Luciano Berio is gone

Luciano Berio is gone.

http://www.lamediatheque.be/travers_sons/berio.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2942454.stm

First Xenakis, now Berio. We're losing a generation of amazing people. Sad that they aren't given the respect they so richly deserve. All those Stockhausen bashers for example need a reality check of both their own achievements and those of these giants.

- Joel

>

never really took part in the stockhausen bashing but by 1975 i realized that what they were doing
was a dead end and started working in
microtonality. that my acheivement. they had the advantage of alot of PR and basically ruined it
for those after them

>
> From: Joel Rodrigues <jdrodrigues@Phreaker.net>
> Subject: Luciano Berio is gone
>
> Luciano Berio is gone.
>
> http://www.lamediatheque.be/travers_sons/berio.htm
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2942454.stm
>
> First Xenakis, now Berio. We're losing a generation of amazing
> people. Sad that they aren't given the respect they so richly
> deserve. All those Stockhausen bashers for example need a
> reality check of both their own achievements and those of these
> giants.
>
> - Joel
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

> never really took part in the stockhausen bashing but by 1975 i
realized that what they were doing
> was a dead end and started working in
> microtonality. that my acheivement. they had the advantage of alot
of PR and basically ruined it
> for those after them

How did they ruin what? What great time to for a polemic. In my
opinion, Berio's work with "resonators" and "spectral sonorities" is
directly relevant to tuning, not to mention he actually turned it into
finished pieces. /Ö

Joel,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Joel Rodrigues <jdrodrigues@P...> wrote:
> Luciano Berio is gone.

Another wonderful composer has moved on.

> First Xenakis, now Berio. We're losing a generation of amazing
> people. Sad that they aren't given the respect they so richly
> deserve.

I find that a curious statement, as at least the two you mention above seem to have gotten much in the way of kudos, and I - fortunately - have regular performances of Xenakis' music here in San Diego, courtesy his popularity at UCSD.

> All those Stockhausen bashers for example need a
> reality check of both their own achievements and those of these
> giants.

Seems tribute to a now-passed great one is a poor place to make statements such as the above. Why don't we just leave remembering Berio's passing in a positive light?

Regards,
Jon

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_43921.html#43930

> Joel,
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Joel Rodrigues <jdrodrigues@P...>
wrote:
> > Luciano Berio is gone.
>
> Another wonderful composer has moved on.
>
> > First Xenakis, now Berio. We're losing a generation of amazing
> > people. Sad that they aren't given the respect they so richly
> > deserve.
>
> I find that a curious statement, as at least the two you mention
above seem to have gotten much in the way of kudos, and I -
fortunately - have regular performances of Xenakis' music here in San
Diego, courtesy his popularity at UCSD.
>
> > All those Stockhausen bashers for example need a
> > reality check of both their own achievements and those of these
> > giants.
>
> Seems tribute to a now-passed great one is a poor place to make
statements such as the above. Why don't we just leave remembering
Berio's passing in a positive light?
>
> Regards,
> Jon

***Besides, I don't really see what Stockhausen and Berio have to do
with one another. I don't think they worked much together, or liked
each other. Stockhausen and *Boulez* are more in the same stew, but
Berio was outside that, for the most part, as I recall.

J. Pehrson

In a message dated 2003:05:28 09:26:05 AM, oljare@hotmail.com quotes & writes:

>> never really took part in the stockhausen bashing but by 1975 i
>realized that what they were doing
>> was a dead end and started working in
>> microtonality. that my acheivement. they had the advantage of alot
>of PR and basically ruined it
>> for those after them
>
>How did they ruin what? What great time to for a polemic. In my
>opinion, Berio's work with "resonators" and "spectral sonorities" is
>directly relevant to tuning, not to mention he actually turned it into
>finished pieces. /Ö

Likewise, _mutatis mutandi_ the various tuning/timbral innovations of
Messiaen, Penderecki, Ligeti, Takemitsu, Satoh, Crumb and Tan Dun.

---
Hanuman Zhang, the "Yves Klein Bleu Aardvark"

What strange risk of hearing can bring sound to music - a hearing whose
obligation awakens a sensibility so new that it is forever a unique, new-born,
anti-death surprise, created now and now and now. .. a hearing whose moment in
time is always daybreak. - Lucia Dlugoszewski

"The wonderousness of the human mind is too great to be transferred into
music only by 7 or 12 elements of tone steps in one octave." - shakuhachi master
Masayuki Koga

"There's a rabbinical tradition that the music in heaven will be microtonal
=)" - one annotative interpretation of Talmudic writings

Enemies? Rivals? Competitors? Fellow travellers?

Pot-of-fish-stew Orchestra?

Like Jon (sort of) said, remember the gone, lost, fallen, or taken as they would like to be remembered, probably. Fondly? Or with a great deal of irritation, depending on where you sat in their 'pitch continuum'?

A bright and interesting light has gone out, it seems to me. Damn!

Cheers in any case,

Pete

Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com> wrote:
***Besides, I don't really see what Stockhausen and Berio have to do
with one another. I don't think they worked much together, or liked
each other. Stockhausen and *Boulez* are more in the same stew, but
Berio was outside that, for the most part, as I recall.

J. Pehrson

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>

These people have very little to do with tuning except you occasional quartertone.
ornamental to 12 ET .
The fact is they stood in the way of tuning more than opening up new doors to it.
look how they pretended that Partch didn't exist. Even after two releases by columbia and you know they had heard the records.
Cage is the only who recognized the real innovation that was going on there as only a real innovator can. Well now that some of them share the same publisher as Partch they seem to cast an octarina tribute his way occasionally.
What did they ruin? Audiences and tell me what type of innovation is that! Their behavioristic psychological stand that people will get used to it ended with them all losing interest in new music altogether. They illustrated more the
bankruptcy of forcing a tuning system to do something it was not designed to do. this is their accomplishment and why their children are stillborn. Truly they created some great works, a great sunset.
Possibly being the artist they were they could do nothing but reenact the destruction in Europe that went before.
look at the time frame. lets say 40 years back to the 60's when they were at their prime. look at the list of composers in the 40 years before them. now look since even 1970, who is known on the same scale as them that was not already
working at this time?

>
> Likewise, _mutatis mutandi_ the various tuning/timbral innovations of
> Messiaen, Penderecki, Ligeti, Takemitsu, Satoh, Crumb and Tan Dun.
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

On Thursday, May 29, 2003, at 09:43 , tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

>> All those Stockhausen bashers for example need a
>> reality check of both their own achievements and those of these
>> giants.
>

> Seems tribute to a now-passed great one is a poor place to make > statements such as the above. Why don't we just leave > remembering Berio's passing in a positive light?

Hello Jon,

I considered not putting my comments (more observation than statement) in the same post, but knowing I meant no disrespect to Berio, as well that I'm a big enough boy to deal with both sides of the coin in one e-mail, I went ahead. A couple of extra lines of space seemed sufficient. There's more than one way to read what I wrote.

And maybe it's just me, but I cannot see his passing in a positive light. We need people like him around. I have no illusions about life or death, but death pisses me off as much as it saddens me.

> Regards,
> Jon

Best,
Joel

Kraig Grady a �crit :

> These people have very little to do with tuning except you occasional quartertone.
> ornamental to 12 ET .
> The fact is they stood in the way of tuning more than opening up new doors to it.
> look how they pretended that Partch didn't exist. Even after two releases by columbia and you know they had heard the records.
> Cage is the only who recognized the real innovation that was going on there as only a real innovator can. Well now that some of them share the same publisher as Partch they seem to cast an octarina tribute his way occasionally.
> What did they ruin? Audiences and tell me what type of innovation is that! Their behavioristic psychological stand that people will get used to it ended with them all losing interest in new music altogether. They illustrated more the
> bankruptcy of forcing a tuning system to do something it was not designed to do. this is their accomplishment and why their children are stillborn. Truly they created some great works, a great sunset.
> Possibly being the artist they were they could do nothing but reenact the destruction in Europe that went before.
> look at the time frame. lets say 40 years back to the 60's when they were at their prime. look at the list of composers in the 40 years before them. now look since even 1970, who is known on the same scale as them that was not already
> working at this time?

Kraig, I do agree at 100% with that : an incredible waste, which continues today in this area of european "contemporary music"
with a scaring inertia. It is on a come back now, getting in fact more and more established, leaving not much chances to experimental music and even less for microtonal alternatives, not to mention on new instruments. Trying to work
myself as a microtonal composer in France, I can tell. And it's not the more recent so-called "spectral" movement that shows an improvement, as it should have, again.
The only thing I'm not certain is what is the real "They" you're talking about. I see more responsability in the institutions, culture and cities
politics, establishment, than in the composers themselves. It�s true some of them became an institution themselves, but most escaped from that
- also it's hard to say how each of us would behave if we were given that much power. I don't really see examples in the microtonal movement, but we never know... At least you do not seem to have that much compartimentalization and
marginalization done by the institutions in the US. So keep on doing Microfests "in every major cities" like I red, and keep on opening the tuning doors, it's one of the best services you can do for the rest of humanity. And let us do one
all together in the "old europe" some day, right ?