shot down on Sibelius site

I'm constantly getting *shot down* on the Sibelius forum site when I
mention the desire for anything other than quartertones.

Does this really mean that composers, in general, are not *ready* for
microtonality, except for quartertones????

Joseph

----- Original Message -----
From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@rcn.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 7:20 PM
Subject: [tuning] shot down on Sibelius site

> I'm constantly getting *shot down* on the Sibelius forum site when I
> mention the desire for anything other than quartertones.
>
> Does this really mean that composers, in general, are not *ready* for
> microtonality, except for quartertones????

Yes.

Where is this forum?

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38318.html#38319

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...>
> To: <tuning@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 7:20 PM
> Subject: [tuning] shot down on Sibelius site
>
>
> > I'm constantly getting *shot down* on the Sibelius forum site
when I
> > mention the desire for anything other than quartertones.
> >
> > Does this really mean that composers, in general, are not *ready*
for
> > microtonality, except for quartertones????
>
> Yes.
>
> Where is this forum?
>
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
> * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

***Hi David!

Unfortunately, you have to be a *registered* user. If you are, let
me know and I'll direct you to it...

Joe

Joe,

--- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> Does this really mean that composers, in general, are not *ready*
> for microtonality, except for quartertones????

Use your head: do the registered users of Sibelius that happen to also utilize the Sibelius forum constitute enough composers to ask that question? Here are some quick thoughts:

1. Most human beings are incredibly square and conservative, unwilling to try change.

2. People who do a lot of notation are probably more schooled and more academic, and less likely to be adventurous (and probably think there isn't anything wrong at all with 12tet).

3. Most importantly: why care about what other composers are doing?

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38318.html#38321

>
> 3. Most importantly: why care about what other composers are doing?
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Because, it essentially affects the implementation of the
software. If it appears I'm the only *isolated* lone "wolf" asking
for these things, the company is uninterested in including these
features....

Joe

Joe,

--- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> ***Because, it essentially affects the implementation of the
> software. If it appears I'm the only *isolated* lone "wolf" asking
> for these things, the company is uninterested in including these
> features....

Ah, yes, that's a very good point. Maybe I should have sussed out that you were actually wondering how many composers were actually both writing micro music *as well as* using software notation programs.

Probably a veeeeeery small number, would be my guess. Best of luck to you, though, in gettin this done. Have you been writing to the company itself as well?

Cheers,
Jon

----- Original Message -----
From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@rcn.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_38318.html#38319
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...>
>
> >
> > > I'm constantly getting *shot down* on the Sibelius forum site
> when I
> > > mention the desire for anything other than quartertones.
> > >
> > > Does this really mean that composers, in general, are not *ready*
> for
> > > microtonality, except for quartertones????
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Where is this forum?

> ***Hi David!
>
> Unfortunately, you have to be a *registered* user. If you are, let
> me know and I'll direct you to it...

Oh....I guess I'm not.....sorry to hear 'bout yer troubles.....
<negative comment about Sibielus board suppressed>

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38318.html#38323

> Joe,
>
> --- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> > ***Because, it essentially affects the implementation of the
> > software. If it appears I'm the only *isolated* lone "wolf"
asking
> > for these things, the company is uninterested in including these
> > features....
>
> Ah, yes, that's a very good point. Maybe I should have sussed out
that you were actually wondering how many composers were actually
both writing micro music *as well as* using software notation
programs.
>
> Probably a veeeeeery small number, would be my guess. Best of luck
to you, though, in gettin this done. Have you been writing to the
company itself as well?
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Thanks, Jon... Actually I think there are *more and more* micro
composers using composing software... people like John Eaton, Alison
here on this forum, Kyle Gann, Frank Oteri... All trying to use
Sibelius for microtonal notation of one kind or another.

And I think there were a whole *bunch* of people doing that with
Finale, including David Doty, your "favorite" "nutty professor"...
who will remain unnamed, unfavorite and unnutty if you prefer... and
probably others in schools now who are using at *least* quartertones.

Sibelius does quartertones just fine... well it requires a *plug in*
so it's not *fully* implemented, but they are clearly aware of the
importance of having them.

And the good news is that I *can* get my work done in the software,
which is the important part. I only need to use the Ted Mook
PostScript symbols for 72-tET and pitch bends, which I have to enter
in manually.

Although I have not written *privately* to the company, they *have*
responded to me on the forum site that they *have* been at least
*considering* implementing the Sims 72-tET accidentals in future
releases.

Of course, their *standard* line is "it's being considered for a
future release" so I could be tripping over my beard before that will
happen...

Joe

jpehrson2 wrote:

> I'm constantly getting *shot down* on the Sibelius forum site when I
> mention the desire for anything other than quartertones.
>
> Does this really mean that composers, in general, are not *ready* for
> microtonality, except for quartertones????
>
> Joseph

Yes.

jpehrson2 wrote:

> --- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_38318.html#38321
>
> >
> > 3. Most importantly: why care about what other composers are doing?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jon
>
> ***Because, it essentially affects the implementation of the
> software. If it appears I'm the only *isolated* lone "wolf" asking
> for these things, the company is uninterested in including these
> features....
>
> Joe

I sympathise Joe. I contacted them too about microtonal features. I think that this company has
sadly passed the point of customer service (a trend with British outfits) and they're trying to
"make it big" around the world. Maybe in the early days they'd have considered entertaining
microtonalists. It can't be that hard considering the features the programme already has.

Regards

--- In tuning@y..., Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@w...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_38318.html#38328

>
>
> jpehrson2 wrote:
>
> > --- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> >
> > /tuning/topicId_38318.html#38321
> >
> > >
> > > 3. Most importantly: why care about what other composers are
doing?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jon
> >
> > ***Because, it essentially affects the implementation of the
> > software. If it appears I'm the only *isolated* lone "wolf"
asking
> > for these things, the company is uninterested in including these
> > features....
> >
> > Joe
>
> I sympathise Joe. I contacted them too about microtonal features. I
think that this company has
> sadly passed the point of customer service (a trend with British
outfits) and they're trying to
> "make it big" around the world. Maybe in the early days they'd have
considered entertaining
> microtonalists. It can't be that hard considering the features the
programme already has.
>
> Regards

***Thanks so much for your response, Alison!

This is particularly interesting since I just found out that one of
the *early* versions of Sibelius for the British *Acorn* computer
included *temperaments!*

So, there *may* be some hope yet. I also undersold a bit some of the
composers on the Sibelius chat forum, since some people *did* come to
my defense in an expression of interest in microtonal features.

We can only hope and wait! (my beard grows longer...)

Thanks!

Joseph