Fluid tuning

Anyone know more about this?
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,886739,00.html

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_44011.html#44011

>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,886739,00.html

***This is pretty funny as there is no mention at all of "how it
works..." I'm assuming it still has 12 pitches per octave. But, is
it mechanical?? whoknows!

JP

Opera singers around the world already practice fluid tunings--In other
words, if a grand piano plays a lone low F, and the singer sings an Ab,
it will tend toward the pure minor third (6/5) above the
equal-temperment F. If, then, the piano plays a lone E, the singer
will naturally adjust, often without his/her knowledge, to the pure
major third (5/4) above the equal-tempered E. You can try this
yourself at a piano!

These notes are
12-tet F: 349.2 hz
Pure minor third above: 419 hz
12-tet E: 329.6 hz
Pure major third above: 412 hz
By comparison, the 12-tet Ab/G# is 415.3 hz

So the voice will naturally adjust by a great deisis comma, modified
somewhat by equal-temperment.

Louis,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Louis_Nelson@a... wrote:
> Opera singers around the world already practice fluid tunings...

Oh, how I *wish* your example would have been anything _but_ "opera singers". Even given the variety of style, projection, training, etc., there is more ingrained wide-wobble and abusive vibrato in 'classic' operatic delivery than any other Western musical form I can think of (well, maybe traditional Theremin performance).

I don't say this in a mean-spirited way, but I have just finished the opera season, the last production being Butterfly. There is a quintet or sextet about half-way through the opera that defied description. I honestly wanted to sneak my minidisc into the pit because I was sure many musicians (and note I don't say simply "instrumentalists", as there are classical singers I admire greatly) would not *believe* the accumulated wobble-tones. With years of performance and hard work on ear-training, I'll be damned if I could identify the nature, intonation, or even basic spellings of the chords that occured during this section.

Yes, opera singer most likely practice a fluid tuning. Probably a better example would be string quartets, but if one wanted to support the moving of pitches toward consonant intervals it might be fruitful to pick vocal works/styles/ensembles that would be performened mostly without the obfuscation of vibrato. Much Rennaissance music, as well as madrigals, etc., would come to mind.

Cheers,
Jon (whose ears are just recovering from a woman singing Butterfly as if she had just come from the musical saw factory...)

Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> > Anyone know more about this?
<snip>
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,886739,00.html

No, but he's also mentioned in the blurb for the Radio 4 programmes going out tomorrow and next week.

Graham

hi Jon,

thanks for the review! i was hoping to
see some of the San Diego Opera productions
this year, especially _Butterfly_, but missed
every one of them. now i'm not so disappointed! :)

-monz

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:32 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Fluid tuning

> Louis,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Louis_Nelson@a... wrote:
> > Opera singers around the world already practice fluid tunings...
>
> Oh, how I *wish* your example would have been anything _but_ "opera
singers". Even given the variety of style, projection, training, etc., there
is more ingrained wide-wobble and abusive vibrato in 'classic' operatic
delivery than any other Western musical form I can think of (well, maybe
traditional Theremin performance).
>
> I don't say this in a mean-spirited way, but I have just finished the
opera season, the last production being Butterfly. There is a quintet or
sextet about half-way through the opera that defied description. I honestly
wanted to sneak my minidisc into the pit because I was sure many musicians
(and note I don't say simply "instrumentalists", as there are classical
singers I admire greatly) would not *believe* the accumulated wobble-tones.
With years of performance and hard work on ear-training, I'll be damned if I
could identify the nature, intonation, or even basic spellings of the chords
that occured during this section.
>
> Yes, opera singer most likely practice a fluid tuning. Probably a better
example would be string quartets, but if one wanted to support the moving of
pitches toward consonant intervals it might be fruitful to pick vocal
works/styles/ensembles that would be performened mostly without the
obfuscation of vibrato. Much Rennaissance music, as well as madrigals, etc.,
would come to mind.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon (whose ears are just recovering from a woman singing Butterfly as if
she had just come from the musical saw factory...)

This piano mechanism the article describes seems incredible , unbelievable , outlandish!

How come very few of you talked about it?

There was also an article on the WIRE magazine about Mr Smith , and called the thing "microtonal fluid tuning mechanism"

On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 01:23 AM, Gene Ward Smith wrote:

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> http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,886739,00.html
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>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,886739,00.html
>
>This piano mechanism the article describes seems incredible ,
>unbelievable, outlandish!
>
>How come very few of you talked about it?

Because there's nothing to talk about -- no details have been
given as to...

() How it works.
() How long it takes to retune the instrument.
() How many times a day an instrument can be retuned.
() How many cents +/- the thing can be tuned.
() What stage of development it's in, how much it will cost.

...I'm waiting until after the 10th, when the BBC Radio 4
programme might become available on the web.

However, I believe I sent this around a while back...

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993143

...this scheme uses electricity to change the temperature of
the strings, but can apparently only lower their pitch, and
only enough to keep the instrument set to a given temperament,
not switch between them. According to the article, this is
due to ship in some Story & Clark pianos by the end of this
year.

It was also Story & Clark, IIRC, that made DS Keyboard's reduced-
width keyboards available as an option a few years back. Kudos
to them for daring, even if they did later discontinue the option.
The trouble was, once you get used to playing on the narrower keys,
it was very disruptive to go back to regular ones. But heck,
there are a lot of excellent female pianists with smaller hands
than I.

http://www.steinbuhler.com/

Now back to your regularly schedule temperament.

-Carl

>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,886739,00.html
>>
>>This piano mechanism the article describes seems incredible ,
>>unbelievable, outlandish!
>>
>>How come very few of you talked about it?
>
>Because there's nothing to talk about -- no details have been
>given as to...
>
>() How it works.
>() How long it takes to retune the instrument.
>() How many times a day an instrument can be retuned.
>() How many cents +/- the thing can be tuned.
>() What stage of development it's in, how much it will cost.
>
>...I'm waiting until after the 10th, when the BBC Radio 4
>programme might become available on the web.

Sounds like moveable bridges. I wonder if this could work?

He let it drop that he's patented it. But I can't find it at...

http://gb.espacenet.com/

...or at uspto.

-Carl