Some 72 et pumps

These are comma pump sequences in analogy to the classic meantone pump based on 80/81, which set up a dominant to tonic cadence. I feel these sequences are more dynmaic sounding and give more of a sense of movement than strict JI sequences which set up the same cadence, but Paul thinks I am all wet. In any case, here they are, for 72-et composers to use (in all their varied forms, these are just examples) if they so choose.

A 224/225 pump

[0, 23, 42, 58]
[0, 16, 35, 58]
[-7, 16, 35, 51]
[-7, 9, 28, 51]
[-7, 12, 28, 42]
[0, 23, 42, 58]

A 1024/1029 pump

[0, 23, 42, 58]
[0, 23, 37, 53]
[18, 37, 53, 67]
[14, 37, 51, 67]
[9, 32, 51, 67]
[9, 28, 51, 65]
[12, 28, 42, 65]
[0, 23, 42, 58]

A 2400/2401 pump

[0, 23, 42, 58]
[5, 28, 42, 58]
[5, 28, 47, 63]
[10, 33, 47, 63]
[10, 33, 52, 68]
[15, 38, 52, 68]
[15, 31, 45, 68]
[12, 31, 42, 68]
[12, 28, 42, 65]
[0, 23, 42, 58]

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:

In case anyone was wondering, the notes of the minimal scale for the
224/225 pump, in secor-chain format, are

[-9, -8, -7, -3, -2, -1, 0, 4, 5, 6, 12]

so it nearly fits into Blackjack; can a version of it be done in Blackjack?

My 1024/1029 pump uses the notes

[-18, -16, -13, -11, -9, -7, -5, -3, -2, -1, 0, 2, 4, 6, 12]

So it fits, just barely, into Canasta.

The 2400/2401 pump uses the notes

[-7, -2, -1, 0, 4, 6, 9, 11, 12, 15, 17, 20, 22, 25, 26, 27, 28, 33]

It fits, just barely, into Studloco, if that is what we are calling the 41-note Miracle MOS these days.

In-Reply-To: <afpjpf+a6d9@eGroups.com>
genewardsmith wrote:

> In case anyone was wondering, the notes of the minimal scale for the
> 224/225 pump, in secor-chain format, are
>
> [-9, -8, -7, -3, -2, -1, 0, 4, 5, 6, 12]
>
> so it nearly fits into Blackjack; can a version of it be done in
> Blackjack?

Probably. What are the constraints?

Graham

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> These are comma pump sequences in analogy to the classic meantone
>pump based on 80/81, which set up a dominant to tonic cadence. I
>feel these sequences are more dynmaic sounding and give more of a
>sense of movement than strict JI sequences which set up the same
>cadence, but Paul thinks I am all wet.

we must be misunderstanding each other.

>In any case, here they are, for 72-et composers to use (in all their
>varied forms, these are just examples) if they so choose.

since you probably missed it, one of the earliest blackjack examples
which got joseph really excited about it was graham breed's 2401:2400
pump (yes, it's all in blackjack), arranged by joe monzo. you can
look at it and listen to it about 5/6 of the way down this page:

http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/blackjack/blackjack.htm#pump

--- In tuning@y..., graham@m... wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <afpjpf+a6d9@e...>
> genewardsmith wrote:
>
> > In case anyone was wondering, the notes of the minimal scale for the
> > 224/225 pump, in secor-chain format, are
> >
> > [-9, -8, -7, -3, -2, -1, 0, 4, 5, 6, 12]
> >
> > so it nearly fits into Blackjack; can a version of it be done in
> > Blackjack?
>
> Probably. What are the constraints?

(1) All chords are major tetrads, minor tetrads, subminor tetrads, or supermajor tetrads

(2) The pentultimate chord is the dominant major tetrad

(3) All chords leading up to the penultimate chord have an interval in common

(4) The starting and ending points are the tonic major tetrads, but in JI terms the starting point is 225/224 above, and the entire sequence must make sense as a JI sequence modulating down by 224/225

(5) No more chords should be used than the number I used, namely six

--- In tuning@y..., "emotionaljourney22" <paul@s...> wrote:

> since you probably missed it, one of the earliest blackjack examples
> which got joseph really excited about it was graham breed's 2401:2400
> pump (yes, it's all in blackjack), arranged by joe monzo. you can
> look at it and listen to it about 5/6 of the way down this page:
>
> http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/blackjack/blackjack.htm#pump

This page doesn't give the actual chord progression--what are the chords?

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., graham@m... wrote:
> > In-Reply-To: <afpjpf+a6d9@e...>
> > genewardsmith wrote:
> >
> > > In case anyone was wondering, the notes of the minimal scale
for the
> > > 224/225 pump, in secor-chain format, are
> > >
> > > [-9, -8, -7, -3, -2, -1, 0, 4, 5, 6, 12]
> > >
> > > so it nearly fits into Blackjack; can a version of it be done
in
> > > Blackjack?
> >
> > Probably. What are the constraints?
>
>
> (1) All chords are major tetrads, minor tetrads, subminor tetrads,
or supermajor tetrads
>
> (2) The pentultimate chord is the dominant major tetrad
>
> (3) All chords leading up to the penultimate chord have an interval
in common
>
> (4) The starting and ending points are the tonic major tetrads, but
in JI terms the starting point is 225/224 above, and the entire
sequence must make sense as a JI sequence modulating down by 224/225
>
> (5) No more chords should be used than the number I used, namely six

i bet even joseph could do this, by just looking at the blackjack
lattice . . .

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "emotionaljourney22" <paul@s...> wrote:
>
> > since you probably missed it, one of the earliest blackjack
examples
> > which got joseph really excited about it was graham breed's
2401:2400
> > pump (yes, it's all in blackjack), arranged by joe monzo. you can
> > look at it and listen to it about 5/6 of the way down this page:
> >
> > http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/blackjack/blackjack.htm#pump
>
> This page doesn't give the actual chord progression

sure it does -- in semitones. the chart is nice as it shows the voice
leading clearly.

--- In tuning@y..., "emotionaljourney22" <paul@s...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38350.html#38377

> --- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., "emotionaljourney22" <paul@s...> wrote:
> >
> > > since you probably missed it, one of the earliest blackjack
> examples
> > > which got joseph really excited about it was graham breed's
> 2401:2400
> > > pump (yes, it's all in blackjack), arranged by joe monzo. you
can
> > > look at it and listen to it about 5/6 of the way down this page:
> > >
> > >
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/blackjack/blackjack.htm#pump
> >
> > This page doesn't give the actual chord progression
>
> sure it does -- in semitones. the chart is nice as it shows the
voice
> leading clearly.

***It's also great that Monz has it set up so that one can *hear* the
progression just by "clicking on" the graphic! I find this
progression *still* incredibly exciting!

Joseph

In-Reply-To: <afqr1m+qkrp@eGroups.com>
genewardsmith wrote:

> (1) All chords are major tetrads, minor tetrads, subminor tetrads, or
> supermajor tetrads
>
> (2) The pentultimate chord is the dominant major tetrad
>
> (3) All chords leading up to the penultimate chord have an interval in
> common
>
> (4) The starting and ending points are the tonic major tetrads, but in
> JI terms the starting point is 225/224 above, and the entire sequence
> must make sense as a JI sequence modulating down by 224/225
>
> (5) No more chords should be used than the number I used, namely six

I think your 225:224 pump still passes all these if you remove the third
to last chord, and it's in blackjack. I couldn't make any small changes
without breaking other things, like always having *two* intervals in
common up to the penultimate chord, not having notes moving melodically by
quommas and the penultimate chord always moving the the ultimate chord by
a descending perfect fifth. So I wondered what else you had in mind.

Anyway, try this in 72+ notation (should be the agreed standard):

Ab^ C Eb^ F#v
Ab^ Bv D F#v
G Bbv D F<
G Bb^ D G
G Bb^ C#v Eb^
Ab^ C Eb^ F#v

and in decimal (not the standard blackjack):

8^ 1^ 4 6^
8^ 0^ 3 6^
7^ 0^ 3 5^
7^ 0v 3 7^
7^ 0v 2 4
8^ 1^ 4 6^

which should translate to 72-equal steps as

-14 9 28 44
-14 2 21 44
-21 2 21 37
-21 -2 21 51
-21 -2 14 28
-14 9 28 44

Graham