Ear disturbance with new scales

Does anyone suffer the following ear disturbance:

1. Turn on radio or tape or CD, and 12 ET music comes out, whilst driving
home from work

2. Go to instrument tuned !=12ET (19, Just, whatever)

3. Play chord or melodic shape

4. Feel disoriented, almost vertigo like sensation.

The same happens in reverse - if I've been composing in some other tuning
system, and I sit at my 12ET approx tuned piano and try to play, dizziness
again.

sometimes it goes away, but often I get so disoriented that I can't
continue with what I'm doing. My ear adapts to what is heard first and can
only be reset after an hour or so of silence.

I wondered if others on this group have similar experiences, and how some
cope with switching from one tuning to another.

Mark

--- In tuning@y..., "Mark Gould" <mark.gould@a...> wrote:
> Does anyone suffer the following ear disturbance:
>
> 1. Turn on radio or tape or CD, and 12 ET music comes out, whilst
driving
> home from work
>
> 2. Go to instrument tuned !=12ET (19, Just, whatever)
>
> 3. Play chord or melodic shape
>
> 4. Feel disoriented, almost vertigo like sensation.
>
> The same happens in reverse - if I've been composing in some other
tuning
> system, and I sit at my 12ET approx tuned piano and try to play,
dizziness
> again.

absolutely -- i've both of these sensations numerous times.

> sometimes it goes away, but often I get so disoriented that I can't
> continue with what I'm doing. My ear adapts to what is heard first
and can
> only be reset after an hour or so of silence.
>
> I wondered if others on this group have similar experiences, and
how some
> cope with switching from one tuning to another.

your stomach gets used to it after a while :) seriously, keep up the
playing and listening -- immersing yourself in some even more unusual
tuning systems may help you be better able to appreciate all
intervals and scales in their own right.

let me ask you this: do you own a copy of blackwood's microtonal
etudes? or anything similar? how often have you listened to it? it
certainly makes most people seasick at first, but after enough
exposure, each tuning system reveals its own character, each piece
can be heard in terms of its own merits or lack thereof . . . at
least this has been my experience . . .

Hi Mark,

I've been following the discussions in here with interest for quite some time but haven't really posted here before. Thanks for all the discussion that I've been lurking around reading.

>I wondered if others on this group have similar experiences, and how >some >cope with switching from one tuning to another.
>
>Mark

Yes, it happens to me all the time, having been cursed with close to perfect pitch, and so ingrained on equal tempered piano most of my life that other tuning systems are difficult for me to appreciate appropriately, as I try to fit it into my perspective, and yes, it can cause vertigo type symptoms, funny enough that is where balance is centered, in the ears. So it isn't that odd, really. I've found that I can have a "movable Do" with my perfect pitch, so that I don't go totally nuts if something is a touch flat or sharp, fortunately.

Over the years I've played a lot of synthesizer stretching and compressing from the standard 1 volt per octave into other tuning systems, but since most synths have standard piano type of keyboards it is hard to visualize the tunings on that kind of keyboard, and I've found that my mind sees a "C" and wants it to be a "C" in every octave, rather than an F# or whatever it turns out to be in that particular scale (in this case a equal tempered quarter-tone scale) and my mind tries to put things into traditional tunings and messes me up. Trying to get it fine tuned and repeat that tuning again is another matter entirely. As a largely commercial musician, (I sometimes call myself a "prostitute musician", playing anything that pays), few audiences appreciate other tuning systems, usually, so seldom go there in live performances.

While I still like to consider other scales, I've pretty much kept to traditional 12 tone equal tempered scales being a keyboard oriented player. Now if I was good on a sitar or something that had tunable frets or whatever, then I might be much more encouraged to fiddle with other tunings and scales, something that doesn't want to force me into 12 tone equal tempered thinking that the "black and whites" tend to do.

Bonnie *:>

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--- In tuning@y..., "Mark Gould" <mark.gould@a...> wrote:
> Does anyone suffer the following ear disturbance:
>
> 1. Turn on radio or tape or CD, and 12 ET music comes out, whilst
driving
> home from work
>
> 2. Go to instrument tuned !=12ET (19, Just, whatever)
>
> 3. Play chord or melodic shape
>
> 4. Feel disoriented, almost vertigo like sensation.
>
> The same happens in reverse - if I've been composing in some other
tuning
> system, and I sit at my 12ET approx tuned piano and try to play,
dizziness
> again.
>
> sometimes it goes away, but often I get so disoriented that I can't
> continue with what I'm doing. My ear adapts to what is heard first
and can
> only be reset after an hour or so of silence.
>
> I wondered if others on this group have similar experiences, and
how some
> cope with switching from one tuning to another.
>
> Mark

I have experienced disorientation in going from one tuning system to
another on only one occasion: using meantone temperament for several
weeks and going back to 12-ET, as I described in my posting #39142.
Even when I first used the instant-tuning-change capabilities of the
Scalatron in 1975 to jump back and forth among all sorts of tunings,
I never experienced any disorientation (even though I have absolute
pitch), so I guess my initial experience somehow made me immune to
any subsequent tuning disorientation sickness.

That, plus the fact that I had previously learned to allow my sense
of absolute pitch to be somewhat "adjustable" in the downward
direction, for times where I had to play a piano that was a little
low in pitch. But if I try to play a keyboard that's anything close
to a half-step down, I'm completely disoriented and start going for
the "wrong" keys.

So I think after a time you'll get over it.

--George

wallyesterpaulrus wrote:

> --- In tuning@y..., "Mark Gould" <mark.gould@a...> wrote:
> > Does anyone suffer the following ear disturbance:
> >
> 1. Turn on radio or tape or CD, and 12 ET music comes out, whilst
> driving
> home from work
>
> 2. Go to instrument tuned !=12ET (19, Just, whatever)
>
> 3. Play chord or melodic shape
>
> 4. Feel disoriented, almost vertigo like sensation.
>
> The same happens in reverse - if I've been composing in some other
> tuning
> system, and I sit at my 12ET approx tuned piano and try to play,
> dizziness
> again.

One of the players in my microtonal ensemble always asks if the zither he usually plays is "in
tune". It usually takes about half an hour to put him through "rehab". Poor fellow.

Regards

--- In tuning@y..., "wallyesterpaulrus" <wallyesterpaulrus@y...>

/tuning/topicId_39208.html#39228

>
> let me ask you this: do you own a copy of blackwood's microtonal
> etudes? or anything similar? how often have you listened to it? it
> certainly makes most people seasick at first, but after enough
> exposure, each tuning system reveals its own character, each piece
> can be heard in terms of its own merits or lack thereof . . . at
> least this has been my experience . . .

***I would also like to add the phenominon of the "shrinking
interval..." After listening to 1/6th tones for a while, for
example, quartertones start sounding like *semitones!*

This practice can't help but add to intonational acuity, particularly
for string players...

J. Pehrson