Microtonal Keyboard works

Hello all,

With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if there are any composers who have written music for keyboard, either retuned piano or synthesizer? Do anyone have any scores online or in PDF format? Recordings? Does anyone even think of writing for traditional keyboard?

Thanks,

Mike

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael McGonagle
<fndsnd@r...> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if
there are
> any composers who have written music for keyboard, either
retuned piano
> or synthesizer?

yup . . . i've used various mappings of 22-equal, including one
where an acoustical octave spans two keyboard octaves.

> Recordings?

i believe my recordings have been relegated to the tuning punks
radio station, now that mp3.com eliminated all but the first 3
songs on each page . . .

>Does anyone even think of writing for traditional keyboard?

you mean like a piano? yes, for example ben johnston's sonata
for microtonal piano.

wallyesterpaulrus wrote:
> yup . . . i've used various mappings of 22-equal, including one > where an acoustical octave spans two keyboard octaves.

Did you intend this to be a work for a live performer? Or is it something that you recorded? Do you have any scores that you might want to share?

>>Recordings?
> > > i believe my recordings have been relegated to the tuning punks > radio station, now that mp3.com eliminated all but the first 3 > songs on each page . . .

I will look for them...

>>Does anyone even think of writing for traditional keyboard?
> > > you mean like a piano? yes, for example ben johnston's sonata > for microtonal piano.

I did find a listing for a recording by Robert Miller. Is this still an issued recording? Or is it out of print?

Thanks,

Mike

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael McGonagle
<fndsnd@r...> wrote:
>
>
> wallyesterpaulrus wrote:
> > yup . . . i've used various mappings of 22-equal, including
one
> > where an acoustical octave spans two keyboard octaves.
>
> Did you intend this to be a work for a live performer? Or is it
> something that you recorded?

the latter . . .

> Do you have any scores that you might want
> to share?

i suppose i could whip one up . . . do you have the wherewithal to
implement such a mapping?

> > you mean like a piano? yes, for example ben johnston's
sonata
> > for microtonal piano.
>
> I did find a listing for a recording by Robert Miller. Is this still an
> issued recording? Or is it out of print?

it's on the cd "sound forms for piano", which also has the ives
quarter-tone fantasies for two pianos a quartertone apart . . .
breathtaking . . .

> With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if there

> are any composers who have written music for keyboard, either

> retuned piano or synthesizer?

Ok ok ok. If you feel you need to be constrained to a keyboard, you'll
find more than you thought. First off, I really enjoy a short sonata
movement by list member Chris Bailey in that was retuned to 7 limit
just intonation by a former list member. Find the file at:

http://music.columbia.edu/~chris/sounds/sonata.7lim.mp3

for an idea of what can be done. Also, while not a lot of his stuff
really does it for me, Jeff Harrington has quite a bit of keyboard
work for differing intonations. I mention him because he seems to come
from a keyboard orientation (rather than an orchestral composer using
a keyboard to get the work done; if I'm way off base on JH, someone
can let me know). He seems to be very adept at self promotion, so
either do a Google search or ask around; I'm pretty sure he has a
bunch of stuff on mp3.com and other sound areas, and may have his own
web site. Again, not always my cup of tea, but it isn't just dicking
around on a keyboard either.

Lastly and most importantly, how about music from one of the giants of
the last hundred years who just left us? Lou Harrison? (I'm reposting
the next bit, which I posted just a week ago - read the list
carefully!)

-----------------

I came across a review of a recent recording of keyboard works of Lou

Harrison on andante.com - you can read the review (and there is a nice

interview with Lou in the latest main pages) here:

http://www.andante.com/article/article.cfm?id=19715

What struck me, vis a vis recent threads, was the last paragraph:

"The most fascinating work here is 1957's Music for Corneille's Cinna,
the recording of which occasioned a controversy in microtonal music
circles. Burman-Hall first recorded it on a proper tack piano — but in
the wrong tuning; after some discussion among pianist, composer,
record company and others, she re-recorded it in Harrison's specified
seven-limit just intonation. The tuning matters because this landmark
of microtonal experimentation represents one of Harrison's most
successful responses to Partch's pioneering theories. (Burman-Hall and
Bill Slye's informative CD liner notes provide a fuller explanation of
these tuning issues.) Despite the temperamental experimentation, and a
freewheeling structure that eschews barlines, the music (written for a
never-realized puppet production of the classic French play) is a
deeply affecting evocation of both the ancient Rome of the script and
the 17th-century Paris of the playwright. As with so much of this
composer's work, Cinna manages to be at once radically

progressive and strikingly beautiful. It's spellbinding music like
this that makes Lou Harrison one of the great composers of the 20th
century."

---------

Start with Harrison and work backward - you can't go wrong.

Cheers,

Jon

>Ok ok ok. If you feel you need to be constrained to a keyboard, you'll
>find more than you thought. First off, I really enjoy a short sonata
>movement by list member Chris Bailey in that was retuned to 7 limit
>just intonation by a former list member. Find the file at:
>
>http://music.columbia.edu/~chris/sounds/sonata.7lim.mp3

Whoa. That's a different version that what I have here. A few
seconds longer and the stereo balance is different.

Nice piece, and the adaptive tuning came off really well.

-Carl

wallyesterpaulrus wrote:
>>Do you have any scores that you might want >>to share?
> > > i suppose i could whip one up . . . do you have the wherewithal to > implement such a mapping?

Yes, I do. I have been working at getting some "microtonal" instruments implemented in SAOL that can be played via MIDI. They do not use pitchbends to implement the pitches. I have exported the tables from Scala, so that I can use them in SAOL. I am currently trying to get some FM instruments implemented that use these tables. I also have some rough sampled piano sounds that I have started to tune up, but I don't want to go too far with that, as I will just have to "retune" the finished samples that I end up using.

I also am using an 88-key controller, so this would give about a 3.5 octave range of available pitches at any one time.

Mike

>With all this talk of performances, I find
>myself wondering if there are
>any composers who have written music for
>keyboard, either retuned piano
>or synthesizer? Do anyone have any scores
>online or in PDF format?
>Recordings? Does anyone even think of writing
>for traditional keyboard?

Hi Mike,

I'm a lousy pianist, but a pianist nonetheless. All of my JI music is for keyboard(s), usually for live performance, including my two JI operas Cinderella's Bad Magic and The Watermelon Cargo, which each use three synthesizers in addition to microtonal flute and fretless bass. All the stuff on my CD Custer's Ghost (Monroe Street) is for retuned keyboard synthesizers. I have another piece, unrecorded, for three synthesizers, titled Arcana XVI. I'm trying to prepare a stack of scores for Custer and Sitting Bull and could send you one - possibly not till summer, given my hellish schedule.

[Sorry not to gave gotten back to you recently about your off-list publishing query. Right now I'm doing fine with publishers, but may want other options open in the future. Thanks for the offer.]

Yours,

Kyle

speaking of harrison, you can't forget the *other* harrison,
michael harrison, whose _from ancient worlds_ (and maybe
another cd) uses a specially modified piano to produce 24-tone
7-limit just intonation . . . which of course brings to mind lamonte
young's _the well-tuned piano_, a 5-cd set of minimalism on a
piano with an extra bass octave tuned to a 7-limit just system . . .

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@A...>"
<JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> > With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if
there
>
>
> > are any composers who have written music for keyboard,
either
>
>
> > retuned piano or synthesizer?
>
>
>
>
> Ok ok ok. If you feel you need to be constrained to a keyboard,
you'll
> find more than you thought. First off, I really enjoy a short
sonata
> movement by list member Chris Bailey in that was retuned to 7
limit
> just intonation by a former list member. Find the file at:
>
>
>
>
> http://music.columbia.edu/~chris/sounds/sonata.7lim.mp3
>
>
>
>
> for an idea of what can be done. Also, while not a lot of his stuff
> really does it for me, Jeff Harrington has quite a bit of keyboard
> work for differing intonations. I mention him because he
seems to come
> from a keyboard orientation (rather than an orchestral
composer using
> a keyboard to get the work done; if I'm way off base on JH,
someone
> can let me know). He seems to be very adept at self promotion,
so
> either do a Google search or ask around; I'm pretty sure he
has a
> bunch of stuff on mp3.com and other sound areas, and may
have his own
> web site. Again, not always my cup of tea, but it isn't just
dicking
> around on a keyboard either.
>
>
>
>
> Lastly and most importantly, how about music from one of the
giants of
> the last hundred years who just left us? Lou Harrison? (I'm
reposting
> the next bit, which I posted just a week ago - read the list
> carefully!)
>
>
>
>
> -----------------
>
>
> I came across a review of a recent recording of keyboard works
of Lou
>
>
> Harrison on andante.com - you can read the review (and there
is a nice
>
>
> interview with Lou in the latest main pages) here:
>
>
>
>
> http://www.andante.com/article/article.cfm?id=19715
>
>
>
>
> What struck me, vis a vis recent threads, was the last
paragraph:
>
>
>
>
> "The most fascinating work here is 1957's Music for Corneille's
Cinna,
> the recording of which occasioned a controversy in microtonal
music
> circles. Burman-Hall first recorded it on a proper tack piano —
but in
> the wrong tuning; after some discussion among pianist,
composer,
> record company and others, she re-recorded it in Harrison's
specified
> seven-limit just intonation. The tuning matters because this
landmark
> of microtonal experimentation represents one of Harrison's
most
> successful responses to Partch's pioneering theories.
(Burman-Hall and
> Bill Slye's informative CD liner notes provide a fuller
explanation of
> these tuning issues.) Despite the temperamental
experimentation, and a
> freewheeling structure that eschews barlines, the music
(written for a
> never-realized puppet production of the classic French play) is
a
> deeply affecting evocation of both the ancient Rome of the
script and
> the 17th-century Paris of the playwright. As with so much of this
> composer's work, Cinna manages to be at once radically
>
>
> progressive and strikingly beautiful. It's spellbinding music like
> this that makes Lou Harrison one of the great composers of
the 20th
> century."
>
>
> ---------
>
>
>
>
> Start with Harrison and work backward - you can't go wrong.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Jon

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael McGonagle
<fndsnd@r...> wrote:
>
>
> wallyesterpaulrus wrote:
> >>Do you have any scores that you might want
> >>to share?
> >
> >
> > i suppose i could whip one up . . . do you have the
wherewithal to
> > implement such a mapping?
>
> Yes, I do. I have been working at getting some "microtonal"
instruments
> implemented in SAOL that can be played via MIDI. They do not
use
> pitchbends to implement the pitches. I have exported the
tables from
> Scala, so that I can use them in SAOL. I am currently trying to
get some
> FM instruments implemented that use these tables. I also
have some rough
> sampled piano sounds that I have started to tune up, but I don't
want to
> go too far with that, as I will just have to "retune" the finished
> samples that I end up using.
>
> I also am using an 88-key controller, so this would give about a
3.5
> octave range of available pitches at any one time.
>
> Mike

great . . . what i hope i'll be able to do is to plug my keyboard into
my roommate's midi setup (he has finale), play the piece, and
have it show up as a "tablature" keyboard score -- in other words,
the notes will show up *as played*, rather that *as sounding*. is
this going to work? is this what you want?

----- Original Message -----
From: <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>

>speaking of harrison, you can't forget the *other* harrison,
>michael harrison, whose _from ancient worlds_ (and maybe
>another cd) uses a specially modified piano to produce 24-tone
>7-limit just intonation

A new CD came out last year, Revelation.

> . . . which of course brings to mind lamonte
>young's _the well-tuned piano_, a 5-cd set of minimalism on a
>piano with an extra bass octave tuned to a 7-limit just system . . .

This is out on DVD as a 6 hour + concert.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

I don't anybody mentioned Terry Riley. Shri Camel, The Harp of New Albion
and others.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Michael McGonagle
> <fndsnd@r...> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if
> there are
> > any composers who have written music for keyboard, either
> retuned piano
> > or synthesizer?

Terry Riley - the 'Harps of New Albion' in Just Intonation - available from Amazon.

Regards
a.m.

in case you're getting the impression that all examples are in
7-limit just intonation, easley blackwood's cd has etudes in every
equal temperament from 13 to 24 that were also performed on
keyboard . . . with many overdubs. the scores are not notated "as
played", but rather "as sounded", with sometimes bizarre
accidentals employed (a "key" for the tuning system is, thankfully,
provided at the beginning of each piece).

then of course there's wendy carlos's cd _beauty in the beast_ --
all microtonal, all keyboards (overdubbed -- possibly some
moog-style sequencing employed on this early recording) . . .
don't miss it!

Michael Harrison's "Revelation" (MHM101) in just intonation for piano, as
well as other CDs put out by Michael should be considered for their beauty.

Hear Joshua Pierce perform the work in its entirety in April if you can come
to NYC.

best, Johnny Reinhard

>>With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if
>>there are any composers who have written music for keyboard,
>>either retuned piano or synthesizer?
>
>speaking of harrison, you can't forget the *other* harrison,
>michael harrison, whose _from ancient worlds_ (and maybe
>another cd) uses a specially modified piano to produce 24-tone
>7-limit just intonation . . . which of course brings to mind lamonte
>young's _the well-tuned piano_, a 5-cd set of minimalism on a
>piano with an extra bass octave tuned to a 7-limit just system . . .

I think whoever wrote that was asking for written music, not
recordings. Big difference.

-Carl

>great . . . what i hope i'll be able to do is to plug my keyboard into
>my roommate's midi setup (he has finale), play the piece, and
>have it show up as a "tablature" keyboard score -- in other words,
>the notes will show up *as played*, rather that *as sounding*. is
>this going to work? is this what you want?

You'll find that very few performers want anything like that. You'll
see what I mean when you try it.

-Carl

>>speaking of harrison, you can't forget the *other* harrison,
>>michael harrison, whose _from ancient worlds_ (and maybe
>>another cd) uses a specially modified piano to produce 24-tone
>>7-limit just intonation
>
>A new CD came out last year, Revelation.

Revelation uses a 12-tone tuning, and does not employ the
specially modified piano, though at least one cut on his
first album _In Flight_ does.

-Carl

>in case you're getting the impression that all examples are in
>7-limit just intonation, easley blackwood's cd has etudes in every
>equal temperament from 13 to 24 that were also performed on
>keyboard . . . with many overdubs. the scores are not notated "as
>played", but rather "as sounded", with sometimes bizarre
>accidentals employed (a "key" for the tuning system is, thankfully,
>provided at the beginning of each piece).
>
>then of course there's wendy carlos's cd _beauty in the beast_ --
>all microtonal, all keyboards (overdubbed -- possibly some
>moog-style sequencing employed on this early recording) . . .
>don't miss it!

This is not keyboard music!

-Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@lumma.org>

> I think whoever wrote that was asking for written music, not
> recordings. Big difference.

and:

>Revelation uses a 12-tone tuning, and does not employ the
>specially modified piano, though at least one cut on his
>first album _In Flight_ does.

and even on the subject of Beauty in the Beast:

>This is not keyboard music!

Michael McGonagle wrote:

>With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if there are
>any composers who have written music for keyboard, either retuned piano
>or synthesizer? Do anyone have any scores online or in PDF format?
>Recordings? Does anyone even think of writing for traditional keyboard?

Yes, he did ask about recordings. Yes, he also asked about traditional
keyboards
and synthesizers.

Lighten up Carl.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >great . . . what i hope i'll be able to do is to plug my keyboard
into
> >my roommate's midi setup (he has finale), play the piece, and
> >have it show up as a "tablature" keyboard score -- in other words,
> >the notes will show up *as played*, rather that *as sounding*. is
> >this going to work? is this what you want?
>
> You'll find that very few performers want anything like that.
You'll
> see what I mean when you try it.
>
> -Carl

why don't we let M.M. speak for himself. and i have no idea what you
mean.

>and even on the subject of Beauty in the Beast:
>
>>This is not keyboard music!

Even? _Beast_ and _Etudes_ do contain some
sections that could be viewed as keyboard
music, but this is not a result of the fact
that the notes were sequenced from a keyboard
controller!

> Michael McGonagle wrote:
>
>>With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering
>>if there are any composers who have written music for keyboard,
>>either retuned piano or synthesizer? Do anyone have any scores
>>online or in PDF format? Recordings? Does anyone even think of
>>writing for traditional keyboard?
>
>Yes, he did ask about recordings. Yes, he also asked about
>traditional keyboards and synthesizers.

I took that to mean recordings of music *scored for retuned
Halberstadt*.

If we're all going to get on and mention microtonal recordings
involving keyboards, one at a time, we could be a while.

>Lighten up Carl.

I'm light. Light and fluffy.

-C.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >and even on the subject of Beauty in the Beast:
> >
> >>This is not keyboard music!
>
> Even? _Beast_ and _Etudes_ do contain some
> sections that could be viewed as keyboard
> music, but this is not a result of the fact
> that the notes were sequenced from a keyboard
> controller!

really, carl. easley blackwood played every single note of the etudes
on a keyboard in real time, although he did overdub. if wendy did
some sequencing, it was purely using technology that, at the time,
was known as "keyboards". maybe a tiny percentage of the sounds were
not produced by a "keyboard". can it be disputed that these are fine
albums to recommend to someone seeking recordings of non-12-equal
music for synthesizer?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@lumma.org>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Microtonal Keyboard works

> >and even on the subject of Beauty in the Beast:
> >
> >>This is not keyboard music!
>
> Even? _Beast_ and _Etudes_ do contain some
> sections that could be viewed as keyboard
> music, but this is not a result of the fact
> that the notes were sequenced from a keyboard
> controller!

But it is a synthesizer. Above: You're arguing with yourself.

> > Michael McGonagle wrote:
> >
> >>With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering
> >>if there are any composers who have written music for keyboard,
> >>either retuned piano or synthesizer? Do anyone have any scores
> >>online or in PDF format? Recordings? Does anyone even think of
> >>writing for traditional keyboard?
> >
> >Yes, he did ask about recordings. Yes, he also asked about
> >traditional keyboards and synthesizers.
>
> I took that to mean recordings of music *scored for retuned
> Halberstadt*.

He doesn't write that. You're projecting and then arguing with
people about it.

> If we're all going to get on and mention microtonal recordings
> involving keyboards, one at a time, we could be a while.
>
> >Lighten up Carl.
>
> I'm light. Light and fluffy.

Fooled me.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

>>>>and even on the subject of Beauty in the Beast:
>>>
>>>This is not keyboard music!
>>
>>Even? _Beast_ and _Etudes_ do contain some
>>sections that could be viewed as keyboard
>>music, but this is not a result of the fact
>>that the notes were sequenced from a keyboard
>>controller!
>
>really, carl.

Yes, really.

>can it be disputed that these are fine albums
>to recommend to someone seeking recordings of
>non-12-equal music for synthesizer?

No!

-C.

>>>and even on the subject of Beauty in the Beast:
>>>
>>>>This is not keyboard music!
>>
>>Even? _Beast_ and _Etudes_ do contain some
>>sections that could be viewed as keyboard
>>music, but this is not a result of the fact
>>that the notes were sequenced from a keyboard
>>controller!
>
>But it is a synthesizer.

Let's read what Michael wrote, again...

"...music for keyboard, either retuned piano or synthesizer?"

Now, let's draw a Venn diagram...

.--------------------------------.
|.Music for Keyboard.............|
|................................|
|..----------------...-----------|---------.
|.|.Music.for......|.|.Music.for.|retuned..|
|.|.retuned.piano..|.|.synthesiz.|er.......|
|..----------------...-----------|---------.
|................................|
.--------------------------------.

Now, where are you confused? See that wart out
there? That's where Blackwood and Carlos' music
falls. Riley, Young, Harrison, fall inside the
big block, but do not produce scores, which it
isn't clear if Michael requires (I assumed he
did).

-Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@lumma.org>

> Riley, Young, Harrison, fall inside the
> big block, but do not produce scores, which it
> isn't clear if Michael requires (I assumed he
> did).

What makes you think they don't have scores?

(What happened to the light and fluffy Carl?)

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >>>and even on the subject of Beauty in the Beast:
> >>>
> >>>>This is not keyboard music!
> >>
> >>Even? _Beast_ and _Etudes_ do contain some
> >>sections that could be viewed as keyboard
> >>music, but this is not a result of the fact
> >>that the notes were sequenced from a keyboard
> >>controller!
> >
> >But it is a synthesizer.
>
> Let's read what Michael wrote, again...
>
> "...music for keyboard, either retuned piano or synthesizer?"
>
> Now, let's draw a Venn diagram...
>
> .--------------------------------.
> |.Music for Keyboard.............|
> |................................|
> |..----------------...-----------|---------.
> |.|.Music.for......|.|.Music.for.|retuned..|
> |.|.retuned.piano..|.|.synthesiz.|er.......|
> |..----------------...-----------|---------.
> |................................|
> .--------------------------------.
>
> Now, where are you confused? See that wart out
> there? That's where Blackwood and Carlos' music
> falls. Riley, Young, Harrison, fall inside the
> big block, but do not produce scores, which it
> isn't clear if Michael requires (I assumed he
> did).
>
> -Carl

carl, you've seriously lost it. are you suggesting that music for non-
retuned synthesizer falls *inside* the scope of michael's question,
while that for retuned synthesizer falls *outside* it?

get a grip.

>> Riley, Young, Harrison, fall inside the
>> big block, but do not produce scores, which it
>> isn't clear if Michael requires (I assumed he
>> did).
>
>What makes you think they don't have scores?

Sorry, didn't mean to include Young there. Also,
they might have scores, but they don't publish
them, as far as I know. Is that wrong?

I also strongly suspect Harrison's music is
improvised, though obviously with structure in
mind, and in the case of some of his tunes,
probably structure down to the last note. But
not scored in the traditional sense.

By the way, much of my most favorite music is
not scored in the traditional sense, so please
don't take this as an attack on these artists.
Note, for example, that _From Ancient Worlds_
is one of my top-10 microtonal recordings.
http://lumma.org/

>(What happened to the light and fluffy Carl?)

Still here, but with snide attacks like this it's
a wonder.

-Carl

>> .--------------------------------.
>> |.Music for Keyboard.............|
>> |................................|
>> |..----------------...-----------|---------.
>> |.|.Music.for......|.|.Music.for.|retuned..|
>> |.|.retuned.piano..|.|.synthesiz.|er.......|
>> |..----------------...-----------|---------.
>> |................................|
>> .--------------------------------.
>>
>> Now, where are you confused? See that wart out
>> there? That's where Blackwood and Carlos' music
>> falls. Riley, Young, Harrison, fall inside the
>> big block, but do not produce scores, which it
>> isn't clear if Michael requires (I assumed he
>> did).
>>
>> -Carl
>
>carl, you've seriously lost it. are you suggesting
>that music for non-retuned synthesizer falls *inside*
>the scope of michael's question, while that for retuned
>synthesizer falls *outside* it?

Oh my God. That the word "retuned" falls entirely
in the wart was purely a consequence of formatting.

>get a grip.

Dude, I'm not the one confusing sequenced music with
keyboard music.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> Dude, I'm not the one confusing sequenced music with
> keyboard music.
>
> -Carl

yes you are. blackwood did no sequencing. carlos may have, but still
did *plenty* of keyboarding.

>yes you are. blackwood did no sequencing.

Blackwood's recording is 100% sequenced. According
to him (personal communication).

>carlos may have, but still did *plenty* of keyboarding.

Carlos' music is typically 100% sequenced, according to
her liner notes, even when the music she's performing is
written for real-time keyboard!

-Carl

>

Having written a few works for retuned reed organs in a variety of tunings i hopefully will be
able to get the scores up someday.a recording of the longest is on a CD called
From the interiors of Anaphoria
It unfortunately is out of print but you might be able to find on E-bay from time to time.
A totally acoustic recording , reviews have mistakenly attributed the beating/phasing effects to
the use of electronic manipulations. this is not the case

But
I think the Harp of New Albion by Terry Riley and the
the Well Tuned Piano by La monte Young are important keyboard works.

As far as Lou Harrison i wish to draw some attention to what for me is one of my favorite pieces
by him which i have attempted to get performed on a number of occasions. I ws already planning to
plug this piece even before this post as it deserves more attention.

The Concerto for Piano and Javanese Gamelan

>
> From: "Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>" <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>
> Subject: Re: Microtonal Keyboard works
>
> > With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if there
>
> > are any composers who have written music for keyboard, either
>
> > retuned piano or synthesizer?
>
> Ok ok ok. If you feel you need to be constrained to a keyboard, you'll
> find more than you thought. First off, I really enjoy a short sonata
> movement by list member Chris Bailey in that was retuned to 7 limit
> just intonation by a former list member. Find the file at:
>
> http://music.columbia.edu/~chris/sounds/sonata.7lim.mp3
>
> for an idea of what can be done. Also, while not a lot of his stuff
> really does it for me, Jeff Harrington has quite a bit of keyboard
> work for differing intonations. I mention him because he seems to come
> from a keyboard orientation (rather than an orchestral composer using
> a keyboard to get the work done; if I'm way off base on JH, someone
> can let me know). He seems to be very adept at self promotion, so
> either do a Google search or ask around; I'm pretty sure he has a
> bunch of stuff on mp3.com and other sound areas, and may have his own
> web site. Again, not always my cup of tea, but it isn't just dicking
> around on a keyboard either.
>
> Lastly and most importantly, how about music from one of the giants of
> the last hundred years who just left us? Lou Harrison? (I'm reposting
> the next bit, which I posted just a week ago - read the list
> carefully!)
>
> -----------------
>
> I came across a review of a recent recording of keyboard works of Lou
>
> Harrison on andante.com - you can read the review (and there is a nice
>
> interview with Lou in the latest main pages) here:
>
> http://www.andante.com/article/article.cfm?id=19715
>
> What struck me, vis a vis recent threads, was the last paragraph:
>
> "The most fascinating work here is 1957's Music for Corneille's Cinna,
> the recording of which occasioned a controversy in microtonal music
> circles. Burman-Hall first recorded it on a proper tack piano � but in
> the wrong tuning; after some discussion among pianist, composer,
> record company and others, she re-recorded it in Harrison's specified
> seven-limit just intonation. The tuning matters because this landmark
> of microtonal experimentation represents one of Harrison's most
> successful responses to Partch's pioneering theories. (Burman-Hall and
> Bill Slye's informative CD liner notes provide a fuller explanation of
> these tuning issues.) Despite the temperamental experimentation, and a
> freewheeling structure that eschews barlines, the music (written for a
> never-realized puppet production of the classic French play) is a
> deeply affecting evocation of both the ancient Rome of the script and
> the 17th-century Paris of the playwright. As with so much of this
> composer's work, Cinna manages to be at once radically
>
> progressive and strikingly beautiful. It's spellbinding music like
> this that makes Lou Harrison one of the great composers of the 20th
> century."
>
> ---------
>
> Start with Harrison and work backward - you can't go wrong.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jon
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@lumma.org>

> >> Riley, Young, Harrison, fall inside the
> >> big block, but do not produce scores, which it
> >> isn't clear if Michael requires (I assumed he
> >> did).
> >
> >What makes you think they don't have scores?
>
> Sorry, didn't mean to include Young there. Also,
> they might have scores, but they don't publish
> them, as far as I know. Is that wrong?

I think to check out La Monte's scores and transcriptions,
one would have to take lessons or at least show great interest in his
music.

> I also strongly suspect Harrison's music is
> improvised, though obviously with structure in
> mind, and in the case of some of his tunes,
> probably structure down to the last note. But
> not scored in the traditional sense.

I'd be surprised if there weren't any scores,
but what would be wrong with a score that
called for rule based improvisation?

> By the way, much of my most favorite music is
> not scored in the traditional sense, so please
> don't take this as an attack on these artists.
> Note, for example, that _From Ancient Worlds_
> is one of my top-10 microtonal recordings.
> http://lumma.org/
>
> >(What happened to the light and fluffy Carl?)
>
> Still here, but with snide attacks like this it's
> a wonder.

That's right Carl....we're all out to get you today.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

>> Riley, Young, Harrison, fall inside the
>> big block, but do not produce scores, which it
>> isn't clear if Michael requires (I assumed he
>> did).
>
>What makes you think they don't have scores?

>Sorry, didn't mean to include Young there.

There is a score to The Well-Tuned Piano. It's an improvisatory score, full of themes, motives, cadences, and chordal areas, but it is a score one could play the work from. Terry has some similar notations to The Harp of New Albion, too, but though he agreed to he's never gotten around to sending them to me.

Get a grip, Carl!

Yours,

Kyle

P.S. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Jumping on Carl looked like so much fun.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> >yes you are. blackwood did no sequencing.
>
> Blackwood's recording is 100% sequenced. According
> to him (personal communication).

maybe he used sequencing to be able to cover up mistakes, but he
definitely played each part in real time on the keyboard to begin
with -- he makes a big deal about this, about getting the expression
right, in some interviews i've read (pnm 1991 for example).

so much _beauty in the beast_ sounds like fingers on a keyboard, that
i'd be utterly shocked if the music wasn't originally produced this
way.

there's certainly no semblance of mechanical rhythms anywhere to be
found on either disc.

>I'd be surprised if there weren't any scores,
>but what would be wrong with a score that
>called for rule based improvisation?

Nothing. But in the conventional language of
music, "keyboard music" means music written
on a grand staff, etc. etc.

-Carl

>Get a grip, Carl!

Jeez, have I come across to everyone as loosing it?
What did I say?

-Carl

PS. I've listen to a bunch of Ciconia since your post,
and found myself agreeing with you re: Dufay, etc.

>Get a grip, Carl!

> Jeez, have I come across to everyone as
>losing it?
>What did I say?

>-Carl

>PS. I've listen to a bunch of Ciconia since
>your post,
>and found myself agreeing with you re: Dufay,
>etc.

I was just kidding you. I'm one of those people who, if a crowd on the sidewalk is craning their necks at something, have to stop and look too.

Just for the record, The Well-Tuned Piano score is written on conventional staves. No one said it wasn't, but someone could have.

Ciconia's great. I've been ordering the meantone Buxtehude discs recommended here lately myself.

Kyle

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@lumma.org>

> >I'd be surprised if there weren't any scores,
> >but what would be wrong with a score that
> >called for rule based improvisation?
>
> Nothing. But in the conventional language of
> music, "keyboard music" means music written
> on a grand staff, etc. etc.

There's a lot of music that has some kind of score
that doesn't fit in that narrow definition.

Are you now suggesting that La Monte's score to the WTP
(for example) isn't notated on a grand staff so it isn't a score?
I would be surprised if it wasn't!

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

>Are you now suggesting that La Monte's score
>to the WTP
>(for example) isn't notated on a grand staff
>so it isn't a score?
>I would be surprised if it wasn't!

You see what I mean?

Kyle

>maybe he used sequencing to be able to cover up mistakes, but he
>definitely played each part in real time on the keyboard to begin
>with -- he makes a big deal about this, about getting the expression
>right, in some interviews i've read (pnm 1991 for example).

I can believe the parts were played in realtime, without much
punching in and out. But he played the parts in individually (it
was a monophonic synth, after all!), to a click track, and often
he had to record sections at different points in the music, with
nothing but clicks in between, because once he got a certain timbre,
he couldn't repatch it later and count on it sounding exactly the
same.

>so much _beauty in the beast_ sounds like fingers on a keyboard, that
>i'd be utterly shocked if the music wasn't originally produced this
>way.

I'm sure it was! To thousands of musicians everywhere, though,
"keyboard music" means, 'can be played on a keyboard in realtime,
from start to finish, from a score, being standard notation on
a single grand staff'. Yes?

My copy of the Microtonal Etudes score is in Montana. Maybe somebody
could check how many of the etudes are scored entirely on a grand
staff? I'm guessing zero.

-Carl

>Are you now suggesting that La Monte's score to the WTP
>(for example) isn't notated on a grand staff so it isn't a score?
>I would be surprised if it wasn't!

Noooo! I was just suggesting that it not be considered
"keyboard music", in the sense that it belongs to a 500-year
tradition of well, keyboard music.

Of course it's still a score! :)

-Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@lumma.org>

> >Are you now suggesting that La Monte's score to the WTP
> >(for example) isn't notated on a grand staff so it isn't a score?
> >I would be surprised if it wasn't!
>
> Noooo! I was just suggesting that it not be considered
> "keyboard music", in the sense that it belongs to a 500-year
> tradition of well, keyboard music.
>
> Of course it's still a score! :)

Now you're saying it's not keyboard music?

Why is the WTP not part of "your" keyboard tradition? The WTP seems to
be totally part of that tradition, in fact an obvious and innovative
continuation.

La Monte isn't exactly playing washtub bass and just stompin' his foot.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

Carl,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> To thousands of musicians everywhere, though,

> "keyboard music" means, 'can be played on a keyboard in realtime,

> from start to finish, from a score, being standard notation on

> a single grand staff'. Yes?

You are taking the most literal and narrow definition of "keyboard
music" - even if a common assumption - and applying it to a question
that seemed far more questing. He is looking for microtonal keyboard
music, which already places it outside what "thousands of musicians
everywhere" are used to. How about just showing the panorama of
approaches, pieces, and recordings, and let Michael M. sort it out on
his own?

These kind of fights, over semantic nuances requiring an electron
microscope for careful examination, are pretty humorous until they get
tedious.

How about everyone just stays cool until M.M. reports back and needs
any more clarification?

Cheers,

Jon

> To thousands of musicians everywhere,
>though,
> "keyboard music" means, 'can be played on a
>keyboard in realtime,
> from start to finish, from a score, being
>standard notation on
> a single grand staff'. Yes?

Actually, The Well-Tuned Piano is an interesting test case in this respect. In its current form, the "score," or score, or """score,""" as you wish, consists of La Monte's thematic skeletons and harmonic areas, and also of abundant transcriptions from his recordings made by La Monte, Michael Harrison, and myself. There's no theoretical reason that anyone couldn't make his or her own transcriptions of themes from one recording or another, send them to La Monte, and, if he approved them, have them become part of the official score. Almost the entire WTP could be transcribed, except for the "clouds," which are (as you all know) chords strummed in a tremolo manner; these could be roughly notated in some free fashion. I transcribed about 20 minutes of the 1981 recording (out of five hours, 1/15th of the entire work), and it didn't take that long; a matter of days, not months or weeks. There are a few passages in which there are four-note chords involving internal pitches only 27 cents apart, and for those passages, La Monte's thematic notations may be essential (unless you can hear a 27-cent difference in the middle of a closely-spaced microtonal chord; I couldn't - I guess Johnny Reinhard could). But one could make a fully notated score of the WTP and perform from it, essentially duplicating one of La Monte's recordings; but due to the nature of the work, it would be a score which would not have to be followed closely, since improvisation is allowed and even expected. By comparing recordings (the commercially [un]available CD and DVD, for instance), one could assemble one's own version. In that case it is a little like a Baroque keyboard work, in which the melodic/harmonic skeleton is given but ornaments are left to the player and assumed desirable. If La Monte were a """""normal""""" composer and would distribute his damn music, we'd probably already have such performances by now. As it is, I last heard the WTP live in 1987, and am not sure I expect to again in my lifetime. But give me a summer off from other work and I could come up with a total score.

I suspect much the same could be said for The Harp of New Albion.

Yours,

Kyle

David,

Thanks for the suggestions, but Carl was correct in assuming that I was looking for "Piano" works, I should have stated that I am looking for piece to learn that are performable by a live musician. I am not claiming to be a keyboard wiz, but I am looking for more "intimate" ways of learning these new tuning systems. I have just set up my studio, and am able to work with these tunings on something more than a short spinet piano.

Mike

David Beardsley wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@lumma.org>
>
> >
>>I think whoever wrote that was asking for written music, not
>>recordings. Big difference.
>> >>
>
>and:
>
> >
>>Revelation uses a 12-tone tuning, and does not employ the
>>specially modified piano, though at least one cut on his
>>first album _In Flight_ does.
>> >>
>
>and even on the subject of Beauty in the Beast:
>
> >
>>This is not keyboard music!
>> >>
>
> Michael McGonagle wrote:
>
> >
>>With all this talk of performances, I find myself wondering if there are
>>any composers who have written music for keyboard, either retuned piano
>>or synthesizer? Do anyone have any scores online or in PDF format?
>>Recordings? Does anyone even think of writing for traditional keyboard?
>> >>
>
>Yes, he did ask about recordings. Yes, he also asked about traditional
>keyboards
>and synthesizers.
>
>Lighten up Carl.
>
>
>* David Beardsley
>* microtonal guitar
>* http://biink.com/db
>
>
>
>
>You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
>email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> >
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >
>
>
>
> >

Carl Lumma wrote:

>>Get a grip, Carl!
>> >>
>
>Jeez, have I come across to everyone as loosing it?
>What did I say?
>

Had to be the Venn Diagram...

Mike

>
>-Carl
>
>PS. I've listen to a bunch of Ciconia since your post,
>and found myself agreeing with you re: Dufay, etc.
>
>
>You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
>email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> >
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >
>
>
>
> >

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "wallyesterpaulrus

/tuning/topicId_42257.html#42315

<wallyesterpaulrus@y...>" <wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
>
> > >yes you are. blackwood did no sequencing.
> >
> > Blackwood's recording is 100% sequenced. According
> > to him (personal communication).
>
> maybe he used sequencing to be able to cover up mistakes, but he
> definitely played each part in real time on the keyboard to begin
> with -- he makes a big deal about this, about getting the
expression
> right, in some interviews i've read (pnm 1991 for example).
>
> so much _beauty in the beast_ sounds like fingers on a keyboard,
that
> i'd be utterly shocked if the music wasn't originally produced this
> way.
>
> there's certainly no semblance of mechanical rhythms anywhere to be
> found on either disc.

***Well, despite some of the acerbics, this is actually a pretty
interesting discussion. When is keyboarding not keyboarding?? Is a
piece that is played *out of "real time"* on a keyboard by
overdubbing considered "keyboard music" or is it only music that can
be performed in *real time...*

This never was a question historically, obviously....

J. Pehrson

>> Noooo! I was just suggesting that it not be considered
>> "keyboard music", in the sense that it belongs to a 500-year
>> tradition of well, keyboard music.
>>
>> Of course it's still a score! :)
>
>Now you're saying it's not keyboard music?
>
>Why is the WTP not part of "your" keyboard tradition? The WTP seems to
>be totally part of that tradition, in fact an obvious and innovative
>continuation.

I'm about to start stomping my foot. I think we've miscommunicated
completely. I wasn't trying to say anything about the WTP at all!!

-Carl

>***Well, despite some of the acerbics, this is actually a pretty
>interesting discussion. When is keyboarding not keyboarding?? Is a
>piece that is played *out of "real time"* on a keyboard by
>overdubbing considered "keyboard music" or is it only music that can
>be performed in *real time...*

Over on specmus, there's a discussion about constraints. To borrow
from that thread, to me, the keyboard represents a unique constraint
system that leads to unique music. The differences between organ
and piano are huge, but not so huge as the differences between real
and non-real time. In the past, I've even speculated on this list
(tuning) about the differences between *upright* and *grand* pianos,
and the differences in the ideal music for each.

Anyway...

-Carl

>>To thousands of musicians everywhere,
>>though, "keyboard music" means, 'can be
>>played on a keyboard in realtime, from
>>start to finish, from a score, being
>>standard notation on a single grand staff'.
>
>Actually, The Well-Tuned Piano is an interesting test case in this
>respect. In its current form, the "score," or score, or """score,"""
>as you wish, consists of La Monte's thematic skeletons and harmonic
>areas, and also of abundant transcriptions from his recordings made
>by La Monte, Michael Harrison, and myself. There's no theoretical
>reason that anyone couldn't make his or her own transcriptions of
>themes from one recording or another, send them to La Monte, and, if
>he approved them, have them become part of the official score. Almost
>the entire WTP could be transcribed, except for the "clouds," which
>are (as you all know) chords strummed in a tremolo manner; these
>could be roughly notated in some free fashion.

Kyle,

Thanks for bringing this up.

I'd call the WTP keyboard music, because it can be played by one
person at a keyboard. Based on what you've said about the scores,
if someone was asking for scores of keyboard music it wouldn't be
first on my list.

I've got many hours of improvisations I've recorded at the piano,
that I may transcribe some day, so please don't consider this
a jab at Young or the WTP.

>I suspect much the same could be said for The Harp of New Albion.

I haven't heard more than clips of the WTP, but I've improvised
for a few hours in the tuning. I do have a recording of the
Harp of New Albion, and I've listened to it closely twice, and
I dig it. From Ancient Worlds is the real chart-topper for me,
though. Still need to get Revelations.

-Carl

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <ekin@lumma.org>

> >> Noooo! I was just suggesting that it not be considered
> >> "keyboard music", in the sense that it belongs to a 500-year
> >> tradition of well, keyboard music.
> >>
> >> Of course it's still a score! :)
> >
> >Now you're saying it's not keyboard music?
> >
> >Why is the WTP not part of "your" keyboard tradition? The WTP seems to
> >be totally part of that tradition, in fact an obvious and innovative
> >continuation.
>
> I'm about to start stomping my foot. I think we've miscommunicated
> completely. I wasn't trying to say anything about the WTP at all!!

It could be the part where you wrote:
" I was just suggesting that it not be considered
"keyboard music", in the sense that it belongs to a 500-year
tradition of well, keyboard music."

You wrote it.

* David Beardsley
* microtonal guitar
* http://biink.com/db

These are published, tuned keyboard scores that I have borrowed from
Daniel Wolf's library ---

Lou Harrison, Music for Corneille's Cinna, tackpiano, just intonation
Ligeti Györgyi, Passacaglia Ungharese, meantone
Clarence Barlow, Cogluotobüsisletmesi, sub-set of 24-equal
Douglas Leedy, Harpsichord Book I, just
Douglas Leedy, The Leaves Be Green, Werkmeister III or Kirnberger III
Gordon Mumma, Octal Waltz, eight-equal
Ben Johnston, Sonata for Microtonal Piano/Grindle Music
Ben Johnston, Suite for Microtonal Piano, just
Daniel Wolf, The White Canoe, fiffth-comma tuning
Daniel Wolf, Trio, just
Jerry Hunt, clavichord piece
Jo Kondo, piece for two guitars with quartertones and electric piano

Daniel has other pieces, but these are the ones he "threw at me to
study" last week.

Gabor

>It could be the part where you wrote:
>" I was just suggesting that it not be considered
>"keyboard music", in the sense that it belongs to a 500-year
>tradition of well, keyboard music."
>
>You wrote it.

I know, I know. I wasn't referring to WTP at that point,
but mistakenly wrote it as if I was. I was late to drive
to Palo Alto. Sorry.

-C.

>These are published, tuned keyboard scores that I have borrowed from
>Daniel Wolf's library ---
>
>Lou Harrison, Music for Corneille's Cinna, tackpiano, just intonation
>Ligeti Györgyi, Passacaglia Ungharese, meantone
>Clarence Barlow, Cogluotobüsisletmesi, sub-set of 24-equal
>Douglas Leedy, Harpsichord Book I, just
>Douglas Leedy, The Leaves Be Green, Werkmeister III or Kirnberger III
>Gordon Mumma, Octal Waltz, eight-equal
>Ben Johnston, Sonata for Microtonal Piano/Grindle Music
>Ben Johnston, Suite for Microtonal Piano, just
>Daniel Wolf, The White Canoe, fiffth-comma tuning
>Daniel Wolf, Trio, just
>Jerry Hunt, clavichord piece
>Jo Kondo, piece for two guitars with quartertones and electric piano
>
>Daniel has other pieces, but these are the ones he "threw at me to
>study" last week.

Awesome! I didn't know about the Ligeti or the Leedy! And
who is Jerry Hunt?

-Carl

Re. the exchanges between Carl and the rest of you - I haven't laughed this much in days. Like an Abbott and Costello routine. Yes I know, I need a life.

Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First?"
http://fisher.osu.edu/~tomassini_1/whofirst.html

- Joel

In a message dated 2/11/03 1:50:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, ekin@lumma.org
writes:

> I didn't know about the Ligeti or the Leedy

Make sure you hear the meantone version of the Ligeti (since there are ET
recordings). It really is a great piece in modern meantone. I've wanted to
program it, but it requires a huge harpsichord which is apparently
unavailable to our harpsichordist (Rebecca Pechefsky) in NYC.

Johnny Reinhard

Joel,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Joel Rodrigues <jdrodrigues@P...>
wrote:

> Yes I know, I need a life.

"Take my life, please."

- Henny Youngerman

Cheers,Jon

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >great . . . what i hope i'll be able to do is to plug my keyboard
into
> >my roommate's midi setup (he has finale), play the piece, and
> >have it show up as a "tablature" keyboard score -- in other words,
> >the notes will show up *as played*, rather that *as sounding*. is
> >this going to work? is this what you want?
>
> You'll find that very few performers want anything like that.
You'll
> see what I mean when you try it.
>
> -Carl

Michael McGonagle still hasn't chimed in, and i still have no idea
what carl meant . . .

>Michael McGonagle still hasn't chimed in, and i still have no idea
>what carl meant . . .

Sorry to leave you in the dark, Paul. The best way to see is to
try it. You may actually get acceptable results, depending on
the type of material, and how good you are at using the tools.
Also, I assume the latest transcription software is better than
what I've last tried.

Nevertheless, I seriously doubt you'll get anything that requires
less editing work than if you had just transcribed it by hand in
the first place. :(

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >Michael McGonagle still hasn't chimed in, and i still have no idea
> >what carl meant . . .
>
> Sorry to leave you in the dark, Paul. The best way to see is to
> try it. You may actually get acceptable results, depending on
> the type of material, and how good you are at using the tools.
> Also, I assume the latest transcription software is better than
> what I've last tried.
>
> Nevertheless, I seriously doubt you'll get anything that requires
> less editing work than if you had just transcribed it by hand in
> the first place. :(
>
> -Carl

what if i did do it by hand? you said "you'll find that very few
performers want anything like that", which would remain true whether
i did it by hand or by machine.

>what if i did do it by hand? you said "you'll find that very few
>performers want anything like that", which would remain true whether
>i did it by hand or by machine.

Nooo, I don't think I said that! Very few performers want (or
can even play) the raw output of machine transcription.

-Carl

>>what if i did do it by hand? you said "you'll find that very few
>>performers want anything like that", which would remain true whether
>>i did it by hand or by machine.
>
>Nooo, I don't think I said that! Very few performers want (or
>can even play) the raw output of machine transcription.

I see now that my original reply was way too terse. Sorry Paul!

-C.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >what if i did do it by hand? you said "you'll find that very few
> >performers want anything like that", which would remain true
whether
> >i did it by hand or by machine.
>
> Nooo, I don't think I said that! Very few performers want (or
> can even play) the raw output of machine transcription.
>
> -Carl

obviously i'd use quantization (the piece has no sixteenth-
notes) . . . is that your concern?

>obviously i'd use quantization (the piece has no sixteenth-
>notes) . . . is that your concern?

Quantization is an old feature. But I don't want to jynx
you! Give it a try!

-Carl

Sorry everyone,

wallyesterpaulrus wrote:
> Michael McGonagle still hasn't chimed in, and i still have no idea
> what carl meant . . .

My email has had a brain-fart, and I have lost the last two months worth of email. I still have most of this thread here, and I really do appreciate all of the input and suggestions. I am still reading most of the later posts.

Basically, my original idea is to look for pieces that are "simple" (read that as easy to learn) for written works, OR pieces that are improvization-based with written source material ideas.

One of the things that I found interesting in pieces like "in C" is just how maliable they are. I have heard recordings of "in C" by a typical orchestra, a chamber group of about 30 soloists, a rock band, a Chinese Kyoto orchestra (which I believe was in some "traditional" chinese tuning, it did leave an impression on me, but that was years ago that I heard that recording, I wish I could remember who it was).

Anyway, back to my inquiry. I have started practicing a lot more lately, and have gotten to the point where I can reproduce some "altered" tunings on my keyboard, so I would like to find some notated pieces, mostly to start "baptizing" myself with the cool waters of non-12edo music (alright, I am being just a little flipant, sorry)...

Paul, I think you had wondered if I could read a score "as notated" and not as tuned. Frankly, I have not seen too many microtonal scores, and the ones that I have seen seem cluttered with a lot of numbers. It took too much time to try and understand what was meant. It has been some years, so I would like to see what things are the most prevelent (ie common practice, if there is such a thing).

I will look for all of these recordings that were mentioned. I did listen to Chris Bailey's Piano stuff, amazing work. I did listen to some of his other stuff as well!!!!

Thanks for replying to this.

Mike

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Joel Rodrigues <jdrodrigues@P...>

/tuning/topicId_42257.html#42353

wrote:
> Re. the exchanges between Carl and the rest of you - I haven't
> laughed this much in days. Like an Abbott and Costello routine.
> Yes I know, I need a life.
>
>
> Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First?"
> http://fisher.osu.edu/~tomassini_1/whofirst.html
>
> - Joel

***Thanks for this fun post, Joel. I always wanted to know what that
expression meant, and never did before...

J. Pehrson