John Eaton

I had the fortunate experience of spending the afternoon yesterday
with famed American microtonal composer John Eaton, who lives now in
the New York area. John as many of you know, has been working with
microtonality, mostly quartertones, since the 1960's. He also has
managed to get several large-scale microtonal operas produced... no
small feat.

In any case, some of you might be interested in learning that, over
the years, Eaton has done quite a bit *more* than just quartertones.
He's done quite a bit of work, and is particularly interested in 6th
tones and the 7th partial, and has Just Intonation sections in his
works as well.

For those enamored of *exact* Just Intonation, you will be happy to
learn that most of Eaton's instructions for such involve not much
more than indicating the "elimination of beats" rather than any other
schema.

In any case, I gave him a copy of Dave Keenan's 72-tET chart of the
intervals/partials and he seemed quite fascinated with it. In fact,
he said he thought that he might "use it every day..."

J. Pehrson

For those of you who are interested in hearing beautiful microtonal music (with
and without seventh partials, etc.), find the CD : "The Music of John Eaton"
(Indiana University). Also, apropos of recent discussions on this list which were
prompted by my own essay, some of you may be interested to read Frank Oteri's
interview with John Eaton, in which, among other things, Eaton eloquently states
his own position on similar issues. See:
http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp00

especially "A non-theoretical approach to microtonality"
http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp01
and "the danger of simplicity"
http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp04

Also be sure to see what he says about: "practical realities," and "audience
perception"

I should think all this, in combination with his music itself, might be fodder for
thought and discussion here on your list.

--- In tuning@y..., "jwerntz2002" <juliawerntz@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_37830.html#37994

> For those of you who are interested in hearing beautiful microtonal
music (with
> and without seventh partials, etc.), find the CD : "The Music of
John Eaton"
> (Indiana University). Also, apropos of recent discussions on this
list which were
> prompted by my own essay, some of you may be interested to read
Frank Oteri's
> interview with John Eaton, in which, among other things, Eaton
eloquently states
> his own position on similar issues. See:
> http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp00
>
> especially "A non-theoretical approach to microtonality"
> http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp01
> and "the danger of simplicity"
> http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp04
>
> Also be sure to see what he says about: "practical realities,"
and "audience perception"
>
> I should think all this, in combination with his music itself,
might be fodder for thought and discussion here on your list.

***Thank you very much, Julia, for posting this link. When I read
the interview with Eaton a couple of years ago, I didn't know John
Eaton, and somehow didn't get to the video excerpts, which are still
on the New Music Box site. They're great.

I'm particularly interested in the later work, like _Don Quixote_,
which uses all the variety and theatrical potential.

Like Oteri, I see a relationship between Eaton and Harry Partch,
although Eaton strongly disclaims it.

(Jon Szanto is not going to think much of Eaton's Partch comments, I
believe...)

Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> (Jon Szanto is not going to think much of Eaton's Partch comments, I
> believe...)

How ungainly. Why not let Jon Szanto read it for himself and offer his opinion before writing the above?

Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_37830.html#38007

> --- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> > (Jon Szanto is not going to think much of Eaton's Partch
comments, I
> > believe...)
>
> How ungainly. Why not let Jon Szanto read it for himself and offer
his opinion before writing the above?
>
> Jon

***So now what's the problem.

I was just pointing it out to you. How would I know you would even
read it, unless I mentioned it??

JP

--- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_37830.html#38008

> --- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_37830.html#38007
>
> > --- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> > > (Jon Szanto is not going to think much of Eaton's Partch
> comments, I
> > > believe...)
> >
> > How ungainly. Why not let Jon Szanto read it for himself and
offer
> his opinion before writing the above?
> >
> > Jon
>
> ***So now what's the problem.
>
> I was just pointing it out to you. How would I know you would even
> read it, unless I mentioned it??
>
> JP

***Perhaps, Jon, I should have just said: "This is something that
Jon Szanto should read and "weigh in on"... rather than attributing a
judgement by you.

sorry,

Joe

Joe,

--- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> ***Perhaps, Jon, I should have just said: "This is something that
> Jon Szanto should read and "weigh in on"... rather than attributing
> a judgement by you.

There ya go! You saved me answering your question, and indeed something like this would have been appreciated. If you set it up publically that "someone isn't going to like this when they read it", both me (the reader) and anyone waiting for a response already have expectations.

In any event, I downloaded the article but then scanned quickly through it online. His take on the simplicity of Partch's materials and scores is certainly not a new one; it is unfortunate that he finds it so lacking as to characterize it as banal and, worse yet, lump it in with nazis and fascism. Unfortunate, but not unusual.

I haven't heard any of his music, so I can't offer any critiques or opinions. I happen to believe the world is large enough to accomodate art forms from the simplest to the most complex; others, especially Western, Euro-centric thinkers, feel otherwise. That's just the way it is.

> sorry,

No problem!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_37830.html#38011

> Joe,
>
> --- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> > ***Perhaps, Jon, I should have just said: "This is something
that
> > Jon Szanto should read and "weigh in on"... rather than
attributing
> > a judgement by you.
>
> There ya go! You saved me answering your question, and indeed
something like this would have been appreciated. If you set it up
publically that "someone isn't going to like this when they read it",
both me (the reader) and anyone waiting for a response already have
expectations.
>
> In any event, I downloaded the article but then scanned quickly
through it online. His take on the simplicity of Partch's materials
and scores is certainly not a new one; it is unfortunate that he
finds it so lacking as to characterize it as banal and, worse yet,
lump it in with nazis and fascism. Unfortunate, but not unusual.
>
> I haven't heard any of his music, so I can't offer any critiques or
opinions. I happen to believe the world is large enough to accomodate
art forms from the simplest to the most complex; others, especially
Western, Euro-centric thinkers, feel otherwise. That's just the way
it is.
>
> > sorry,
>
> No problem!
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***I really like John Eaton, and my wife Linda and I had a
*wonderful* time with him just recently. I have to say, though,
after seeing the similarity to Partch's work, at least *I* see a
great similarity, in particularly the _Don Quixote_ video excerpt,
which is there quite readily on line, I might quite possibly suspect
other feasible reasons why he might not be overly enamored of
Partch. I kept seeing _Delusion of the Fury_ in the way the players
were moving around, even though they were using traditional
instruments in contradistinction to the Partch work...

Joe

--- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> I have to say, though,
> after seeing the similarity to Partch's work, at least *I* see a
> great similarity, in particularly the _Don Quixote_ video excerpt,
> which is there quite readily on line, I might quite possibly suspect
> other feasible reasons why he might not be overly enamored of
> Partch. I kept seeing _Delusion of the Fury_ in the way the players
> were moving around, even though they were using traditional
> instruments in contradistinction to the Partch work...

I don't have time this morn for the vids, but you've picqued (sp?) my curiousity and I'll try to watch this eve.

Thanks,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_37830.html#38015

>
> I don't have time this morn for the vids, but you've picqued (sp?)
my curiousity and I'll try to watch this eve.
>
> Thanks,
> Jon

***Note, Jon, that *this* time I didn't venture what your comments
would be on this... :)

JP

--- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

> I haven't heard any of his music, so I can't offer any critiques or opinions.

If I recall correctly it was back in the seventies that he had the very first televison broadcast of a quarter-tone opera to his credit.
Too bad you missed it. :)

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> If I recall correctly it was back in the seventies...

I would probably have been partying around then! :)

> ...that he had the very first televison broadcast of a quarter-tone
> opera to his credit.

This is referred to in the interview; I believe it was called "Myshkin".

> Too bad you missed it. :)

Possibly. :)

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:

> > Too bad you missed it. :)
>
> Possibly. :)

I wasn't that impressed. For one thing, I thought it was about time someone showed a little imagination and used 22 rather than 24, and for another, it seemed to me it was pretty much standard academic 70's type music, decorated with quarter-tones--in other words, it struck me as being what Julia proposed, adding notes for the sake of adding notes.

Then again, it was a long time ago; I wouldn't mind a second listen.

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_37830.html#38045

> --- In tuning@y..., "jonszanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
>
> > > Too bad you missed it. :)
> >
> > Possibly. :)
>
> I wasn't that impressed. For one thing, I thought it was about time
someone showed a little imagination and used 22 rather than 24, and
for another, it seemed to me it was pretty much standard academic
70's type music, decorated with quarter-tones--in other words, it
struck me as being what Julia proposed, adding notes for the sake of
adding notes.
>
> Then again, it was a long time ago; I wouldn't mind a second listen.

***In my *personal* (*Pehrsonal*) opinion, I do feel there are some
of his pieces that fall into that "academic" category. But he also
has some *very* exciting things, like a wonderful piece for two
quartertone pianos that he plays himself (!), not "academic sounding"
at all, a beautiful and strange piece for several harps, and a
*really* wacko piece for screaming soprano and live whirring
electronics... you had to be there...

So, he's really all over the map and, personally, I like the *later*
things that are less in the traditional-sounding "academic" camp. We
all know what that sounds like. Some very good pieces in that
school, but lots of drab ones too, as we all know.

I would recommend some of the *later* works on the New Music Box
website, like the video of his _Don Quixote_ which regrettably I
missed here in New York last year. It seems to me like Partch with
Western instruments... and there's not much of an "academic" nature
in it whatsoever.

He also has a *huge* Great Dane, who is also not at all academic, I
can assure you...

Joseph

Dear Julia,
Thank you very much for your informative posts on the tuning list. I think about your dissertation a lot when I compose because it promotes another way of thinking about the 72 note equal temperament other than just and the forum seems way more balanced than it was before.

This interview with John Eaton is fabulous. The idea of tuning the two sides of the French horn a quarter tone apart gives me a lot of hope.

--Yours,
Rick

jwerntz2002 wrote:

>For those of you who are interested in hearing beautiful microtonal music (with >and without seventh partials, etc.), find the CD : "The Music of John Eaton" >(Indiana University). Also, apropos of recent discussions on this list which were >prompted by my own essay, some of you may be interested to read Frank Oteri's >interview with John Eaton, in which, among other things, Eaton eloquently states >his own position on similar issues. See: >http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp00
>
>especially "A non-theoretical approach to microtonality"
>http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp01
>and "the danger of simplicity"
>http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp04
>
>Also be sure to see what he says about: "practical realities," and "audience >perception"
>
>I should think all this, in combination with his music itself, might be fodder for >thought and discussion here on your list.
>
>
>
>

Dear Rick,

Thank you, this make me very glad. To present another way of thinking about
microtonality, to give this other approach a more prominent "voice," especially in
the American forum, where I feel it is underepresented, was my main goal.

All the best,

Julia

--- In tuning@y..., Rick Tagawa <ricktagawa@e...> wrote:
> Dear Julia,
> Thank you very much for your informative posts on the tuning list. I
> think about your dissertation a lot when I compose because it promotes
> another way of thinking about the 72 note equal temperament other than
> just and the forum seems way more balanced than it was before.
>
> This interview with John Eaton is fabulous. The idea of tuning the two
> sides of the French horn a quarter tone apart gives me a lot of hope.
>
> --Yours,
> Rick
>
> jwerntz2002 wrote:
>
> >For those of you who are interested in hearing beautiful microtonal music (with
> >and without seventh partials, etc.), find the CD : "The Music of John Eaton"
> >(Indiana University). Also, apropos of recent discussions on this list which were
> >prompted by my own essay, some of you may be interested to read Frank
Oteri's
> >interview with John Eaton, in which, among other things, Eaton eloquently
states
> >his own position on similar issues. See:
> >http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp00
> >
> >especially "A non-theoretical approach to microtonality"
> >http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp01
> >and "the danger of simplicity"
> >http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=17fp04
> >
> >Also be sure to see what he says about: "practical realities," and "audience
> >perception"
> >
> >I should think all this, in combination with his music itself, might be fodder for
> >thought and discussion here on your list.
> >
> >
> >
> >