a foundation or nonprofit
>corporation.

I think that's a good idea.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_48110.html#48185

> >> yeah, funny ... don't worry about it, joe. the company will
> >> sponsor the tuning lists whether i'm around or not.
> >
> >I wonder if perhaps we should have a foundation or nonprofit
> >corporation.
>
> I think that's a good idea.
>
> -Carl

***I also agree. However, it is quite a bit of work to set up a
corporation and non-profit. I know, since I've been there...

JP

on 10/25/03 8:24 AM, Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com> wrote:

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_48110.html#48185
>
>>>> yeah, funny ... don't worry about it, joe. the company will
>>>> sponsor the tuning lists whether i'm around or not.
>>>
>>> I wonder if perhaps we should have a foundation or nonprofit
>>> corporation.
>>
>> I think that's a good idea.
>>
>> -Carl
>
>
> ***I also agree. However, it is quite a bit of work to set up a
> corporation and non-profit. I know, since I've been there...

Yes, me too.

-Kurt

>
> JP
>
>
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold for
> the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>