names for Blackjack step-sizes?

Is there an accepted name for the small Blackjack interval
which Graham Breed calls "q" on his webpage, which is
2^(2/72) = 33&1/3 cents ? See:

http://www.ixpres.com/interval/dict/decimal.htm

http://x31eq.com/decimal_notation.htm

I was updating my Dictionary entry for "diesis", when
I realized that this interval is another type of diesis.

Also, is there a name for the other basic Blackjack interval,
2^(5/72) = 83&1/3 cents ?

-monz

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--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_33194.html#33194

> Is there an accepted name for the small Blackjack interval
> which Graham Breed calls "q" on his webpage, which is
> 2^(2/72) = 33&1/3 cents ? See:
>
> http://www.ixpres.com/interval/dict/decimal.htm
>
> http://x31eq.com/decimal_notation.htm
>
>
> I was updating my Dictionary entry for "diesis", when
> I realized that this interval is another type of diesis.
>
>
> Also, is there a name for the other basic Blackjack interval,
> 2^(5/72) = 83&1/3 cents ?
>
>
>
> -monz
>
>

Hi Monz...

I don't believe anybody has ever yet named these intervals...

JP

--- In tuning@y..., "jpehrson2" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_33194.html#33194
>
> > Is there an accepted name for the small Blackjack interval
> > which Graham Breed calls "q" on his webpage, which is
> > 2^(2/72) = 33&1/3 cents ? See:
...
> > Also, is there a name for the other basic Blackjack interval,
> > 2^(5/72) = 83&1/3 cents ?
>
> I don't believe anybody has ever yet named these intervals...

Except to call them a super unison and a subminor second.

--- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:

> > I don't believe anybody has ever yet named these intervals...
>
> Except to call them a super unison and a subminor second.

I believe this nomenclature will fall short when it comes to
distinguishing the 300 cent and 316 2/3 cent intervals of
Blackjack . . .

In-Reply-To: <a32pb0+c475@eGroups.com>
Joe M:
> > > Is there an accepted name for the small Blackjack interval
> > > which Graham Breed calls "q" on his webpage, which is
> > > 2^(2/72) = 33&1/3 cents ? See:
> ...
> > > Also, is there a name for the other basic Blackjack interval,
> > > 2^(5/72) = 83&1/3 cents ?

Joe P:
> > I don't believe anybody has ever yet named these intervals...

I use "q" as short for "quomma". Nobody else does. The other blackjack
step I call "r" but I haven't thought of anything for that to be short
for.

Dave K:
> Except to call them a super unison and a subminor second.

The latter could be decimally named as 1v (or 1<) or a "narrowed one-step"
or somesuch. The quomma or 0^ or 0> is best with a special name, because
"widened no-step" sounds strange.

Graham

--- In tuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_33194.html#33282

> --- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
>
> > > I don't believe anybody has ever yet named these intervals...
> >
> > Except to call them a super unison and a subminor second.
>
> I believe this nomenclature will fall short when it comes to
> distinguishing the 300 cent and 316 2/3 cent intervals of
> Blackjack . . .

Perhaps the smaller interval should be called a "jack" and the larger
interval called a "jill?".... :)

JP

--- In tuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
>
> > > I don't believe anybody has ever yet named these intervals...
> >
> > Except to call them a super unison and a subminor second.
>
> I believe this nomenclature will fall short when it comes to
> distinguishing the 300 cent and 316 2/3 cent intervals of
> Blackjack . . .

Why's that? What's wrong with narrow minor third (300c) and minor
third (316.7c) for these?

--- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
> >
> > > > I don't believe anybody has ever yet named these intervals...
> > >
> > > Except to call them a super unison and a subminor second.
> >
> > I believe this nomenclature will fall short when it comes to
> > distinguishing the 300 cent and 316 2/3 cent intervals of
> > Blackjack . . .
>
> Why's that? What's wrong with narrow minor third (300c) and minor
> third (316.7c) for these?

Oh . . . I didn't know "narrow" was one of your qualifiers. Thanks.

--- In tuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> > > --- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I don't believe anybody has ever yet named these
intervals...
> > > >
> > > > Except to call them a super unison and a subminor second.
> > >
> > > I believe this nomenclature will fall short when it comes to
> > > distinguishing the 300 cent and 316 2/3 cent intervals of
> > > Blackjack . . .
> >
> > Why's that? What's wrong with narrow minor third (300c) and minor
> > third (316.7c) for these?
>
> Oh . . . I didn't know "narrow" was one of your qualifiers. Thanks.

Yes. Narrow and wide qualifiers do not appear until you go beyond an
open chain of more than (+-)15 secors. That's the beauty of it. It's
totally logical and consistent and becomes identical to Fokker's
scheme when it is applied to 31-tET. But it extends to 41-tET, 72-tET,
11-limit JI and of course any open Miracle tempered system.

I suspect it will give sensible extended-diatonic names for the
intervals of any ET with 41 or fewer notes, by rounding to the
nearest 72-tET interval.

This full Miracle-based extended-Fokker extended-diatonic
interval-naming-scheme is briefly described, with a table, at:

http://dkeenan.com/Music/Miracle/MiracleIntervalNaming.txt

--- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:

> Yes. Narrow and wide qualifiers do not appear until you go beyond
an
> open chain of more than (+-)15 secors.

But Blackjack is only (+-)10 secors, and yet they must be applied to
Blackjack intervals. How do you explain that?

> That's the beauty of it. It's
> totally logical and consistent and becomes identical to Fokker's
> scheme when it is applied to 31-tET. But it extends to 41-tET, 72-
tET,
> 11-limit JI and of course any open Miracle tempered system.

Is it essentially identical with saggital notation from C?

> I suspect it will give sensible extended-diatonic names for the
> intervals of any ET with 41 or fewer notes, by rounding to the
> nearest 72-tET interval.

So what's 36/72-oct. called?

--- In tuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@u...> wrote:
>
> > Yes. Narrow and wide qualifiers do not appear until you go beyond
> an
> > open chain of more than (+-)15 secors.
>
> But Blackjack is only (+-)10 secors, and yet they must be applied to
> Blackjack intervals. How do you explain that?

Blackjack is an open chain, so intervals exist in it which go out to
+-20 secors. Because 31-tET is closed you can always decide that +16
secors is really only -15 secors etc.

> > That's the beauty of it. It's
> > totally logical and consistent and becomes identical to Fokker's
> > scheme when it is applied to 31-tET. But it extends to 41-tET, 72-
> tET,
> > 11-limit JI and of course any open Miracle tempered system.
>
> Is it essentially identical with saggital notation from C?

A darn good question. You mean, are the semantics the same? I'll have
to let someone else figure that out. It's possible.

> > I suspect it will give sensible extended-diatonic names for the
> > intervals of any ET with 41 or fewer notes, by rounding to the
> > nearest 72-tET interval.
>
> So what's 36/72-oct. called?

I don't mind if people still want to special-case it and call it a
tritone, but this system calls it either a wide augmented fourth (WA4)
or a narrow diminished fifth (nd5), take your pick, depending on
context.