New Berlioz & Cage titles from Cambridge U Press

Things have been a bit slow here and I thought some of you may find some of this interesting. - Joel

To be published during August 2002 by Cambridge University Press:

Berlioz's Orchestration Treatise: A Translation and Commentary (Hardback)
Berlioz, Edited by Hugh Macdonald
Series: Cambridge Musical Texts and Monographs
Provides both a new translation and detailed commentary on Berlioz's own practice as an orchestrator.
http://uk.cambridge.org/order/WebBook.asp?ISBN=0521239532

The Cambridge Companion to John Cage (Paperback)
Edited by David Nicholls
Series: Cambridge Companions to Music
Celebrates the richness and diversity of Cage's achievements, providing a rounded portrait of an influential composer.
http://uk.cambridge.org/order/WebBook.asp?ISBN=0521789680

Does any of this have anything to do with
tuning?

dB

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley
----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Rodrigues
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2002 5:03 PM
Subject: [tuning] New Berlioz & Cage titles from Cambridge U Press

Things have been a bit slow here and I thought some of you may find some of this interesting. - Joel

To be published during August 2002 by Cambridge University Press:

Berlioz's Orchestration Treatise: A Translation and Commentary (Hardback)
Berlioz, Edited by Hugh Macdonald
Series: Cambridge Musical Texts and Monographs
Provides both a new translation and detailed commentary on Berlioz's own practice as an orchestrator.
http://uk.cambridge.org/order/WebBook.asp?ISBN=0521239532

The Cambridge Companion to John Cage (Paperback)
Edited by David Nicholls
Series: Cambridge Companions to Music
Celebrates the richness and diversity of Cage's achievements, providing a rounded portrait of an influential composer.
http://uk.cambridge.org/order/WebBook.asp?ISBN=0521789680

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> Does any of this have anything to do with
> tuning?
>
> dB
>
At what point are we confusing our proto- and metacomposition? Vis
proto- or "meta"-tuning?
My training was to ask what system I was composing in, not whether or
why I would compose.
In that sense Berlioz and Cage seem extremely relevant to me, whether
or not.

pM

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Rodrigues" <joelrodrigues@mac.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 6:06 AM
Subject: [tuning] Re: New Berlioz & Cage titles from Cambridge U Press

>
> On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 07:18 , tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>
>
> > Does any of this have anything to do with tuning?
> >
> > dB
>
> Yes.

How? I know Cage wrote some pieces in meantone, but that's
about it.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

----- Original Message -----
From: "ambassadorbob" <ambassadorbob@yahoo.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> > Does any of this have anything to do with
> > tuning?
> >
> > dB
> >
> At what point are we confusing our proto- and metacomposition? Vis
> proto- or "meta"-tuning?
> My training was to ask what system I was composing in, not whether or
> why I would compose.
> In that sense Berlioz and Cage seem extremely relevant to me, whether
> or not.

I'm composer who uses JI as a tuning system. I'm not confused about this at
all.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., "ambassadorbob" <ambassadorbob@y...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38747.html#38752

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> > Does any of this have anything to do with
> > tuning?
> >
> > dB
> >
> At what point are we confusing our proto- and metacomposition?
Vis
> proto- or "meta"-tuning?
> My training was to ask what system I was composing in, not whether
or
> why I would compose.
> In that sense Berlioz and Cage seem extremely relevant to me,
whether
> or not.
>
> pM

***Well, certainly much of what Cage wrote or wrote about concerns
microtonality. That's bound to happen, given the fact that he gives
harmonic and inharmonic sounds equal "billing"!

J. Pehrson

----- Original Message -----
From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@rcn.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., "ambassadorbob" <ambassadorbob@y...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_38747.html#38752
>
> > --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> > > Does any of this have anything to do with
> > > tuning?
> > >
> > > dB
> > >
> > At what point are we confusing our proto- and metacomposition?
> Vis
> > proto- or "meta"-tuning?
> > My training was to ask what system I was composing in, not whether
> or
> > why I would compose.
> > In that sense Berlioz and Cage seem extremely relevant to me,
> whether
> > or not.
> >
> > pM
>
>
> ***Well, certainly much of what Cage wrote or wrote about concerns
> microtonality. That's bound to happen, given the fact that he gives
> harmonic and inharmonic sounds equal "billing"!

Point me towards text by Cage where he addresses this specific issue.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

In a message dated 8/7/02 8:37:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
davidbeardsley@biink.com writes:

> Point me towards text by Cage where he addresses this specific issue.
>
>
>
>

Actually there are many examples of John Cage using different equal
temperaments. None using meantone, David. Maybe you were thinking of
Ligetti? As to your question to Joseph, the discussion of Cage aggregates
was taken up by James Tenney in Musicworks. I believe even the Toy Piano
piece by Cage was considered as a microtonal coloring, post preparations for
piano.

You do know of Cage's "Ten" in 74tET?

Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38747.html#38771

> >
> > ***Well, certainly much of what Cage wrote or wrote about
concerns
> > microtonality. That's bound to happen, given the fact that he
gives
> > harmonic and inharmonic sounds equal "billing"!
>
> Point me towards text by Cage where he addresses this specific
issue.
>

***Probably just about every sentence in his seminal work _Silence_

JP

On Wednesday, August 7, 2002, at 08:51 , tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 15:04:42 -0400
> From: David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joel Rodrigues" <joelrodrigues@mac.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 6:06 AM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: New Berlioz & Cage titles from Cambridge U Press
>
>
>>
>> On Sunday, August 4, 2002, at 07:18 , tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>>
>>> David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>
>>
>>> Does any of this have anything to do with tuning?
>>>
>>> dB
>>
>> Yes.
>
> How? I know Cage wrote some pieces in meantone, but that's
> about it.

Hi David, I think Pete put it quite well, but still let me put it this way:

> Does any of this have anything to do with tuning?

Yes.

Are these titles relevant to anyone studying / practising microtonality ?

Yes, and potentially to any musician.

Manuel's "List of microtonal music on CD" has 4 entries for Cage.
<http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/discs.html>

Berlioz and Cage have been mentioned a few times here before, Berlioz in discussions about orchestration and other things.

In TD 2146, July 10 2002 Johnny Reinhard mentions Berlioz' thoughts on a JI related matter. Berlioz also appears earlier in the list's archives in connection with meantone related matters and his orchestration text.

And one could take a more holistic approach and say *everything* is about tuning !

Cheers,
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: Afmmjr@aol.com

>>In a message dated 8/7/02 8:37:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
davidbeardsley@biink.com writes:
>>Point me towards text by Cage where he addresses this specific issue.
^^^^

Text?

>Actually there are many examples of John Cage using different
>equal temperaments.
>None using meantone, David. Maybe you were thinking of Ligetti?

Feldman.

>As to your question to Joseph, the discussion of Cage aggregates
>was taken up by James Tenney in Musicworks. I believe even the
>Toy Piano piece by Cage was considered as a microtonal coloring,
>post preparations for piano.

>You do know of Cage's "Ten" in 74tET?

Forgot about that one.

dB

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

----- Original Message -----
From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@rcn.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> > Point me towards text by Cage where he addresses this specific
> issue.

> ***Probably just about every sentence in his seminal work _Silence_

We're talking 'bout microtones not mycology JP!

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Rodrigues" <joelrodrigues@mac.com>

I wrote:

> > How? I know Cage wrote some pieces in meantone, but that's
> > about it.
>
> Hi David, I think Pete put it quite well, but still let me put
> it this way:

Pete? Pete who? Pete???

> > Does any of this have anything to do with tuning?
>
> Yes.
>
> Are these titles relevant to anyone studying / practising
> microtonality ?
>
> Yes, and potentially to any musician.
>
>
> Manuel's "List of microtonal music on CD" has 4 entries for Cage.
> <http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/discs.html>

So does the book "The Cambridge Companion to John Cage"
specifically address any of Cage's contributions to microtonal pratice?
The web page doesn't mention anything besides a reference to the prepared
piano.

> Berlioz and Cage have been mentioned a few times here before,
> Berlioz in discussions about orchestration and other things.

So does the book "Berlioz's Orchestration Treatise: A Translation and
Commentary"
specifically address any of Berlioz's contributions to microtonality?
The web page doesn't mention anything.

> In TD 2146, July 10 2002 Johnny Reinhard mentions Berlioz'
> thoughts on a JI related matter. Berlioz also appears earlier in
> the list's archives in connection with meantone related matters
> and his orchestration text.

He was writing about Berlioz's Memoirs.

> And one could take a more holistic approach and say *everything*
> is about tuning !

Well...everything is about being IN tune, because I'm a JI sort of guy.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38747.html#38780

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...>
>
>
>
> > --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> > > Point me towards text by Cage where he addresses this specific
> > issue.
>
> > ***Probably just about every sentence in his seminal work
_Silence_
>
> We're talking 'bout microtones not mycology JP!
>

Haha! Well, he *did* get deathly sick on those once. Glad he lived
through it!

I was more thinking of his concept of "noise as music" obviously, and
in my head was a nice inharmonic oscillograph with the peaks all over
the place.

I would guess that would be microtonal, unless we want to define it
as discrete scale steps. If so, I guess it would be restricted to
some of the Cage pieces that Johnny R. points out...

Joe

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38747.html#38781

>>
> > And one could take a more holistic approach and say *everything*
> > is about tuning !
>
> Well...everything is about being IN tune, because I'm a JI sort of
guy.
>

***I'm assuming you've *heard* a toy piano, David?? The one I own
was given to me by Wendy Mae Chambers, the doyenne of the instrument.

The tuning is "funky" at best...

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@rcn.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_38747.html#38780
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...>
> >
> >
> >
> > > --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> > > > Point me towards text by Cage where he addresses this specific
> > > issue.
> >
> > > ***Probably just about every sentence in his seminal work
> _Silence_
> >
> > We're talking 'bout microtones not mycology JP!
> >
>
> Haha! Well, he *did* get deathly sick on those once. Glad he lived
> through it!
>
> I was more thinking of his concept of "noise as music" obviously, and
> in my head was a nice inharmonic oscillograph with the peaks all over
> the place.
>
> I would guess that would be microtonal, unless we want to define it
> as discrete scale steps. If so, I guess it would be restricted to
> some of the Cage pieces that Johnny R. points out...

Right. It wasn't Cages use of tuning systems, but the reference
to a book that that wasn't obviously about any tuning!

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

----- Original Message -----
From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@rcn.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_38747.html#38781
>
> >>
> > > And one could take a more holistic approach and say *everything*
> > > is about tuning !
> >
> > Well...everything is about being IN tune, because I'm a JI sort of
> guy.
> >
>
> ***I'm assuming you've *heard* a toy piano, David??

Of course!

> The one I own
> was given to me by Wendy Mae Chambers, the doyenne of the instrument.
>
> The tuning is "funky" at best...

I've heard Margaret Leng Tang do her toy piano bit at Bang
On a Can a few years ago and Kyle Gann at Experimental Intermedia
even more years ago.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley