and yet another performer response

And here's yet *another* anonymous 72-tET performer response:

"Possibly. But it's a great deal of work even for 3x the money, so I
need some more info -Who's the composer? How are the electronics
generated? It's a premiere? What's on the CD?
A big issue for me is rehearsal time, What's involved in that? Are
there electronic performers I have to coordinate with?
It's awfully little money. Can you get it up to $200? Do you get
reviewed by the NY Times? 72 tones may sound like no big deal to you,
but although I've played quarter tone pieces and a sixth tone piece,
combining quarter & sixth tones is a lot!
Not sure I can make my fingers (and ears) that small! Also depends on
how dense that 10 minutes is."

***Uh huh.

Like they say, fuggedaboudid!

JP

--- In tuning@y..., "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> And here's yet *another* anonymous 72-tET performer response:

Joe, I'm sure there is more that I could write on this, and probably will (but privately), but I just wanted to make a public message of support for you.

It is, of course, disheartening to see such mundane and crass negotiations over a piece of music. I will be accused of many things by saying this, but I happen to believe this is the 'dark' side of not only some of the 'bigger' music communities, but also I tend to think it is a bit of an East coast attitude. I'm willing to be wrong on the latter, but I really wonder if the looser attitudes on the Pacific side of the country might work better in your favor.

Well, those are problems we can't solve easily, but maybe there are other ways... You definitely are throwing off the vibe of packing it in, and just presenting such works as electronic.

How about a middle path?

What would happen if, as you pursue non-12 music, you devote a little more time (and, probably - and unfortunately - a little more cash for gear) on recordings of the pieces that you *still* would like to be for live performance. Maybe when you present the piece to a performer a very well-done recording of the piece, while viewed along with the score, would allow these players to see just what an _opportunity_ it would be for them to play it!

If they are simply 'hardened criminals' that respond only to how much it will pay them vs. how hard it will be to prepare, then you'll likely have to look elsewhere. Frankly, those kind of people won't ever be part of my ensembles! But - in a certain sense - the burden is a little on you, the composer, to illuminate the performer as to the positive aspects of the music they just might have a chance to play. I doubt simply looking at a score will sway many people, but maybe a good recording, that at least hints at the drama, musical complexity, or evocative experience to be had will do what dollars and arm twisting can't.

Long-winded. It always seems to end up that way with me. But I'm really hoping that you just take your time and find the Right Person to do the piece. They must be out there.

You'll find them.

Best,
Jon

Joseph Pehrson wrote:

> And here's yet *another* anonymous 72-tET performer response:
>
> "Possibly. But it's a great deal of work even for 3x the money, so I
> need some more info -Who's the composer? How are the electronics
> generated? It's a premiere? What's on the CD?
> A big issue for me is rehearsal time, What's involved in that? Are
> there electronic performers I have to coordinate with?
> It's awfully little money. Can you get it up to $200? Do you get
> reviewed by the NY Times? 72 tones may sound like no big deal to you,
> but although I've played quarter tone pieces and a sixth tone piece,
> combining quarter & sixth tones is a lot!
> Not sure I can make my fingers (and ears) that small! Also depends on
> how dense that 10 minutes is."
>
> ***Uh huh.
>
> Like they say, fuggedaboudid!
>
> JP

I have to say that comments like these grip my sh*t.

I remember reading somewhere that the late John Lewis, jazzman, was teaching some students and one
asked when the rewards would start rolling in for all the woodshedding and study. He meant of
course financial rewards. John Lewis told him that the reward was the privilege of playing music
here and now, nothing more.

I wish more of the rat-race, look-over-your-shoulder "pros" that I encounter and obviously Joseph
does too, would reassess their priorities from time to time, particularly with new music. Good
luck Joseph.

Kind Regards

--- In tuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39459.html#39461

> Joe, I'm sure there is more that I could write on this, and
probably will (but privately), but I just wanted to make a public
message of support for you.
>

***I appreciate that, Jon, and my point in posting all this is, quite
frankly, to illustrate the *realities* that some of us are up against
working with so called "professional" performers, particularly in the
New York area...

> It is, of course, disheartening to see such mundane and crass
negotiations over a piece of music. I will be accused of many things
by saying this, but I happen to believe this is the 'dark' side of
not only some of the 'bigger' music communities, but also I tend to
think it is a bit of an East coast attitude. I'm willing to be wrong
on the latter, but I really wonder if the looser attitudes on the
Pacific side of the country might work better in your favor.
>

***I've got my surfboard, dude! Just need a place to crash! (But,
seriously, you're probably right here, although economic
considerations *must* be a big part of LA...)

> Well, those are problems we can't solve easily, but maybe there are
other ways... You definitely are throwing off the vibe of packing it
in, and just presenting such works as electronic.
>

***Oh, that was just momentary depression! I'm a "die hard"
microtonal enthusiast; I'm just trying to find out the most practical
way of going about this.

I guess the most *extreme* solution I would tackle, if pushed, would
be to do what composer Jonathan Harvey does sometimes, and that is
put the microtonal stuff in the electronic part, and keep the
performer mostly in 12-tET. With 72-tET, of course, that works like
a charm...

HOWEVER, I really believe it is in the interest of the *performers*
to try these new things and, I agree, I have to sell it a bit more.
However, the attitude of this particular person just cited was *so*
bad, I don't even want to try the salesmanship angle. Two words
apply to this person: F*ck you!

> How about a middle path?
>
> What would happen if, as you pursue non-12 music, you devote a
little more time (and, probably - and unfortunately - a little more
cash for gear) on recordings of the pieces that you *still* would
like to be for live performance. Maybe when you present the piece to
a performer a very well-done recording of the piece, while viewed
along with the score, would allow these players to see just what an
_opportunity_ it would be for them to play it!
>

***This is a good idea and, in fact, I've done this in some cases,
since I *do* have some relatively good recordings of microtonal
pieces, that I send along... A premiere is a bit more problematic,
but I'm still optimistic...

In any case, I'm just reporting various hurdles we have to deal with
as we try to integrate microtonality into the *larger* community...
It's all on a "person by person" basis, of course, and it takes the
right person and the right attitude!

best,

Joe

--- In tuning@y..., Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@w...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39459.html#39485

>
>
> Joseph Pehrson wrote:
>
> > And here's yet *another* anonymous 72-tET performer response:
> >
> > "Possibly. But it's a great deal of work even for 3x the money,
so I
> > need some more info -Who's the composer? How are the electronics
> > generated? It's a premiere? What's on the CD?
> > A big issue for me is rehearsal time, What's involved in that? Are
> > there electronic performers I have to coordinate with?
> > It's awfully little money. Can you get it up to $200? Do you get
> > reviewed by the NY Times? 72 tones may sound like no big deal to
you,
> > but although I've played quarter tone pieces and a sixth tone
piece,
> > combining quarter & sixth tones is a lot!
> > Not sure I can make my fingers (and ears) that small! Also
depends on
> > how dense that 10 minutes is."
> >
> > ***Uh huh.
> >
> > Like they say, fuggedaboudid!
> >
> > JP
>
> I have to say that comments like these grip my sh*t.
>
> I remember reading somewhere that the late John Lewis, jazzman, was
teaching some students and one
> asked when the rewards would start rolling in for all the
woodshedding and study. He meant of
> course financial rewards. John Lewis told him that the reward was
the privilege of playing music
> here and now, nothing more.
>
> I wish more of the rat-race, look-over-your-shoulder "pros" that I
encounter and obviously Joseph
> does too, would reassess their priorities from time to time,
particularly with new music. Good
> luck Joseph.
>
> Kind Regards

***Hi Alison!

Thanks so much for the supportiveness! Well, my point, basically is
that this is a *frequent* response of the "pros!" I'm beginning to
think I had better luck with my violist last year than I thought.
Although she played my micro piece *miserably* at least she *tried*
it!

Little do many of these performers know that in addition to the
*psychic* gains, there are *practical* gains to playing microtonality
as well. The most obvious one, of course, would be a greater
sensitivity to pitch and intonation even for *traditional* 12-equal
pieces! I know my *own* hearing has improved in this process.

Maybe I'll get some *positive* responses, too. I'll try to post some
of these anonymously: the good, the bad and the *ugly...* :)

Thanks again!

Joseph