hi and some questions from a newB

hello everyone

im trying to create a naturalistic-seeming music system, that is, one that
doesnt seem like it was only created by a nearly tone-deaf guy with a korg
n364 (as is the case). ive played with various equal temperments, right now
im liking 7-tone the most. but what im wondering is, what are some universal
characteristics of naturally created music systems as far as intervals,
tones, scales go? is 7 tone equal temperment just unlikely for this? also, i
keep seeing terms like "septimal minor third" and whatnot, is there like a
giant list of all these terms used to describe all intervals, especially a
chart showing it in cents?

davidolus

--- In tuning@y..., diabolusi@a... wrote:
> also, i keep seeing terms like "septimal minor third" and whatnot,
> is there like a giant list of all these terms used to describe all
> intervals, especially a chart showing it in cents?

Bear in mind that this list, being large and dedicated, contains a lot of people who are breaking new ground and pushing those old envelopes. There are also people who like jargon and terminology tennis. :) About the only good place to go (again, keeping in mind that some of the terms are new, in dispute, or simply relatively unknown) is Joe Monzo's great Tuning Dictionary:

http://sonic-arts.org/dict/index.htm

Beyond that, just post a specific question and you'll most likely get a good response (post a vague question and this place will babble like blithering ninnies for weeks on end...).

Good luck on being natural,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., diabolusi@a... wrote:
> > also, i keep seeing terms like "septimal minor third" and whatnot,
> > is there like a giant list of all these terms used to describe all
> > intervals, especially a chart showing it in cents?
>
> Bear in mind that this list, being large and dedicated, contains a lot of people who are breaking new ground and pushing those old envelopes. There are also people who like jargon and terminology tennis. :) About the only good place to go (again, keeping in mind that some of the terms are new, in dispute, or simply relatively unknown) is Joe Monzo's great Tuning Dictionary:
>
> http://sonic-arts.org/dict/index.htm

There is also just what he was asking for--a giant list of intervals:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/intervals.html

--- In tuning@y..., "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> There is also just what he was asking for--a giant list of intervals:
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/intervals.html

Yikes, I didn't realize that! Thankee, thankee Gene!!

Cheers,
Jon

(P.S. I haven't looked, but does that list pretty much please most people? It seems like all recent discussions about interval names, which I have _not_ followed closely, centered around the difficulty of agreement on the terms to be used...)

--- In tuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

> (P.S. I haven't looked, but does that list pretty much please most people?

I think its great, but it's not the list I would make in the sense that I'd be inclinded to take some things off to make room for others.
There is also a case for simply a comma list; I have my own lists of commas which I often use, but havn't tried to name them.

I'm still waiting for Manuel to relent and let the ennealimma
(2 (25/27)^9 = 7629394531250/7625597484987) onto the list. :)

>

Hello Davidolus!
Welcome and first of all i like many others will tell you to follow your own ear firsrt since the important thing is to do what is natural to you. Just so you know quite a few cultures have adopted sccales in the 7 ET range. You might enjoy playing with soime of the scales of the Chopi of Mozambique which you can find in the world scale depository.
http://www.anaphoria.com/depos.html
also under the beginning african scales will you be able to find some chopi scales.
thailand, Burma and Sumatra are other scenters for such scale family, if not certain subsets of Pelog which are foound in Java and Bali, sources of which are at the above mentioned place

>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:42:54 EST
> From: diabolusi@aol.com
> Subject: hi and some questions from a newB
>
> hello everyone
>
> im trying to create a naturalistic-seeming music system, that is, one that
> doesnt seem like it was only created by a nearly tone-deaf guy with a korg
> n364 (as is the case). ive played with various equal temperments, right now
> im liking 7-tone the most. but what im wondering is, what are some universal
> characteristics of naturally created music systems as far as intervals,
> tones, scales go? is 7 tone equal temperment just unlikely for this? also, i
> keep seeing terms like "septimal minor third" and whatnot, is there like a
> giant list of all these terms used to describe all intervals, especially a
> chart showing it in cents?
>
> davidolus
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM 8-9PM PST

--- In tuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@j...>
wrote:
> > There is also just what he was asking for--a giant list of
intervals:
> >
> > http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/intervals.html
>
> Yikes, I didn't realize that! Thankee, thankee Gene!!
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
> (P.S. I haven't looked, but does that list pretty much please
>most people? It seems like all recent discussions about
>interval names, which I have _not_ followed closely, centered
>around the difficulty of agreement on the terms to be used...)

kyle gann has such a list too:

http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/Octave.html

either list will suffice to look up what a "septimal minor third" is . .
. terms like "major diesis", though, have different definitions
depending on who you're drawing on as a reference, so things
get pretty messy with intervals already . . . and the recent
discussions you're referring to actually concerned the naming of
*chords*, which is far more hairy still . . .

--- In tuning@y..., "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_40923.html#40931

> --- In tuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., diabolusi@a... wrote:
> > > also, i keep seeing terms like "septimal minor third" and
whatnot,
> > > is there like a giant list of all these terms used to describe
all
> > > intervals, especially a chart showing it in cents?
> >
> > Bear in mind that this list, being large and dedicated, contains
a lot of people who are breaking new ground and pushing those old
envelopes. There are also people who like jargon and terminology
tennis. :) About the only good place to go (again, keeping in mind
that some of the terms are new, in dispute, or simply relatively
unknown) is Joe Monzo's great Tuning Dictionary:
> >
> > http://sonic-arts.org/dict/index.htm
>
> There is also just what he was asking for--a giant list of
intervals:
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/intervals.html

***He should probably also know that this list, compiled by Manuel Op
de Coul, is the same one that is automatically generated by SCALA,
not surprisingly. (I believe I'm correct on this...)

J. Pehrson

Gene wrote
>I'm still waiting for Manuel to relent and let the ennealimma
>(2 (25/27)^9 = 7629394531250/7625597484987) onto the list. :)

Ok, I relent :)

Joseph wrote
>***He should probably also know that this list, compiled by Manuel Op
>de Coul, is the same one that is automatically generated by SCALA,
>not surprisingly. (I believe I'm correct on this...)

You mean automagically? Alas, it's entirely handwork.

Manuel

--- In tuning@y..., manuel.op.de.coul@e... wrote:
> Gene wrote
> >I'm still waiting for Manuel to relent and let the ennealimma
> >(2 (25/27)^9 = 7629394531250/7625597484987) onto the list. :)
>
> Ok, I relent :)

And there was much rejoicing in the land (though exactly why, no one was sure.)

--- In tuning@y..., "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., manuel.op.de.coul@e... wrote:
> > Gene wrote
> > >I'm still waiting for Manuel to relent and let the ennealimma
> > >(2 (25/27)^9 = 7629394531250/7625597484987) onto the list. :)
> >
> > Ok, I relent :)
>
> And there was much rejoicing in the land (though exactly why, no
>one was sure.)

so what do we call (7/6)^9 / 4 = 40353607/40310784, which is another
example of an "ennea" comma that vanishes in ennealimmal temperament?

--- In tuning@y..., "wallyesterpaulrus" <wallyesterpaulrus@y...> wrote:

> so what do we call (7/6)^9 / 4 = 40353607/40310784, which is another
> example of an "ennea" comma that vanishes in ennealimmal temperament?

Ennea-something, I suppose, unless you think (4375/4374)*(2401/2400)^2
does the job.