Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Retuned high third demo

Hello "high third" followers:

Since the basses immediately move the pitch high in the original "High third
demo," I have electronically moved the vocals down to match a new C played
on a synth. I also eliminated the piano comparison pitches from the original
and replaced them with synth pitch E that is correct (from the same
instrument) in relation to the given C. This offers a more accurate
impression of the "distance" of the vocal "low third" (12t-ET) and the vocal
"high" third (12t-ET).

Same page:

<http://www.stage3music.com/soundpage.html>

Or <http://stage3music.com/soundpage.html>

Click on "Retuned high third demo."

This one is in .wav format. It's a bit heftier (3.3mg) than mp3, but it
seems to be preferred here.

Hope this helps to clarify.

Jerry

🔗jpehrson2 <jpehrson@rcn.com>

--- In tuning@y..., Gerald Eskelin <stg3music@e...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_36295.html#36295

> Hello "high third" followers:
>
> Since the basses immediately move the pitch high in the
original "High third
> demo," I have electronically moved the vocals down to match a new C
played
> on a synth. I also eliminated the piano comparison pitches from the
original
> and replaced them with synth pitch E that is correct (from the same
> instrument) in relation to the given C. This offers a more accurate
> impression of the "distance" of the vocal "low third" (12t-ET) and
the vocal
> "high" third (12t-ET).
>
> Same page:
>
> <http://www.stage3music.com/soundpage.html>
>
> Or <http://stage3music.com/soundpage.html>
>
> Click on "Retuned high third demo."
>
> This one is in .wav format. It's a bit heftier (3.3mg) than mp3,
but it
> seems to be preferred here.
>
> Hope this helps to clarify.
>
> Jerry

***This is a fascinating test, Jerry! I'm *definitely* hearing the
sopranos singing the "high third" (or "high 10th!") here...

Joe

🔗Gerald Eskelin <stg3music@earthlink.net>

On 4/8/02 11:10 AM, "tuning@yahoogroups.com" <tuning@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:54:59 -0000
> From: "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@rcn.com>
> Subject: Re: Retuned high third demo
>
> --- In tuning@y..., Gerald Eskelin <stg3music@e...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_36295.html#36295
>
>> Hello "high third" followers:
>>
>> Since the basses immediately move the pitch high in the original "High third
>> demo," I have electronically moved the vocals down to match a new C played
>> on a synth. I also eliminated the piano comparison pitches from the original
>> and replaced them with synth pitch E that is correct (from the same
>> instrument) in relation to the given C. This offers a more accurate
>> impression of the "distance" of the vocal "low third" (12t-ET) and the vocal
>> "high" third (12t-ET).
>>
>> Same page:
>>
>> <http://www.stage3music.com/soundpage.html>
>>
>> Or <http://stage3music.com/soundpage.html>
>>
>> Click on "Retuned high third demo."
>>
>> This one is in .wav format. It's a bit heftier (3.3mg) than mp3, but it
>> seems to be preferred here.
>>
>> Hope this helps to clarify.
>>
>> Jerry
>
>
> ***This is a fascinating test, Jerry! I'm *definitely* hearing the
> sopranos singing the "high third" (or "high 10th!") here...
>
> Joe

Thanks for listening, Joe. Yeah, it seems pretty clear to me.

But this is where I came in here over a year ago. My question then was "why
do they *always* do that?" To some extent it still is.

However, our hearing the high third generating from a pure JI triad was an
enormous insight for me. At minimum, it raises the possibility that singing
*real* high thirds may have something to do with hearing "illusionary" ones.
That is a "new" piece of the puzzle we didn't have last year.

Bob's idea that the illusion can be "erased" by practice is interesting to
me. It will be of value to see what his choir does when he conducts the
"experiment." I hear all sorts of high thirds in his posted performance, but
I can't decide if these are *real* or "illusionary." They don't sustain long
enough to really tell. Clearly, the tuning is impeccable. I'm sure Bob will
insist they are singing JI thirds, and indeed they may be.

We do know now (thanks to Francois) that *my* sopranos aren't singing a JI
third (tenth) after the fifth comes in. Again, the question is "why." They
heard the "low" third as being "in tune" (likely JI). Why not hear the triad
third as being "in tune JI" and simply leave it there. If it *sounds* high,
so what? It apparently shouldn't have to *be* high. For some mysterious
reason they actually *move* the real pitch to where they/I/we seem to hear
the illusionary high third. Woo woooo! Spooky stuff going on here.

Enter jerries 0 and 00 attempting to locate the relative frequency of the
high third. Results inconclusive. Jerry10 indicates that most folks here
don't seem to hear the JI illusionary high third, at least not in comparison
to an ET triad. I'm not sure how that reflects on my questions. I'll have to
think about it.

Your (and other's) thoughts, please.

Jerry

(By the way, folks, the web page cited above is not linked within my regular
site. It was created just for illustrating my points here, so please excuse
its stark appearance. :-)

🔗emotionaljourney22 <paul@stretch-music.com>

🔗Gerald Eskelin <stg3music@earthlink.net>

On 4/9/02 6:24 PM, "tuning@yahoogroups.com" <tuning@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 05:47:04 -0000
> From: "emotionaljourney22" <paul@stretch-music.com>
> Subject: Re: Retuned high third demo
>
> --- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
>> --- In tuning@y..., Gerald Eskelin <stg3music@e...> wrote:
>>
>> /tuning/topicId_36295.html#36295
>>
>>> Hello "high third" followers:
>>>
>>> Since the basses immediately move the pitch high in the
>> original "High third
>>> demo," I have electronically moved the vocals down to match a new
> C
>> played
>>> on a synth.
>
> how far did you move them? 7 cents?

Something short of a semitone, as I remember. Far more than 7 cents.

I played whatever C my little portable keyboard offered, moved the voices
down (as a group, of course) to match that C, chopped out the old E check
tones and replaced them (as an overdub) with the same portable keyboard.

The point here, of course, is simply to give us all a more accurate aural
impression of the distance traveled (in relation to the ET third) by the
sopranos.

In my opinion, the distance I moved the voices in order to match the new C
is of no import, Paul. Did you have something in mind?

Jerry