Does Maneri have fingering charts?

I was just wondering if anybody knew if Joe Maneri or anybody in the
Boston area had fingering charts for woodwinds in 72-tET?

I realize that most wind players can *bend* up to a 1/4 tone, so they
*should* be able to play 1/6 tone or 1/12 tone...

However, it appears that some players like the exactness of fingering
charts...

I just sent an e-mail to Julia Werntz of the Boston Microtonal
Society about this, so maybe she knows something....

I wonder if Joe uses fingering charts... as a *wind* player he must
be thinking about this, of course.

Maybe Dan Stearns knows something about this...

Thanks!

Joseph Pehrson

Hi Joe,

> From: <jpehrson@rcn.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 8:45 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Does Maneri have fingering charts?
>
>
> I was just wondering if anybody knew if Joe Maneri or anybody in the
> Boston area had fingering charts for woodwinds in 72-tET?
>
> I realize that most wind players can *bend* up to a 1/4 tone, so they
> *should* be able to play 1/6 tone or 1/12 tone...
>
> However, it appears that some players like the exactness of fingering
> charts...
>
> I just sent an e-mail to Julia Werntz of the Boston Microtonal
> Society about this, so maybe she knows something....
>
> I wonder if Joe uses fingering charts... as a *wind* player he must
> be thinking about this, of course.
>
> Maybe Dan Stearns knows something about this...
>
> Thanks!

The best resource I ever saw for microtonal woodwind
fingering charts was in an issue of Johnny Reinhard's
_Pitch_. I think it was the last (4th) one. I never
had a copy, but Jonathan's got one at the Sonic Arts
Gallery. You and Johnny are pretty close... you should
be able to get that.

(I started out in music as a woodwind player, and
have been getting back to my roots recently as I'm
teaching them again. So I'm rather interested in this
too...)

love / peace / harmony ...

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

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--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_30097.html#30098
>
>
> The best resource I ever saw for microtonal woodwind
> fingering charts was in an issue of Johnny Reinhard's
> _Pitch_. I think it was the last (4th) one. I never
> had a copy, but Jonathan's got one at the Sonic Arts
> Gallery. You and Johnny are pretty close... you should
> be able to get that.
>
> (I started out in music as a woodwind player, and
> have been getting back to my roots recently as I'm
> teaching them again. So I'm rather interested in this
> too...)
>

Hi Monz!

Yes, I have a copy of that issue of Johnny's _Pitch_, and there's
lots of interesting stuff in it, but nothing specifically on 72-tET
as I recall.

It appears that much of the work that Joe Maneri and group do is
by "bending," according to Dan Stearns.

However, if I find out more, I'll let you know.

For my *own* work at the moment, I'm tempted to just indicate the
pitches and ask that the player "bend" *or* develop a fingering for
it, if possible.

The "ball would be in the players court" that way.

Maybe that would be best for a while, until I work with enough
players that I can assemble and codify 72-tET charts for various
instruments...

Of course, players should probably be encouraged to develop their
*own* fingerings as well... rather than slavishly relying on a chart.

best,

Joe

In a message dated 11/12/01 9:19:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jpehrson@rcn.com writes:

> Yes, I have a copy of that issue of Johnny's _Pitch_, and there's
> lots of interesting stuff in it, but nothing specifically on 72-tET
> as I recall.
>

Wrong, Joe. There is much...you haven't noticed. For clarinet in 72-tET try
Ian Greitzer's chart on page 122. For saxophone in 72-tET, see Ken
Radnofsky's chart on page 133. For flute in 72-tET, see David Whiteside's
article on p. 75.

And these are for instruments "easy" to bend.

> It appears that much of the work that Joe Maneri and group do is
> by "bending," according to Dan Stearns.
>

The PITCH charts were coordinated by Ezra Sims. He has lots of instrument
experience in 72 with the Dinosaur Annex group of Boston.

> However, if I find out more, I'll let you know.
>
> For my *own* work at the moment, I'm tempted to just indicate the
> pitches and ask that the player "bend" *or* develop a fingering for
> it, if possible.
>

That would be unfortunate.

> The "ball would be in the players court" that way.
>

And that is unnecessary as I have pointed out.

> Maybe that would be best for a while, until I work with enough
> players that I can assemble and codify 72-tET charts for various
> instruments...
>

So, you would rather reinvent the wheel?

> Of course, players should probably be encouraged to develop their
> *own* fingerings as well... rather than slavishly relying on a chart.
>

From my vantage point, there is real question of whom would be the slave
here. Forcing people to work harder than necessary sounds like slave driving!

Best, Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_30097.html#30103

> In a message dated 11/12/01 9:19:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> jpehrson@r... writes:
>
>
> > Yes, I have a copy of that issue of Johnny's _Pitch_, and there's
> > lots of interesting stuff in it, but nothing specifically on 72-
tET
> > as I recall.
> >
>
>
> Wrong, Joe. There is much...you haven't noticed.

Sorry, Johnny... I don't have my copy with me here. I'll check it
out...

Joe

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_30097.html#30103

> In a message dated 11/12/01 9:19:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> jpehrson@r... writes:
>
>
> > Yes, I have a copy of that issue of Johnny's _Pitch_, and there's
> > lots of interesting stuff in it, but nothing specifically on 72-
tET as I recall.

>
> Wrong, Joe. There is much...you haven't noticed. For clarinet in
72-tET try Ian Greitzer's chart on page 122. For saxophone in 72-
tET, see Ken Radnofsky's chart on page 133. For flute in 72-tET, see
David Whiteside's article on p. 75.
>

Hi Johnny!

Well, finally I got home and am looking through these 72-tET charts!
They're great, but I'm finding them a little difficult to read. I
fear I would have to have an instrumentalist work right with me on
these in order to get them straight.

David Whiteside's 72-tET flute fingerings are *particularly*
cryptic. I'm sure *he* knows what they mean!

Ian Greitzer's clarinet 72-tET fingerings seem clearer, but he makes
the mistake of writing them over *STAVES* so it's hard to see if the
finger holes are open or closed!

And, Ken Radnofsky's 72-tET for sax has notation but absolutely
no "legend." I guess we know what "lip" and "jaw" mean...

Interestingly enough, the *clearest* 72-tET notation in this issue of
_Pitch_ for *me* is Ezra Sims horn fingering chart. I think I could
use that one right off!

I feel we are off to a good *START* here, but we really need more
systematic and clearer notation of 72-tET fingerings, a la Bruno
Bartolozzi... done out nicely and printed up on computer, etc.

That might be a good project for us and the AFMM sometime!

It would be a big project, though... but probably a valuable one.

Especially since I'm convinced that 72-tET is the future of music!

(Just kidding, any such grandiose statement by anybody should always
be immediately debunked!)

Incidentally, your *own* fingering charts in _Pitch_ are the *model*
of clarity... so I wish the other cats could have done them out like
that...

Thanks for all the help!

JP