going "against the grain"

Well, the cellist who we hoped would do my _Blackjack_ piece backed
out. Actually, this is the *second* cellist to do this.

The stated reason, "a microtonal piece like this will be too much of
a time commitment" (also the identical reason the first person
backed out...)

Maybe I'll have to confine my microtonal explorations more to
*electronic* works, if this trend continues...

Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39393.html#39393

> Well, the cellist who we hoped would do my _Blackjack_ piece backed
> out. Actually, this is the *second* cellist to do this.
>
> The stated reason, "a microtonal piece like this will be too much
of
> a time commitment" (also the identical reason the first person
> backed out...)
>
> Maybe I'll have to confine my microtonal explorations more to
> *electronic* works, if this trend continues...
>
> Joseph Pehrson

***Or even better yet, if I'm working in 72-tET, I can keep the
*players* mostly in 12-tET, and use the electronics for the *other*
microtones...

Seems they should be a bit more adventurous, though... :(

JP

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@rcn.com>

> Well, the cellist who we hoped would do my _Blackjack_ piece backed
> out. Actually, this is the *second* cellist to do this.
>
> The stated reason, "a microtonal piece like this will be too much of
> a time commitment" (also the identical reason the first person
> backed out...)
>
> Maybe I'll have to confine my microtonal explorations more to
> *electronic* works, if this trend continues...

My solution was to perform my own music. I'm not
really interested in having a band, although a friend
"really" wants to play with me so I've been writing
on the side for a trio. I'll have to push him into using
a just tuning.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

How disappointing to see this stuff again. Asking a neophyte cellist for $50 to put themselves on the line professionally with a 72-tone piece is more the problem of the asker than the askee.

The "microtonal" cellists on the AFMM are way too many to recall each. Certainly, besides present AFMM Ensemble cellist David Eggar, there is:

Jodi Beder
Jennifer Devore
Darret Adkins
and 10 others whose names I can't recall. I'm in Ottawa, Ontario at present. If only Joseph, an AFMM board member, would ask an enlightened musician, all will be fine. Instead, he seems to be asking dead wood.

Please, David and Joseph, stop spreading rumors on the list that you have reached a dead end with players. It bothers me greatly because it is contrary to the spread of microtonal composition. Besides, the special notation of Miricle is scary, as I have said many times before, to players that have been trained to interpret cents.

best, Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39393.html#39401

> How disappointing to see this stuff again. Asking a neophyte
cellist for $50 to put themselves on the line professionally with a
72-tone piece is more the problem of the asker than the askee.
>
> The "microtonal" cellists on the AFMM are way too many to recall
each. Certainly, besides present AFMM Ensemble cellist David Eggar,
there is:
>
> Jodi Beder
> Jennifer Devore
> Darret Adkins
> and 10 others whose names I can't recall. I'm in Ottawa, Ontario at
present. If only Joseph, an AFMM board member, would ask an
enlightened musician, all will be fine. Instead, he seems to be
asking dead wood.
>
> Please, David and Joseph, stop spreading rumors on the list that
you have reached a dead end with players. It bothers me greatly
because it is contrary to the spread of microtonal composition.
Besides, the special notation of Miricle is scary, as I have said
many times before, to players that have been trained to interpret
cents.
>
> best, Johnny Reinhard

***Sorry, Johnny, but one of the professional cellists that you
mention was one who "refused" to play the piece, so that could
undercut your argument.

Besides, our group surely pays more than $50 for this...

Now, as to the Sims notation being "scary" contrasted to cents,
dunno. I don't think players like to see a lot of numbers all over
the place, either, but possibly the Sims does throw them.

Let's talk *reality* here...

Joseph

--- In tuning@y..., "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39393.html#39403

> --- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_39393.html#39401
>
>
> > How disappointing to see this stuff again. Asking a neophyte
> cellist for $50 to put themselves on the line professionally with a
> 72-tone piece is more the problem of the asker than the askee.
> >
> > The "microtonal" cellists on the AFMM are way too many to recall
> each. Certainly, besides present AFMM Ensemble cellist David
Eggar,
> there is:
> >
> > Jodi Beder
> > Jennifer Devore
> > Darret Adkins
> > and 10 others whose names I can't recall. I'm in Ottawa, Ontario
at
> present. If only Joseph, an AFMM board member, would ask an
> enlightened musician, all will be fine. Instead, he seems to be
> asking dead wood.
> >
> > Please, David and Joseph, stop spreading rumors on the list that
> you have reached a dead end with players. It bothers me greatly
> because it is contrary to the spread of microtonal composition.
> Besides, the special notation of Miricle is scary, as I have said
> many times before, to players that have been trained to interpret
> cents.
> >
> > best, Johnny Reinhard
>
>
> ***Sorry, Johnny, but one of the professional cellists that you
> mention was one who "refused" to play the piece, so that could
> undercut your argument.
>
> Besides, our group surely pays more than $50 for this...
>
> Now, as to the Sims notation being "scary" contrasted to cents,
> dunno. I don't think players like to see a lot of numbers all over
> the place, either, but possibly the Sims does throw them.
>
> Let's talk *reality* here...
>
> Joseph

***Oh... I should also add, though that the other "professional"
violist that played my piece last year in CENTS notation also did a
very poor job of it.

I'm beginning to think that microtonality is really only suited to a
very small cadre of the "dedicated." After all, that's what the AFMM
has been...

J. Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39393.html#39404

>
> ***Oh... I should also add, though that the other "professional"
> violist that played my piece last year in CENTS notation also did a
> very poor job of it.
>
> I'm beginning to think that microtonality is really only suited to
a
> very small cadre of the "dedicated." After all, that's what the
AFMM has been...
>
> J. Pehrson

***I should hasten to add, though, before this gets *too* dismal,
that I *am* sending these pieces around to *other* players, so the
results are not entirely in yet! It could be we find some
other "converts" or potential enthusiasts! I have to admit, though,
that today's refusal of the Sims notation piece was a bit
discouraging!

J. Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> Please, David and Joseph, stop spreading rumors on the list that
>you have reached a dead end with players. It bothers me greatly
>because it is contrary to the spread of microtonal composition.
>Besides, the special notation of Miricle is scary, as I have said
>many times before, to players that have been trained to interpret
>cents.
>
> best, Johnny Reinhard

johnny, please stop spreading rumors on the list that "the special
notation of Miricle is scary". joseph is simply using the ezra sims
microtonal notation (which adds quarter-tone, sixth-tone, and tweltfh-
tone accidentals, and that's it, to standard notation) that is widely
understood in boston and elsewhere. perhaps cents would get him more
players in new york, but there is absolutely no "special notation of
Miricle" in play here.

--- In tuning@y..., "wallyesterpaulrus" <wallyesterpaulrus@y...>

/tuning/topicId_39393.html#39412

wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
> > Please, David and Joseph, stop spreading rumors on the list that
> >you have reached a dead end with players. It bothers me greatly
> >because it is contrary to the spread of microtonal composition.
> >Besides, the special notation of Miricle is scary, as I have said
> >many times before, to players that have been trained to interpret
> >cents.
> >
> > best, Johnny Reinhard
>
> johnny, please stop spreading rumors on the list that "the special
> notation of Miricle is scary". joseph is simply using the ezra sims
> microtonal notation (which adds quarter-tone, sixth-tone, and
tweltfh-
> tone accidentals, and that's it, to standard notation) that is
widely
> understood in boston and elsewhere. perhaps cents would get him
more
> players in new york, but there is absolutely no "special notation
of
> Miricle" in play here.

***Well, despite what Johnny sometimes "professes" there is no
specific *cents school* in New York any more than anyplace else, that
is aside from the rather limited number of AFMM instrumentalists that
Johnny has worked with over and over. The same names appear on
practically every concert.

But for the *majority* of professional players in New York, they are
no more enamored of seeing cents numbers all over the pages than they
are of Sims notation, which I *suppose* can seem pretty weird to the
uninitiated...

Joseph

In a message dated 10/9/2002 9:21:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, jpehrson@rcn.com writes:

> ***Well, despite what Johnny sometimes "professes" there is no
> specific *cents school* in New York any more than anyplace else, that
> is aside from the rather limited number of AFMM instrumentalists that
> Johnny has worked with over and over.

Alas, Joseph, you are wrong here. The Juilliard teaches cents, as I suppose does other conservatories. Cents is built in to the electronic tuners that have long replaced tuning forks. There is no "limited" number of AFMM instrumentlists. There is only the virtue of working with the very best players over an extensive length of time. Once again, I have produced large microtonal pieces over and again, which should make it self-evident that a large body of NYC players can play microtonally in diverse systems. And if one of my microtonal players said no to Joseph, they simply didn't want to do his gig. Since players are my background, I feel this rather securely.

The same names appear on
> practically every concert.> But for the *majority* of professional players in New York, they are > no more enamored of seeing cents numbers all over the pages than they > are of Sims notation, which I *suppose* can seem pretty weird to the
> uninitiated...
>
> Joseph
>
If Joseph had tried using cents, even once, he might have a better pool for understanding what I am professing. Two cellists is nothing regarding statistics, especially if one is a recognized microtonal player. Maybe you should try Ted Mook? My last orchestra concerts have had string players playing just, Werckmeister, extended Pythagorean, quartertones, polymicrotonality (as in my works), and others.

And yes, I find the unusual symbols off putting. I suspect this has more to do with a musican's aversion to learning a new microtonal piece than actually placing one's fingers on a fretless fingerboard.

best, Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39393.html#39431

> >
> If Joseph had tried using cents, even once, he might have a better
pool for understanding what I am professing. Two cellists is nothing
regarding statistics, especially if one is a recognized microtonal
player. Maybe you should try Ted Mook?

***Hi Johnny...

Well, regrettably, he was the first cellist to decline! :) Seriously!

My last orchestra concerts have had string players playing just,
Werckmeister, extended Pythagorean, quartertones, polymicrotonality
(as in my works), and others.
>
> And yes, I find the unusual symbols off putting. I suspect this
has more to do with a musican's aversion to learning a new microtonal
piece than actually placing one's fingers on a fretless fingerboard.
>

***OK... This is something to think about. I suppose I could go
through a piece and write in 17 cents and 33 cents up and down all
over the place. I wonder if it would make a difference?? It
*shouldn't* really, but I know how players look at pieces... one
glance, it looks "weird" and then the simple answer *no* (it's
shorter than *yes...*)

I wonder if Ezra Sims has really had so much of a problem with this.
After all, it *is* his system I'm using!

Well, when you get back, Johnny, perhaps you will have suggestions,
since I was a little depressed about this today (maybe a bit "cranky"
about it, too...) Hopefully, David Eggar... we'll keep working on it.

Thanks! Enjoy Canada.

Joseph

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> If Joseph had tried using cents, even once, he might have a better pool for understanding what I am professing. Two cellists is nothing regarding statistics, especially if one is a recognized microtonal player. Maybe you should try Ted Mook? My last orchestra concerts have had string players playing just, Werckmeister, extended Pythagorean, quartertones, polymicrotonality (as in my works), and others.

Could someone upload a scan of a page of a score with cents written in?

--- In tuning@y..., "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39393.html#39434

> --- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
> > If Joseph had tried using cents, even once, he might have a
better pool for understanding what I am professing. Two cellists is
nothing regarding statistics, especially if one is a recognized
microtonal player. Maybe you should try Ted Mook? My last orchestra
concerts have had string players playing just, Werckmeister, extended
Pythagorean, quartertones, polymicrotonality (as in my works), and
others.
>
> Could someone upload a scan of a page of a score with cents written
in?

***I'll try to put a page of the viola piece up, which is in the
beloved *cents* notation.

However, I got a cranky "can you *really* hear 18 cents?" - type
reaction from the supposedly professional violist. "I can't hear
that, can *you*??" [Naaah, naaah] (She plays with the American Ballet
Theatre...)

J. Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_39393.html#39440

> --- In tuning@y..., "Gene Ward Smith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_39393.html#39434
>
> > --- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> >
> > > If Joseph had tried using cents, even once, he might have a
> better pool for understanding what I am professing. Two cellists
is
> nothing regarding statistics, especially if one is a recognized
> microtonal player. Maybe you should try Ted Mook? My last
orchestra
> concerts have had string players playing just, Werckmeister,
extended
> Pythagorean, quartertones, polymicrotonality (as in my works), and
> others.
> >
> > Could someone upload a scan of a page of a score with cents
written
> in?
>
> ***I'll try to put a page of the viola piece up, which is in the
> beloved *cents* notation.
>
> However, I got a cranky "can you *really* hear 18 cents?" - type
> reaction from the supposedly professional violist. "I can't hear
> that, can *you*??" [Naaah, naaah] (She plays with the American
Ballet
> Theatre...)
>
> J. Pehrson

***Oh, I should hasten to add that she also played a *conventional*
piece miserably, and got bad reviews all around. Nice choice on *my*
part, obviously...

JP

Dear Joseph,

For viola, try Anastasia Solberg, Ron Lawrence, Drew Tretick, Kenneth Edwards, Toby (formerly of FLUX Quartet), and there are others (when I get back after the weekend).

18 cents is in question? Sheesh. best, Johnny