Joe Monzo's mind-maze

Dear Tuners,

For some reason I have been trying like a crazed maniac to email Joe Monzo,
and he never seems to reply to my emails.

First, before I get to the main subject of this post about HOW Joe displays
his information (on his website, that is....), I wanted to extend a severe,
and heart-felt apology to those that I have offended by making comments that
were against religion, and those with religious beliefes.

In all honesty what really put me off religion was working in 1994 for a
bunch of phonie Christians at a Fabrics Retailer called Lewis's, and the
bosses second in command ripped into me, and gave me a hard time.

This is a long time ago, but these CHristians were the most un-Christian
like CHristians I have ever come across.

They gave me a bad taste of those with religious beliefes.

I believe in God now, in an open accelerateing open Universe at eternity
A.D. mathiverse=Polyverse=Universe.

I can, and will explain.

Email me privately for this.

The main point of this email is to suggest, nae PLEAD with Mr.Joe Monzo to
do an ADDITION to his website, and this would have a series of sequential
step by step definitions and instructions, and little
"pop-quizzes/exams/tests" spread throughout, like raisins in a bun.

Look, I really like Joe Monzo's site, but it is AMAZINGLY irritateing to try
and, well, know where to start.

I REALLY want to understand his work, his mind, and his information, but....

The lay out is like a looping, tangled, maze, analogous to a dictionary with
one line definitions, which really arn't that complete, but just give cross
references to other definitions.

His website is MASSIVELY PARALLEL, and should be more sequential, with
quizzes, even if they are multi-choice, in my humble opinion...

So, trying to learn information from Joe Monzo's site is like shooting an
arrow at random into a forest and trying to hit a pineapple tree/herb.

Joe, YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS WEBSITE....!!!

I an nearly on the brink of insanity with frustration, and eagerness to
learn more about Joe's BRILLIANT work.

But it is JUST SO HARD TO FIND STUFF, and to know where to start.

He might, first, explain just intonation, then the interval names, its
relation to equal temperaments, this fundamental theorem of arithmetic, then
step-by-step instructions SHOWING HOW TO COINSTRUCT A 2D LATTICE.

Joe, YOU HAVE TO HELP ME.

I have gone so mad with intrigue, that I have come full circle and gone sane
again.

Can't let this happen.

Whilst it is not my intention to put Joe down, I just really find it
irritateing to try and find out what it all means as a whole.

Perhaps its just me???.....

Any advice Joe/Tuners?

---Sarn "Polyverse Philosopher" Ursell.

Didn't he write a book? I think you can get a copy of him. Perhaps it's
more "sequential" and step-by-step.

Books, by their nature, are more apt to be sequential.

Web, by its nature, is extremely suited to be parallel.

Thus, Monz's web site, is a great reference. perhaps not such a great
intro.

>
> I REALLY want to understand his work, his mind, and his information, but....
>
> The lay out is like a looping, tangled, maze, analogous to a dictionary with
> one line definitions, which really arn't that complete, but just give cross
> references to other definitions.
>
> His website is MASSIVELY PARALLEL, and should be more sequential, with
> quizzes, even if they are multi-choice, in my humble opinion...

I never tried to use Monz's web site as an introduction, only as a
reference work. The dictionary of tuning terms is a very nice
starting point. But I sometimes have the impression that some
articles on the site are only accessible from links in the
dictionary, so you only know about the existence op these articles by
reading the definitions.
I should like to have an overview of those articles, maybe a sitemap
could be a good idea ?

Bart

re:
/tuning/topicId_38749.html#38749
/tuning/topicId_38749.html#38750
/tuning/topicId_38749.html#38751

dear Sarn,

thanks for both the compliments and criticisms. i did
read your emails, but unfortunately didn't take the time
to respond, and for that i aplogize. the fact is that
i've been taking a real vacation from tuning work for
several months. i find myself being slowly but surely
sucked back into it lately, and of course eventually at
some point i'll once again become as obsessed with it
as i have been for the past 18 years ... but i'm not
in any hurry right now, just enjoying other things life
has to offer.

(interestingly, there are only about four or five webpages
in the world which address Sumerian tuning to any real
depth, and the author of one of them happens to also live
right here in San Diego, and we got together for the first
time and talked shop just yesterday.)

also, you've been writing to me at the Juno address that's
plastered all over my website, but which by choice i
reserve for newbies and by default intruders reserve for
spam/junkmail ... so i only read it every week or so,
and i actually do get a few real messages that i have to
watch carefully to catch as i'm pressing the "Delete"
button over and over again. those who write me regularly
and/or know me from the tuning lists -- and this includes
you, Sarn! -- should be writing to me at my regular email:
monz(AT)attglobal.net

i felt your frustration, both in your private emails to me
and in the tuning list post i'm replying to now, but getting
that heavily involved in my website again is not something
i'm likely to do for a little while yet. except for a few
little updates to existing pages, the only thing new i've
added is a page about my latest obsession:

http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/radian/mybike.htm

meantime ...

Christopher, thanks for the plug for my book. and Sarn,
i think he's giving good advice here. i haven't done
any new editing of my book since i began my website back
in 1998, so it's quite messy ... but it *is* much more
sequential than the webpages, first introducing the
prime-factor notation and some of my theories/ideas about
prime numbers (but not as much as what's in the Dictionary,
as i formulated those ideas later), then taking the reader
on a journey thru historical tuning systems, sorted first
by prime-limit, then, within each prime-limit, by chronology.

unfortunately all of my work on Sumerian and Babylonian
tuning was only done two years ago, so there's hardly any
of that in the book. so the chronologies mostly begin
with ancient Greek ideas about tuning. also, i haven't
included any of my work on Arabic and other Islamicate
tunings, and there's not much there about China, and
nothing about African, Native American, or other Asian
music. so the bias pretty heavily favors the "standard"
Euro-centric view of things, except for my inclusion of
later American developments like the blues, jazz, and rock.

and finally, Bart, thanks for the suggestion of creating
a site map. i don't particularly know how to do that,
unless it's an obvious simple thing (so the point is that
the only website i've ever designed is my own and the
umbrella Sonic Arts site under which mine lives). but
eventually when i get back to working on the site in earnest,
i'll make an attempt at that. it's something Joe Pehrson
has been begging me to provide for at least 3 years.

i realize that my site is a massive labyrinth of tangled
tuning info (and some other stuff) ... but hey, it's a
pretty accurate reflection of my mind! ;-)

(... and, for that matter, my life as well ...)

now leave me alone! ... i'm still on vacation ...

(and as paul likes to say, i still love all of you.)

-monz

--- In tuning@y..., Sarn Richard Ursell <thcdelta@i...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38749.html#38749

> .
>
> The main point of this email is to suggest, nae PLEAD with Mr.Joe
Monzo to
> do an ADDITION to his website, and this would have a series of
sequential
> step by step definitions and instructions, and little
> "pop-quizzes/exams/tests" spread throughout, like raisins in a bun.
>
> Look, I really like Joe Monzo's site, but it is AMAZINGLY
irritateing to try
> and, well, know where to start.
>
>>
> Whilst it is not my intention to put Joe down, I just really find it
> irritateing to try and find out what it all means as a whole.
>
> Perhaps its just me???.....
>
> Any advice Joe/Tuners?
>
>
***Hello Sarn!

I'm assuming you've gone through all of Kyle Gann's stuff on the web,
yes?? Thats set out more in an "educational" manner, but it may be
too rudimentary for you. Just search for Kyle Gann on the Internet.

That's just a suggestion...

Joe Tuner (Pehrson)

--- In tuning@y..., "bps1572ya" <bps1572@m...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38749.html#38751

> I never tried to use Monz's web site as an introduction, only as a
> reference work. The dictionary of tuning terms is a very nice
> starting point. But I sometimes have the impression that some
> articles on the site are only accessible from links in the
> dictionary, so you only know about the existence op these articles
by
> reading the definitions.
> I should like to have an overview of those articles, maybe a
sitemap
> could be a good idea ?
>
> Bart

***Hello Bart!

This discussion has gone on for a long time, since Joe Monzo has a
lot of "hidden treasure" on his site that is only accessible in
labyrinthine ways...

However, of late he has been trying to index his pages better.

It's one of the best tuning resources on the Internet, of course, and
very well worth the time he has generously put into it. (I believe
*much* of his book is online as well, accessible through his webpages)

Joe Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38749.html#38753

>>
> and finally, Bart, thanks for the suggestion of creating
> a site map. i don't particularly know how to do that,
> unless it's an obvious simple thing (so the point is that
> the only website i've ever designed is my own and the
> umbrella Sonic Arts site under which mine lives). but
> eventually when i get back to working on the site in earnest,
> i'll make an attempt at that. it's something Joe Pehrson
> has been begging me to provide for at least 3 years.

***Hello "biker-babe" Monz!

Well, I thought it was only *two* years! :) Time flies when we
cycle our motors!

Probably just a huge bunch of *links* would do the job. You could
probably put them in a *table* or some such.

Ride carefully, Monz! and keep your bike on the sidewalk...

Joe Pehrson

hi Joe,

> From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@rcn.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 7:01 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Joe Monzo's mind-maze
>
>
> > [a site map for my website is] something Joe Pehrson
> > has been begging me to provide for at least 3 years.
>
>
> ***Hello "biker-babe" Monz!
>
> Well, I thought it was only *two* years! :) Time flies when we
> cycle our motors!

i thought i remember you asking me to give my website an
"index page" back in 1999, hence the "3 years". i could be wrong.

> Probably just a huge bunch of *links* would do the job. You could
> probably put them in a *table* or some such.

i've just thought of this, for those of you who are frustrated
at trying to find my "hidden" webpages: almost all of them are
listed chronologically in the "Articles and Essays" section of
my "List of Works" page:
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/worklist/worklist.htm

i know that's still not exactly what you're looking for,
but it should help ... it's the most complete list i have
anywhere, and the ones that are online are all links.

> Ride carefully, Monz!

always -- with one eye on the road itself (for potholes etc.),
and the other on the makeup artists, newspaper readers, and
"soccer moms" who don't see me while driving their cars and SUVs.

> and keep your bike on the sidewalk...

that's a joke, right, Joe? (i sure hope so...)

actually, when i'm on my *bicycle*, the environment for
cycling here in San Diego sucks so bad that i *do* frequently
ride that on the sidewalk! and i even think it's illegal
to do so, but hey ... i'd rather risk paying a fine than
risk getting hit by a car!

-monz

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38749.html#38769

>
> > Ride carefully, Monz!
>
>
> always -- with one eye on the road itself (for potholes etc.),
> and the other on the makeup artists, newspaper readers, and
> "soccer moms" who don't see me while driving their cars and SUVs.
>
>
> > and keep your bike on the sidewalk...
>
> that's a joke, right, Joe? (i sure hope so...)

***Yes
>

JP

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
...
> i've just thought of this, for those of you who are frustrated
> at trying to find my "hidden" webpages: almost all of them are
> listed chronologically in the "Articles and Essays" section of
> my "List of Works" page:
> http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/worklist/worklist.htm
>
...
> -monz

Well, maybe that is what is was looking for.
I can't remember to have seen that worklist page before.
When I have time I'll read some of the articles.

Bart Pauwels