It's because we're so shy

Hi All,

I don't know if I speak for all the folks on the list
who read but don't post, but as a grad student in
musicology and a relative newbie to tuning theory, I
lurk in the shadows of the tuning list to keep an eye
out for stuff pertinent to a couple of composers I'm
studying, and of course, to try to learn something
from y'all. I have a couple of other friends at school
that subscribe to the list or have in the past; they
didn't post much either, but as scholars and music
theorists liked to keep abreast of what those of you
on the cutting edge of funky tunings are up to, even
though alternative tunings wasn't their main thing.

I have to say, the conversations that go on here are
quite unique in the type, extent, and depth of
dialogue that goes on. I hope no one minds my
eavesdropping.

BTW, hi David B. We met at the Dream House back in
March, when I was in NYC to interview La Monte.

--JNG (a tuning group wallflower)

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--- In tuning@y..., Jeremy Grimshaw <jngrimshaw@y...> wrote:

> I have to say, the conversations that go on here are
> quite unique in the type, extent, and depth of
> dialogue that goes on. I hope no one minds my
> eavesdropping.

Hi, Jeremy. I'm not convinced of unique--have you ever looked at tuning-math?

--- In tuning@y..., Jeremy Grimshaw <jngrimshaw@y...> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I don't know if I speak for all the folks on the list
> who read but don't post, but as a grad student in
> musicology and a relative newbie to tuning theory, I
> lurk in the shadows of the tuning list to keep an eye
> out for stuff pertinent to a couple of composers I'm
> studying, and of course, to try to learn something
> from y'all. I have a couple of other friends at school
> that subscribe to the list or have in the past; they
> didn't post much either, but as scholars and music
> theorists liked to keep abreast of what those of you
> on the cutting edge of funky tunings are up to, even
> though alternative tunings wasn't their main thing.
>
> I have to say, the conversations that go on here are
> quite unique in the type, extent, and depth of
> dialogue that goes on. I hope no one minds my
> eavesdropping.
>
> BTW, hi David B. We met at the Dream House back in
> March, when I was in NYC to interview La Monte.
>
> --JNG (a tuning group wallflower)

Much like the "Wizard of Oz" turned out to be a homely
little guy with rotund little arse manipulating a huge
illusion, the internet has a way of amplifying the
importance of individual personalities to proportions
which seem absurd, upon reflection. Without an audience
to convince and persuade, performers feel empty. It is
(perhaps) the very silence of that "audience", and the
small number of voices, which make some seem (or *think*
that they seem) so "grandiose" ... :)

Enjoy the show, despite the "showboats", if one can.
(alas) So much data, yet so little *information* ...
I *try* to remember that when I speak (with a few
exceptions, perhaps). We are probably lucky that
*anyone* is listening ... :)

Sometimes the "sound of our own wheels" makes us crazy!
Lucky you!

J Gill

--- In tuning@y..., "unidala" <JGill99@i...> wrote:

> Much like the "Wizard of Oz" turned out to be a homely
> little guy with rotund little arse manipulating a huge
> illusion, the internet has a way of amplifying the
> importance of individual personalities to proportions
> which seem absurd, upon reflection. Without an audience
> to convince and persuade, performers feel empty. It is
> (perhaps) the very silence of that "audience", and the
> small number of voices, which make some seem (or *think*
> that they seem) so "grandiose" ... :)

Speak for yourself, my friend. :)

> Enjoy the show, despite the "showboats", if one can.
> (alas) So much data, yet so little *information* ...

I agree with you that Joe Monzo may have a better chance than anyone
to help in the presentation area.

> I *try* to remember that when I speak (with a few
> exceptions, perhaps).

If so, then the remedy would be to ask specific, pointed questions,
that would help in the *conversion*.

--- In tuning@y..., "paulerlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "unidala" <JGill99@i...> wrote:
>
> > Much like the "Wizard of Oz" turned out to be a homely
> > little guy with rotund little arse manipulating a huge
> > illusion, the internet has a way of amplifying the
> > importance of individual personalities to proportions
> > which seem absurd, upon reflection. Without an audience
> > to convince and persuade, performers feel empty. It is
> > (perhaps) the very silence of that "audience", and the
> > small number of voices, which make some seem (or *think*
> > that they seem) so "grandiose" ... :)
>
> Speak for yourself, my friend. :)
>
> > Enjoy the show, despite the "showboats", if one can.
> > (alas) So much data, yet so little *information* ...
>
> I agree with you that Joe Monzo may have a better chance than anyone
> to help in the presentation area.
>
> > I *try* to remember that when I speak (with a few
> > exceptions, perhaps).
>
> If so, then the remedy would be to ask specific, pointed questions,
> that would help in the *conversion*.

J Gill: Case in point, your Honor.

Please post all further comments to lonely_nerds@yahoogroups.com

- His Royal Badness

> From: paulerlich <paul@stretch-music.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:11 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: It's because we're so shy
>
>
> > [J Gill]
> > Enjoy the show, despite the "showboats", if one can.
> > (alas) So much data, yet so little *information* ...
>
> I agree with you that Joe Monzo may have a better chance
> than anyone to help in the presentation area.

Thanks for the sincere vote of confidence, guys.
I certainly try hard ... it's good to know that my work
is so well appreciated ... especially since I *don't
make a penny off of it* (except for the handful of
book sales at microtonal conferences...)

BTW ... the Dictionary still needs that list of
"unidala" definitions, whenever J and the rest of the
world are ready ...

-monz

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--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
>
> > From: paulerlich <paul@s...>
> > To: <tuning@y...>
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:11 PM
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: It's because we're so shy
> >
> >
> > > [J Gill]
> > > Enjoy the show, despite the "showboats", if one can.
> > > (alas) So much data, yet so little *information* ...
> >
> > I agree with you that Joe Monzo may have a better chance
> > than anyone to help in the presentation area.
>
>
> Thanks for the sincere vote of confidence, guys.
> I certainly try hard ... it's good to know that my work
> is so well appreciated ... especially since I *don't
> make a penny off of it* (except for the handful of
> book sales at microtonal conferences...)
>
> BTW ... the Dictionary still needs that list of
> "unidala" definitions, whenever J and the rest of the
> world are ready ...

J Gill: It's gonna be a happenin, Joe. :)

--- In tuning@y..., "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@j...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_32600.html#32601

> --- In tuning@y..., Jeremy Grimshaw <jngrimshaw@y...> wrote:
>
> > I have to say, the conversations that go on here are
> > quite unique in the type, extent, and depth of
> > dialogue that goes on. I hope no one minds my
> > eavesdropping.
>
> Hi, Jeremy. I'm not convinced of unique--have you ever looked at
tuning-math?

Well...actully, Gene has set some pretty high standards over at
Tuning Math for some of us, like *myself* who occasionally lurk.
Might a PhD in math be sufficient?? Mine is in *music* so I have
very little business over there... :)

J. Pehrson

> From: jpehrson2 <jpehrson@rcn.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:52 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: It's because we're so shy
>
>
> Well...actully, Gene has set some pretty high standards over at
> Tuning Math for some of us, like *myself* who occasionally lurk.
> Might a PhD in math be sufficient?? Mine is in *music* so I have
> very little business over there... :)

Oh, Joe, I say let's both of us "boldy go where no musician
has gone before"!

I for one unabashedly expose my math-challenged brain to
the head honchos on tuning-math, and they always come thru
with a good patient explanation of what's going on, or
at the very least enough references to where the detailed
info appears.

-monz

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--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_32600.html#32617

>
> > From: jpehrson2 <jpehrson@r...>
> > To: <tuning@y...>
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 8:52 PM
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: It's because we're so shy
> >
> >
> > Well...actully, Gene has set some pretty high standards over at
> > Tuning Math for some of us, like *myself* who occasionally lurk.
> > Might a PhD in math be sufficient?? Mine is in *music* so I have
> > very little business over there... :)
>
>
> Oh, Joe, I say let's both of us "boldy go where no musician
> has gone before"!
>
> I for one unabashedly expose my math-challenged brain to
> the head honchos on tuning-math, and they always come thru
> with a good patient explanation of what's going on, or
> at the very least enough references to where the detailed
> info appears.
>
>
> -monz
>

Well, Monz, it is also for *me* a matter of time. I barely have time
to keep up with *this* list and still compose! I'd rather wait until
the Tuning-Math *results* come in and then try to make some kind of
music with them, if possible...

JP

> From: jpehrson2 <jpehrson@rcn.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:53 AM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: It's because we're so shy
>
>
> Well, Monz, it is also for *me* a matter of time. I barely have time
> to keep up with *this* list and still compose! I'd rather wait until
> the Tuning-Math *results* come in and then try to make some kind of
> music with them, if possible...

Fair enough ... I can understand that, and I have enough regret
myself for the drop-off in my own musical production as I've
gotten more and more wrapped up in these lists.

But I suppose that must be a difference between us: you're
more interested in getting your hands dirty making music with
the new resources, while I'm more interested in getting my
hands dirty digging in and doing some of the exploration
that's creating those new resources. So we're both on
voyages of discovery ... we're just taking different routes.

-monz

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--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_32600.html#32622

>
> > From: jpehrson2 <jpehrson@r...>
> > To: <tuning@y...>
> > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 6:53 AM
> > Subject: [tuning] Re: It's because we're so shy
> >
> >
> > Well, Monz, it is also for *me* a matter of time. I barely have
time to keep up with *this* list and still compose! I'd rather wait
until the Tuning-Math *results* come in and then try to make some
kind of music with them, if possible...
>

>
> Fair enough ... I can understand that, and I have enough regret
> myself for the drop-off in my own musical production as I've
> gotten more and more wrapped up in these lists.
>
> But I suppose that must be a difference between us: you're
> more interested in getting your hands dirty making music with
> the new resources, while I'm more interested in getting my
> hands dirty digging in and doing some of the exploration
> that's creating those new resources. So we're both on
> voyages of discovery ... we're just taking different routes.
>
>
> -monz
>

Absolutely, Monz!

And, the important thing is to do that aspect which excites us the
most...!!

That's where I disagree with the people who think that actively
writing music is *of necessity* superior to doing theory or history
or whatever.

Although *composers* tend to have a very elevated status in the
musical pantheon, I believe it is overrated... and I'm even speaking
as somebody who *prefers* to compose myself...

I disagree with the arrogance of some composers who feel it's
the "only thing" that everybody else should be doing with their time.

Other people are just as important in music: the theorists, the
historians, the performers (especially good to flatter them. :) )

And one of the *most* important persons in music is surprisingly
enough, I believe, the *listener.*

Without that under-appreciated little fella, all we do is mostly for
naught...

(or naughty... following the "because we're so shy" thread)

I guess this verges on a *metatuning* topic.... :)

JP

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Grimshaw" <jngrimshaw@yahoo.com>

> BTW, hi David B. We met at the Dream House back in
> March, when I was in NYC to interview La Monte.

Hey! I'm glad to see you've got an eye on the list.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley