Yahoo the Cowboys

Yahoo had the plumbers in this morning. No emails (I thought I'd been
kicked off for dissing opera) and at the groups page an excuse and a
stupid picture of a plumber with an "I can't fix it" look on his face.
Ah - the joys of modern technology - I didn't know that plumbers fixed
computer networks.........

Regards

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alison Monteith" <alison.monteith3@which.net>

> Yahoo had the plumbers in this morning. No emails (I thought I'd been
> kicked off for dissing opera) and at the groups page an excuse and a
> stupid picture of a plumber with an "I can't fix it" look on his face.
> Ah - the joys of modern technology - I didn't know that plumbers fixed
> computer networks.........

It's up now, but I think it'll be a while before messages start
coming through on a more timely basis.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beardsley" <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

> It's up now, but I think it'll be a while before messages start
> coming through on a more timely basis.

Ha! I sent this 6 1/2 hours ago. It's going to take
a while fer Yahoo to catch up.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

>>It's up now, but I think it'll be a while before messages start
>>coming through on a more timely basis.
>
>Ha! I sent this 6 1/2 hours ago. It's going to take
>a while fer Yahoo to catch up.

Folks! Let's move to the usenet! Mark, what do you think?

-Carl

--- In tuning@y..., "clumma" <carl@l...> wrote:
> >>It's up now, but I think it'll be a while before messages start
> >>coming through on a more timely basis.
> >
> >Ha! I sent this 6 1/2 hours ago. It's going to take
> >a while fer Yahoo to catch up.
>
> Folks! Let's move to the usenet! Mark, what do you think?

I'm certainly open to alternatives to Yahoo. But as poor as it is, I
find the keyword search of the archive indispensable. Can we do that
on usenet?

--- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:

> I'm certainly open to alternatives to Yahoo. But as poor as it is, I
> find the keyword search of the archive indispensable. Can we do that
> on usenet?

You could use Google.

----- Original Message -----
From: "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@juno.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
>
> > I'm certainly open to alternatives to Yahoo. But as poor as it is, I
> > find the keyword search of the archive indispensable. Can we do that
> > on usenet?
>
> You could use Google.

To search usenet.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

>> I'm certainly open to alternatives to Yahoo. But as poor as it is, I
>> find the keyword search of the archive indispensable. Can we do that
>> on usenet?
>
>You could use Google.

It's not just that you could use google; THE interface for usenet is now
google. And what an interface it is!

-Carl

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:

> Ha! I sent this 6 1/2 hours ago. It's going to take
> a while fer Yahoo to catch up.

No kidding--check the date on the posting before yours.

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
>
> > Ha! I sent this 6 1/2 hours ago. It's going to take
> > a while fer Yahoo to catch up.
>
> No kidding--check the date on the posting before yours.

oh goodness -- two weeks late!

----- Original Message -----
From: "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@juno.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
>
> > Ha! I sent this 6 1/2 hours ago. It's going to take
> > a while fer Yahoo to catch up.
>
> No kidding--check the date on the posting before yours.

That was yesterday. Things seemed pretty normal by this morning.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., Carl Lumma <carl@l...> wrote:
> It's not just that you could use google; THE interface for usenet is
now
> google. And what an interface it is!
>
> -Carl

Yes! I suggest everyone who hasn't already, take a look at
http://www.google.com/grphp?hl=en
Particularly follow the links "Advanced Group search" and "Groups
help".

I'm in favour of (someone else) applying to start a new usenet group
called "humanities.music.tuning". You can find info on how to do that
in the abovementioned help. The process can take months.

Some disadvantages are:
No "files" area.
A delay of up to 4 hours before posts appear in Google-groups (of
course they appear on plain-vanilla usenet much sooner) and a delay of
up to 12 hours before they become searchable in the Google archive.

--- In tuning@y..., Carl Lumma <carl@l...> wrote:

> It's not just that you could use google; THE interface for usenet is now
> google. And what an interface it is!

There's still a place for dedicated newsreaders, but in fact you *can* just use Google, which pretty well eliminates the geekiness barrier to Usenet.

----- Original Message -----
From: "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@uq.net.au>

> I'm in favour of (someone else) applying to start a new usenet group
> called "humanities.music.tuning". You can find info on how to do that
> in the abovementioned help. The process can take months.

Good call Dave - make a usenet address where
nobody can find us. How about alt.music.tunings?

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., "clumma" <carl@l...> wrote:
> Folks! Let's move to the usenet! Mark, what do you think?

Folks! Let's find someone with a server and run a real listserv! Mark, what do you think?

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...>
>
> > I'm in favour of (someone else) applying to start a new usenet
group
> > called "humanities.music.tuning". You can find info on how to do
that
> > in the abovementioned help. The process can take months.
>
> Good call Dave - make a usenet address where
> nobody can find us. How about alt.music.tunings?

In fact I thought it would maximise our chances of being found. I'm
just going by what I read in
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/6882/ncreate.html

Do you particularly want the "s" on the end of "tunings". It's never
had one before. I take "tuning" to be the name of the process as much
as the result, as in "the tuning of musical instruments?".

I thought of other disadvantages of usenet. Junkmail and junk
postings. "How to make a million dollars", "Great sex site".

Yahoo actually gives us significant protection from
(a) getting our email addresses extracted and added to junkmail lists
(b) getting junk posts to the group.

With usenet you have to make your own arrangements for anonymous
posting and no one can ban an address from an unmoderated usenet
group.

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...>
>
> > I'm in favour of (someone else) applying to start a new usenet group
> > called "humanities.music.tuning". You can find info on how to do that
> > in the abovementioned help. The process can take months.
>
> Good call Dave - make a usenet address where
> nobody can find us. How about alt.music.tunings?

An alt group is easier to create, but a hum group is going to be better propagated; rec would be another possibility. What makes you think it would be hard to find?

>>Folks! Let's move to the usenet! Mark, what do you think?
>
>Folks! Let's find someone with a server and run a real listserv!
>Mark, what do you think?

I'm all for this, too. Heck, I can even do it on my server
today. They throw it in for free. I think I've even got
plusmail web-based administration.

-Carl

Dave K. wrote...
>I'm in favour of (someone else) applying to start a new usenet group
>called "humanities.music.tuning". You can find info on how to do that
>in the abovementioned help. The process can take months.

David Beardsley wrote...
>Good call Dave - make a usenet address where
>nobody can find us. How about alt.music.tunings?

alt.music.tunings sounds better, but you're bound to get more
spam and such. It depends on if we want an academic setting.

No need to have a show-stopping fight over it either. We can start
with two and see which one we like best.

>Some disadvantages are:
>No "files" area.

ftp.

Remember, we don't have a files area now -- it's been full for
a long time.

>A delay of up to 4 hours before posts appear in Google-
>groups (of course they appear on plain-vanilla usenet much
>sooner) and a delay of up to 12 hours before they become
>searchable in the Google archive.

There is that. Since I don't post to the usenet, I forgot
about it.

>There's still a place for dedicated newsreaders, but in fact
>you *can* just use Google, which pretty well eliminates the
>geekiness barrier to Usenet.

I've always used Free Agent. I like it plenty. But I haven't
used it much since Google came on line. Maybe once I start
posting I'll go back to it.

-Carl

--- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_35198.html#35224

> --- In tuning@y..., "clumma" <carl@l...> wrote:
> > >>It's up now, but I think it'll be a while before messages start
> > >>coming through on a more timely basis.
> > >
> > >Ha! I sent this 6 1/2 hours ago. It's going to take
> > >a while fer Yahoo to catch up.
> >
> > Folks! Let's move to the usenet! Mark, what do you think?
>
> I'm certainly open to alternatives to Yahoo. But as poor as it is,
I
> find the keyword search of the archive indispensable. Can we do
that on usenet?

****Usenet doesn't impress *me* so much, with the poking around on it
I've done so far. It seems a little "non-intuitive..." information
all over the place, but maybe I just don't know how to use the
threads properly... ??

jp

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_35198.html#35240

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...>
>
> > --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> >
> > > Ha! I sent this 6 1/2 hours ago. It's going to take
> > > a while fer Yahoo to catch up.
> >
> > No kidding--check the date on the posting before yours.
>
> That was yesterday. Things seemed pretty normal by this morning.
>
>
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
> * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

***I rather wonder what all the great "improvements" are that kept
the Yahoo system down for practically two full days.

I guess maybe the ads are blinking faster...

jp

--- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_35198.html#35253

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...>
> >
> > > I'm in favour of (someone else) applying to start a new usenet
> group
> > > called "humanities.music.tuning". You can find info on how to
do
> that
> > > in the abovementioned help. The process can take months.
> >
> > Good call Dave - make a usenet address where
> > nobody can find us. How about alt.music.tunings?
>
> In fact I thought it would maximise our chances of being found. I'm
> just going by what I read in
> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/6882/ncreate.html
>
> Do you particularly want the "s" on the end of "tunings". It's
never
> had one before. I take "tuning" to be the name of the process as
much
> as the result, as in "the tuning of musical instruments?".
>
> I thought of other disadvantages of usenet. Junkmail and junk
> postings. "How to make a million dollars", "Great sex site".
>
> Yahoo actually gives us significant protection from
> (a) getting our email addresses extracted and added to junkmail
lists
> (b) getting junk posts to the group.
>
> With usenet you have to make your own arrangements for anonymous
> posting and no one can ban an address from an unmoderated usenet
> group.

****Complain as we do, there's actually quite a bit
of "infrastructure" in the Yahoo Groups setup/interface...

jp

In-Reply-To: <008c01c1c51c$a26ea180$47cc2444@union01.nj.comcast.net>
Gene wrote:

> > You could use Google.

and David Beardsley replied:

> To search usenet.

I can see this is turning into one of the most exciting threads of recent
history. For those of you on the edges of your seats, wanting to know
where to go on Google for the usenet search, try
<http://groups.google.com>. It is a lot better than what we're using now
with Yahoo.

About the plumbers -- it isn't so much computers they deal with, but the
network. A system like Yahoo's will have a lot of pipes connecting the
servers together. See any book on Unix programming. When you replace
them, you need to drain the system, which is why it was unavailable for so
long. It also takes a while for the pressure to return, as well as having
to deal with all the e-mails in the storage tank. That explains the
delays we've had since it came back on.

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@juno.com>

> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@b...> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...>
> >
> > > I'm in favour of (someone else) applying to start a new usenet group
> > > called "humanities.music.tuning". You can find info on how to do that
> > > in the abovementioned help. The process can take months.
> >
> > Good call Dave - make a usenet address where
> > nobody can find us. How about alt.music.tunings?
>
> An alt group is easier to create, but a hum group is going to be better
propagated; rec would be another possibility. What makes you think it would
be hard to find?

humanities???

dB