Rob Greco and Steinways

Johnny writes:
>Steinways, based on personal experience, do not hold well at a full 50
>cent quartertone below standard pitch. For years, Steinway had prohibitions
> against retuning their pianos, though without explanation. It seems that
>as one loosens the tension to a full quartertone--or greater--the tension
> disappears and there is only a flabby string.

Well, this is news to me. The only factory "prohibition" that I have heard
of has been that against anything but equal temperament or the use of tuning
machines, and even that is directed only at the factory tuners, themselves.
I haven't had any problem with Steinway pianos that were tuned a full 100
cents flat staying put, and the strings are certainly not "flabby". I have
done this on several pianos that I was restringing to demonstrate that in ET,
the ability to recognize a key is pitch dependant. It is always interesting
to have someone professing that the key of B has an entirely different
"character" than the key of C, and then have them listen while I play a
piano,(which has only been brought up to ET at a pitch 100 cents under 440).
While I am sitting there playing in the key of C, they adamantly proclaim
that I am in B! Thus, my contention that in ET, there is no "character of
the keys", but rather, there may be a pitch recognition factor at work that
causes them to infuse the different keys with meaning from their own
experience.
Now, if I were to drop a piano 100 cents, it will be quite unstable for the
first couple of tunings, but once settled, will behave just like any other.
The bass strings can be damaged by the change, and often the lower tension
causes the piano to lose some of its brilliance, but stability isn't a
problem after a couple of tunings,(which is also true when I pitch raise a
piano that has gone flat through years of neglect, it isn't stable at
standard pitch for the first few tunings,either.)
Regards,
Ed Foote

Ed, maybe newer Steinways offer more. I was using the Steinway Horowitz used
that was donated to New York University. It could never hold 100 cents
below. Kyle Gann was on the concert and he chased me down because the tuning
was not right. After cornering the frightened piano tuner we learned that
the problem was a hardware problem.

best, Johnny

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_37306.html#37308

> Kyle Gann was on the concert and he chased me down because the
tuning was not right. After cornering the frightened piano tuner...

***I feel sorry for piano tuners sometimes... :)

J. P.

Jay here,
While at Indiana U. John Eaton had me tune several Steinways a quarter-tone
flat. My experience is the same as Ed describes below.
At 05:40 PM 6/6/02 EDT, you wrote:
>Johnny writes:
>>Steinways, based on personal experience, do not hold well at a full 50
>>cent quartertone below standard pitch. For years, Steinway had
prohibitions
>> against retuning their pianos, though without explanation. It seems that
>>as one loosens the tension to a full quartertone--or greater--the tension
>> disappears and there is only a flabby string.
>
> Well, this is news to me. The only factory "prohibition" that I have heard
>of has been that against anything but equal temperament or the use of tuning
>machines, and even that is directed only at the factory tuners, themselves.
> I haven't had any problem with Steinway pianos that were tuned a full 100
>cents flat staying put, and the strings are certainly not "flabby". I have
>done this on several pianos that I was restringing to demonstrate that in
ET,
>the ability to recognize a key is pitch dependant. It is always interesting
>to have someone professing that the key of B has an entirely different
>"character" than the key of C, and then have them listen while I play a
>piano,(which has only been brought up to ET at a pitch 100 cents under
440).
>While I am sitting there playing in the key of C, they adamantly proclaim
>that I am in B! Thus, my contention that in ET, there is no "character of
>the keys", but rather, there may be a pitch recognition factor at work that
>causes them to infuse the different keys with meaning from their own
>experience.
> Now, if I were to drop a piano 100 cents, it will be quite unstable for
the
>first couple of tunings, but once settled, will behave just like any other.
>The bass strings can be damaged by the change, and often the lower tension
>causes the piano to lose some of its brilliance, but stability isn't a
>problem after a couple of tunings,(which is also true when I pitch raise a
>piano that has gone flat through years of neglect, it isn't stable at
>standard pitch for the first few tunings,either.)
>Regards,
>Ed Foote
>
>
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--- In tuning@y..., Jay Williams <jaywill@t...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_37306.html#37327

> Jay here,
> While at Indiana U. John Eaton had me tune several Steinways a
quarter-tone
> flat. My experience is the same as Ed describes below.

***Hi Jay!

Did you know that John Eaton now lives close to New York, in New
Jersey. I met him at Johnny Reinhard's electronic concert, and in
two weeks will be visiting him at his home.

best,

Joe

Hi Jay,

Maybe my experience was limited to that single experience. Steinways rarely
have showed up when I have done retuned piano pieces. I shall defer to those
with more piano tuning experience. Any other explanations for why Steinway
was so forbidding to alternative tuning on their pianos? Ed?

Best, Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> Any other explanations for why Steinway
> was so forbidding to alternative tuning on their pianos?

is it so that they can simply place more conditions under which they
have an excuse to void your warranty, which can only be to their
benefit given their essential monopoly on concert pianos?