Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55

hello all,

i've finally made a webpage which i probably should
have created a long time ago -- it's another
"mouseover" applet ... this one allows the user to
see a pitch-height graph of all EDOs from 5 to 55,
and to easily compare them by sliding the mouse over
the cardinality-number of the EDO.

http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm

ignore the garbage numbers at the bottom of each
graph ... consider this a "rough draft", and
eventually i'll clean that up.

-monz
"all roads lead to n^0"

🔗monz <monz@attglobal.net>

> From: "monz" <monz@attglobal.net>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 11:58 PM
> Subject: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
>

i meant to add: note that cents-values are given
as fractions rather than decimals. this allows
one to see the exact cents-value for each EDO.

-monz
"all roads lead to n^0"

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

It would help if the graph was on the side of the table,
so it would fit on the screen.

----- Original Message -----
From: "monz" <monz@attglobal.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:58 AM
Subject: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55

> hello all,
>
>
> i've finally made a webpage which i probably should
> have created a long time ago -- it's another
> "mouseover" applet ... this one allows the user to
> see a pitch-height graph of all EDOs from 5 to 55,
> and to easily compare them by sliding the mouse over
> the cardinality-number of the EDO.
>
> http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
>
>
> ignore the garbage numbers at the bottom of each
> graph ... consider this a "rough draft", and
> eventually i'll clean that up.
>
>
>
>
> -monz
> "all roads lead to n^0"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
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for the tuning group.
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mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

🔗monz <monz@attglobal.net>

i wanted to do it that way, and tried, but couldn't
figure out how to get it right. any suggestions?

-monz

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beardsley" <davidbeardsley@biink.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55

> It would help if the graph was on the side of the table,
> so it would fit on the screen.
>
> dB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "monz" <monz@attglobal.net>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:58 AM
> Subject: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
>
>
> > hello all,
> >
> >
> > i've finally made a webpage which i probably should
> > have created a long time ago -- it's another
> > "mouseover" applet ... this one allows the user to
> > see a pitch-height graph of all EDOs from 5 to 55,
> > and to easily compare them by sliding the mouse over
> > the cardinality-number of the EDO.
> >
> > http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
> >
> >
> > ignore the garbage numbers at the bottom of each
> > graph ... consider this a "rough draft", and
> > eventually i'll clean that up.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -monz
> > "all roads lead to n^0"

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

Make a html table with two columns, place the
numbers in the left side and the graphic
in the right.

----- Original Message -----
From: "monz" <monz@attglobal.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55

> i wanted to do it that way, and tried, but couldn't
> figure out how to get it right. any suggestions?
>
>
> -monz
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Beardsley" <davidbeardsley@biink.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 5:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
>
>
> > It would help if the graph was on the side of the table,
> > so it would fit on the screen.
> >
> > dB
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "monz" <monz@attglobal.net>
> > To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:58 AM
> > Subject: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
> >
> >
> > > hello all,
> > >
> > >
> > > i've finally made a webpage which i probably should
> > > have created a long time ago -- it's another
> > > "mouseover" applet ... this one allows the user to
> > > see a pitch-height graph of all EDOs from 5 to 55,
> > > and to easily compare them by sliding the mouse over
> > > the cardinality-number of the EDO.
> > >
> > > http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > ignore the garbage numbers at the bottom of each
> > > graph ... consider this a "rough draft", and
> > > eventually i'll clean that up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -monz
> > > "all roads lead to n^0"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold
for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

🔗monz <monz@attglobal.net>

right, Dave, of course. thanks.

but that will entail redoing the table, because
i've already got it set up to hold all the numbers.

the only way i know how to do it is to use the
<PRE> tag to set the numbers up in only one <TR>
and <TD>, instead of each number in a separate
<TD> as i have it now. i'll fix it when i can
get around to it.

-monz

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beardsley" <davidbeardsley@biink.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55

> Make a html table with two columns, place the
> numbers in the left side and the graphic
> in the right.
>
> dB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "monz" <monz@attglobal.net>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 12:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
>
>
> > i wanted to do it that way, and tried, but couldn't
> > figure out how to get it right. any suggestions?
> >
> >
> > -monz
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Beardsley" <davidbeardsley@biink.com>
> > To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 5:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
> >
> >
> > > It would help if the graph was on the side of the table,
> > > so it would fit on the screen.
> > >
> > > dB
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "monz" <monz@attglobal.net>
> > > To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 2:58 AM
> > > Subject: [tuning] pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
> > >
> > >
> > > > hello all,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i've finally made a webpage which i probably should
> > > > have created a long time ago -- it's another
> > > > "mouseover" applet ... this one allows the user to
> > > > see a pitch-height graph of all EDOs from 5 to 55,
> > > > and to easily compare them by sliding the mouse over
> > > > the cardinality-number of the EDO.
> > > >
> > > > http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ignore the garbage numbers at the bottom of each
> > > > graph ... consider this a "rough draft", and
> > > > eventually i'll clean that up.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -monz
> > > > "all roads lead to n^0"

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_40522.html#40522

***This is great, but even in "full screen" mode I can't see all of
it. Wouldn't it be better to run the numbers *down the side* next to
the graph??

Joe

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_40522.html#40525

> i wanted to do it that way, and tried, but couldn't
> figure out how to get it right. any suggestions?
>
>
> -monz
>
***Maybe, if it's a formatting problem you can try to use *frames*
and target one to the left and one to the right... ??

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_40522.html#40532

> right, Dave, of course. thanks.
>
> but that will entail redoing the table, because
> i've already got it set up to hold all the numbers.
>
> the only way i know how to do it is to use the
> <PRE> tag to set the numbers up in only one <TR>
> and <TD>, instead of each number in a separate
> <TD> as i have it now. i'll fix it when i can
> get around to it.
>
>
>
> -monz
>

***I wish you would, Monz, since it's actually pretty cool... but
it's really not working the way it is now...

Joe P.

🔗monz <monz@attglobal.net>

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_40522.html#40585

> OK, so ... a create a nice new webpage, i get complaints
> about it, i fix it right away ...
>
> http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
>
>
> please send donations to:
>
> Joe Monzo
> 4432-B Illinois St
> San Diego, CA 92116
>
>
***Hi Monz!

This is just terrific. My $25 webpage contribution will be in the
mail... However, can I make it a tax deduction, or do I have to
address it to "Sonic Arts??" Seriously.

Joe Pehrson

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

> OK, so ... a create a nice new webpage, i get complaints
> about it, i fix it right away ...
>
> http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm

There seems to be some mung (overlapping digits) at the bottom
of the plot on my machine...

Also, wouldn't it be better to have harmonics 8-16 as a reference
on the plot than 12-tET?

-C.

🔗wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> > OK, so ... a create a nice new webpage, i get complaints
> > about it, i fix it right away ...
> >
> > http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
>
> There seems to be some mung (overlapping digits) at the bottom
> of the plot on my machine...
>
> Also, wouldn't it be better to have harmonics 8-16 as a reference
> on the plot than 12-tET?
>
> -C.

partch's tonality diamond, which monz already has on some similar
charts, would be more useful, particularly for ETs like 46 and 58.

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

>>Also, wouldn't it be better to have harmonics 8-16 as a reference
>>on the plot than 12-tET?
>
>partch's tonality diamond, which monz already has on some similar
>charts, would be more useful, particularly for ETs like 46 and 58.

How so?

I would think:

() It would get too crowded on the plot.

() The ets already do the octave inversions and the transpositions
perfectly, so...

-Carl

🔗wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> >>Also, wouldn't it be better to have harmonics 8-16 as a reference
> >>on the plot than 12-tET?
> >
> >partch's tonality diamond, which monz already has on some similar
> >charts, would be more useful, particularly for ETs like 46 and 58.
>
> How so?
>
> I would think:
>
> () It would get too crowded on the plot.

it's not too bad if you look at them, though a better job could be
done distinguishing the different odd "limits" of the diamond.
>
> () The ets already do the octave inversions and the transpositions
> perfectly, so...

i'll give you inversions, but transpositions? what transpositions?

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

>>() It would get too crowded on the plot.
>
>it's not too bad if you look at them, though a better job could be
>done distinguishing the different odd "limits" of the diamond.

Where are you looking at them?

Different odd "limits" of the diamond??

>>() The ets already do the octave inversions and the transpositions
>>perfectly, so...
>
>i'll give you inversions, but transpositions? what transpositions?

Since the diamond is a list of harmonics transposed by their
inversions, if you know the error of a given harmonic in a given
et, you just subtract it from the errors of the entire series
to get that column of the diamond. Therefore I submit that a
diamond reference would add no important information to monz's
chart.

-Carl

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@rcn.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_40522.html#40526
>
> > Make a html table with two columns, place the
> > numbers in the left side and the graphic
> > in the right.
> >
> > dB
> >
>
> ***This is a better idea than *my* suggestion...

Thanks JP, I've designed toms of html.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

🔗wallyesterpaulrus <wallyesterpaulrus@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> >>() It would get too crowded on the plot.
> >
> >it's not too bad if you look at them, though a better job could be
> >done distinguishing the different odd "limits" of the diamond.
>
> Where are you looking at them?

http://www.sonic-arts.org/dict/ETgraphs.htm -- after the first one.

> Different odd "limits" of the diamond??

yeah, ratios of 1, ratios of 3, ratios of 5, ratios of 7, ratios of
9, ratios of 11.

> >>() The ets already do the octave inversions and the transpositions
> >>perfectly, so...
> >
> >i'll give you inversions, but transpositions? what transpositions?
>
> Since the diamond is a list of harmonics transposed by their
> inversions, if you know the error of a given harmonic in a given
> et, you just subtract it from the errors of the entire series
> to get that column of the diamond.

right, but it's far from easy to do that subtraction visually, and
this doesn't even work right if you want a mapping based on the
closest approximation of the major sixth, say.

> Therefore I submit that a
> diamond reference would add no important information to monz's
> chart.

you couldn't tell how much better 72 is than 53 if you just plotted
the harmonics.

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "monz" <monz@attglobal.net>

> OK, so ... a create a nice new webpage, i get complaints
> about it, i fix it right away ...

Very nice.

> please send donations to:

My invoice for consulting is in the mail.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_40522.html#40622

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
>
> > --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> >
> > /tuning/topicId_40522.html#40526
> >
> > > Make a html table with two columns, place the
> > > numbers in the left side and the graphic
> > > in the right.
> > >
> > > dB
> > >
> >
> > ***This is a better idea than *my* suggestion...
>
> Thanks JP, I've designed toms of html.
>
>
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
> * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

***Hi David!

Yes, so it seems! Myself, I've only done a couple of toms...

🔗monz <monz@attglobal.net>

hi Joe,

> From: "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@rcn.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 10:05 AM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
>
>
> --- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_40522.html#40585
>
>
> > OK, so ... a create a nice new webpage, i get complaints
> > about it, i fix it right away ...
> >
> > http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
> >
> >
> > please send donations to:
> >
> > Joe Monzo
> > 4432-B Illinois St
> > San Diego, CA 92116
> >
> >
> ***Hi Monz!
>
> This is just terrific. My $25 webpage contribution will be in the
> mail... However, can I make it a tax deduction, or do I have to
> address it to "Sonic Arts??" Seriously.

well, i certainly appreciate your willingness to contribute!

i'll have to talk to Jonathan Glasier to find out about
donations to Sonic Arts and their status as tax deductions.
if you send it directly to me, i don't think you can claim it ...

-monz

🔗monz <monz@attglobal.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 11:22 AM
Subject: [tuning] Re: pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55

> > OK, so ... a create a nice new webpage, i get complaints
> > about it, i fix it right away ...
> >
> > http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
>
> There seems to be some mung (overlapping digits) at the bottom
> of the plot on my machine...

i mention that on the webpage, Carl. i did this very quickly
in a few hours the other night and wanted to get it online.
i'll have to take the time at some future date to go back in
and clean the junk off the graphic files. just ignore it for now.

> Also, wouldn't it be better to have harmonics 8-16 as a reference
> on the plot than 12-tET?

i suppose many people (myself included) would find that beneficial.
unfortunately, Microsoft Excel, which is what is generally use
to create my tuning graphics, doesn't allow one to mark a graph
axis with varying divisions such as would be produced by a
harmonic series. i have to go with some equal division, and
12edo seemed to be the most sensible choice.

-monz
"all roads lead to n^0"

🔗Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

>>There seems to be some mung (overlapping digits) at the bottom
>>of the plot on my machine...
>
>i mention that on the webpage, Carl.

Where?

>just ignore it for now.

No sweat.

>>Also, wouldn't it be better to have harmonics 8-16 as a reference
>>on the plot than 12-tET?
>
>i suppose many people (myself included) would find that beneficial.
>unfortunately, Microsoft Excel, which is what is generally use
>to create my tuning graphics, doesn't allow one to mark a graph
>axis with varying divisions such as would be produced by a
>harmonic series. i have to go with some equal division, and
>12edo seemed to be the most sensible choice.

I'm not an excel user, but can't you just enter a row of the
harmonic values, and then assign an axis on the plot that row?

-Carl

🔗monz <monz@attglobal.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Lumma" <clumma@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:21 AM
Subject: [tuning] Re: pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55

> > > There seems to be some mung (overlapping digits) at the bottom
> > > of the plot on my machine...
> >
> > i mention that on the webpage, Carl.
>
> Where?

oops, my bad. i must have said it in a tuning list post.
i'll add that disclaimer to the page. good call.

http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm

> > just ignore it [the junk at the bottom] for now.
>
> No sweat.
>
> >>Also, wouldn't it be better to have harmonics 8-16 as a reference
> >>on the plot than 12-tET?
> >
> >i suppose many people (myself included) would find that beneficial.
> >unfortunately, Microsoft Excel, which is what is generally use
> >to create my tuning graphics, doesn't allow one to mark a graph
> >axis with varying divisions such as would be produced by a
> >harmonic series. i have to go with some equal division, and
> >12edo seemed to be the most sensible choice.
>
> I'm not an excel user, but can't you just enter a row of the
> harmonic values, and then assign an axis on the plot that row?

right -- you can assign the y-axis for one set of source data
to a spreadsheet row or column, and that data will be graphed.
that would be something i could do, which would be similar to
the old graphs of mine which paul pointed to. it would work OK,
in that at least it would display the comparison data you want
to see.

but you can't simply set the scale of the y-axis to be divided
according to the harmonic proportions. you can only set min/max
and "major unit" and "minor unit", and so the graph assumes that
the unit divisions of the y-axis will be equal. i wish Excel
would allow me to put a formula in that command, but it won't
-- it only allows floating-point numeric format.

-monz
"all roads lead to n^0"

🔗Joseph Pehrson <jpehrson@rcn.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_40522.html#40656

> hi Joe,
>
> > From: "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
> > To: <tuning@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 10:05 AM
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: pitch-height applet comparing EDOs 5 to 55
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> >
> > /tuning/topicId_40522.html#40585
> >
> >
> > > OK, so ... a create a nice new webpage, i get complaints
> > > about it, i fix it right away ...
> > >
> > > http://sonic-arts.org/dict/edo-pitch-height.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > please send donations to:
> > >
> > > Joe Monzo
> > > 4432-B Illinois St
> > > San Diego, CA 92116
> > >
> > >
> > ***Hi Monz!
> >
> > This is just terrific. My $25 webpage contribution will be in the
> > mail... However, can I make it a tax deduction, or do I have to
> > address it to "Sonic Arts??" Seriously.
>
>
>
> well, i certainly appreciate your willingness to contribute!
>
> i'll have to talk to Jonathan Glasier to find out about
> donations to Sonic Arts and their status as tax deductions.
> if you send it directly to me, i don't think you can claim it ...
>
>
>
> -monz

***Hi Monz!

Yes, if you want to do it the "professional" way, your Website should
be set up as a non-profit, as Kraig Grady's is...

I'll certainly be more than happy to contribute under those
conditions... it's a great service. Please let me know about Sonic
Arts, and if I can contribute to a non-profit tax deductible
organization, I'll do it!

Thanks!

Joe