For Latchezar: A very fine microtonal/JI artist . . .

. . . named HANS-ANDR� STAMM:

http://www.eufonia.de/enhcompe.htm

Check out the Impromptu, for example. This is awesome music! Can you deny it?

Paul,

> Check out the Impromptu, for example. This is awesome music!
> Can you deny it?

How can one deny an opinion? I've been wanting to hear some new
music, so I listened to the examples. The choral pieces were
affecting in their choral parts, especially beautiful solo voice
writing (and performing) that - IMO - were slightly ruined by the
cliched 1/4 tone writing. I liked the Impromptu best of all, as it
wasn't trying (too hard) to layer the microtonal over the more
conventional writing. But should we talk about how *very* quickly the
1/4 tone 'chromatic' runs got on my nerves? I'm really glad Roger
Williams didn't do "Autumn Leaves" with this kind of keyboard!

You know, I'd like to just hear some of this vocal music, a cappella,
tuned harmoniously. As for the composing with the 1/4 tones, I'd much
prefer (if looking for an "awesome" microtonal composer) the last
piano piece that Christopher Bailey posted, a couple of months back.
Now *that* was amazing!

But that is only an opinion! :)

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., paul@s... wrote:
> . . . named HANS-ANDRÉ STAMM:
>
> http://www.eufonia.de/enhcompe.htm
>
> Check out the Impromptu, for example. This is awesome music! Can you
> deny it?

I like it quite a bit myself, and I am not at all bothered by the
quarter tone runs as Jon is.

John Starrett

--- In tuning@y..., "John Starrett" <jstarret@c...> wrote:
> I like it quite a bit myself, and I am not at all bothered by the
> quarter tone runs as Jon is.

And that, in a nutshell, is all that matters: some don't like it, but
some do. And it doesn't hurt to give it a listen...

Jon

Well ...

As a composition, that's ok for me :)
Why do you, necessarrily, have to play this in that
temperament ? The same effect could be achieved by
using the pitch bend...
I heard the whole of it...sometimes like a martyr
...:)) And I don't like breaking my ears with other
divisions of the octave...In the opera, i still use
the conventional temperament and would like to keep my
references :)))

Dimitrov

--- John Starrett <jstarret@carbon.cudenver.edu> a
�crit�: > --- In tuning@y..., paul@s... wrote:
> > . . . named HANS-ANDR� STAMM:
> >
> > http://www.eufonia.de/enhcompe.htm
> >
> > Check out the Impromptu, for example. This is
> awesome music! Can you
> > deny it?
>
> I like it quite a bit myself, and I am not at all
> bothered by the
> quarter tone runs as Jon is.
>
> John Starrett
>
>

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In a message dated 9/23/01 2:16:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
latchezar_d@yahoo.com writes:

> And I don't like breaking my ears with other
> divisions of the octave...In the opera, i still use
> the conventional temperament and would like to keep my
> references :)))
>
>

There was once a time when I could not hear an exact quartertone. Playing
the bassoon, which is hard enough to play in a true 12-tone equal
temperament, I found the exact placement of a quartertone made me feel ill,
queasy. I was really worried that I would soon lose my references, as well.
Maybe it's akin to being car sick.

But you get over it. 12-tET does not have to be your only reference to
continue to play it exceptionally well. Actually, if you let your
perspectives wander, you'll play conventional "vanilla" tuning even better.

Best, Johnny Reinhard

:)))
No way! Sorry...

I have my proper conception of "JI" and "good
temperament" !
That is'nt ET12 !
And I'm free with my violin when I play :)
Here I have listen many many exemples and now I have
my proper opitnion, but...I still continue to read and
...delete :))
Try to listen any other 12 ET, not BACH !!!
But not with only one instrumet- but each voice must
use different instrument and you will understand how
little is the harmonic argument...when the melodic is
the leader !
I speak not for "any " musician, for any one why had
play long time !
Hmm, ok :) My english is horrible :P

Latchezar

--- Afmmjr@aol.com a �crit�: > In a message dated
9/23/01 2:16:52 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> latchezar_d@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> > And I don't like breaking my ears with other
> > divisions of the octave...In the opera, i still
> use
> > the conventional temperament and would like to
> keep my
> > references :)))
> >
> >
>
> There was once a time when I could not hear an exact
> quartertone. Playing
> the bassoon, which is hard enough to play in a true
> 12-tone equal
> temperament, I found the exact placement of a
> quartertone made me feel ill,
> queasy. I was really worried that I would soon lose
> my references, as well.
> Maybe it's akin to being car sick.
>
> But you get over it. 12-tET does not have to be
> your only reference to
> continue to play it exceptionally well. Actually,
> if you let your
> perspectives wander, you'll play conventional
> "vanilla" tuning even better.
>
> Best, Johnny Reinhard
>

___________________________________________________________
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--- In tuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_28447.html#28451

> --- In tuning@y..., "John Starrett" <jstarret@c...> wrote:
> > I like it quite a bit myself, and I am not at all bothered by the
> > quarter tone runs as Jon is.
>
> And that, in a nutshell, is all that matters: some don't like it,
but
> some do. And it doesn't hurt to give it a listen...
>
> Jon

OK... geez... I've been posting too much, but I have to say, in the
overall, I liked this composer, although I was a little disappointed
that he was only using 1/4 tones, and they seemed a bit "grafted on"
to a regular 12-tET fabric at times...

______ ________ ________
Joseph Pehrson

In a message dated 9/23/01 10:15:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
latchezar_d@yahoo.com writes:

> :)))
> No way! Sorry...
>
> I have my proper conception of "JI" and "good
> temperament" !
> That is'nt ET12 !

Question: could you play exactly in ET12 if you want to...or is it too
unmusical and you have never tried?

> And I'm free with my violin when I play :)
> Here I have listen many many exemples and now I have
> my proper opitnion, but...I still continue to read and
> ...delete :))
> Try to listen any other 12 ET, not BACH !!!
>

Not sure what you mean here. Try to listen to Bach in Werckmeister chromatic
and you may hear more Bach than you presently do.

> ut not with only one instrumet- but each voice must
> use different instrument and you will understand how
> little is the harmonic argument...when the melodic is
> the leader !
>

Yes, I agree the melodic leads.

> speak not for "any " musician, for any one why had
> play long time !
>

I've played a long time. But I believe the French world has only allowed for
certain microtonal tunings to be used. Long ago I reported to this list that
the French think of Just Intonation as good equal temperament. Frankly, it's
one thing to play things accurately in a microtonal tuning. It is quite
another, even for the performer, to apperceive it like the people playing it
during the time of Bach.

> mm, ok :) My english is horrible :P
>
> Latchezar
>
>

My French is worse. :) Johnny

In response of John...

> Question: could you play exactly in ET12 if you want
> to...or is it too
> unmusical and you have never tried?
>

The ET12 is the best (for now) discovered compromis,
yes I can play using ET12 but I prefer to play using
my ears :)))
And every 2 years I retry to discover one better
temperament...one basic reference ET...For now I have
UT12 and NT12(most recently found). I work only with
the "K" numbers (multiplicator for the 1/2 ton)
But i see-in this forum-nobody is interested by any
ET...

> Not sure what you mean here. Try to listen to Bach
> in Werckmeister chromatic
> and you may hear more Bach than you presently do.
>

I mean everytime 12ET but not based on division of any
interval(not octave, not fifth, not any other...)
Between BACH and Cordier conceptions we could have lot
of 12ET's , don't we ?

> > ut not with only one instrumet- but each voice
> must
> > use different instrument and you will understand
> how
> > little is the harmonic argument...when the melodic
> is
> > the leader !
> >
>
> Yes, I agree the melodic leads.
>

Biting in vertical...why not ? The heart also pulse
and it's one of life's qualities :)

> But I believe the French
> world has only allowed for
> certain microtonal tunings to be used. Long ago I
> reported to this list that
> the French think of Just Intonation as good equal
> temperament. Frankly, it's
> one thing to play things accurately in a microtonal
> tuning. It is quite
> another, even for the performer, to apperceive it
> like the people playing it
> during the time of Bach.
>

I'm originaly bulgarian ;) In France before "only" 20
years...
I think that we can play today any past composition
with our recent instruments and conceptions...
And enjoy better...

Thanks for your attention

Dimitrov

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--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_28447.html#28451
>
>
> > --- In tuning@y..., "John Starrett" <jstarret@c...> wrote:
> > > I like it quite a bit myself, and I am not at all bothered by
the
> > > quarter tone runs as Jon is.
> >
> > And that, in a nutshell, is all that matters: some don't like it,
> but
> > some do. And it doesn't hurt to give it a listen...
> >
> > Jon
>
>
> OK... geez... I've been posting too much, but I have to say, in the
> overall, I liked this composer, although I was a little
disappointed
> that he was only using 1/4 tones, and they seemed a bit "grafted
on"
> to a regular 12-tET fabric at times...

This composer uses JI, not 12-tET . . . Anyway, I agree with your
criticism, though from the composer's remarks on his website, it
appears he views this as a temporary "stage" he must go through,
before exploring a freer use of the microtones . . .

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_28447.html#28544

> This composer uses JI, not 12-tET . . . Anyway, I agree with your
> criticism, though from the composer's remarks on his website, it
> appears he views this as a temporary "stage" he must go through,
> before exploring a freer use of the microtones . . .

Oh.... Well, in any case, I enjoyed it. On the broad spectrum, it
probably is a bit more in the "conservative" xenharmonic camp, but
that's fine in my book, since there really isn't all that much
material of that kind around... Or at least *I* haven't heard it...

__________ ________ _________
Joseph Pehrson

Dimitrov stated...

> But i see-in this forum-nobody is interested by any
> ET...

Some say no-one in this forum is interested in any JI.
I saw posts today about 31, 19, 72, mentions of a piece
in 17. Some of these are even good for traditional
Western music as well as other types...

>
> I'm originaly bulgarian ;) In France before "only" 20
> years...
> I think that we can play today any past composition
> with our recent instruments and conceptions...
> And enjoy better...
>

I'm not terribly sure about this. I really like some of the
"original instruments" recordings. The pianoforte is much
less heavy than the modern day piano and those screechy old
violins, viola-de-gamba etc have a lot of character that
seems to have been squeezed out of the instruments and
or playing techniques that are being used today.

Also, there is a lot of Balkan music (pardon my ignorance
but doesn't that touch Bulgaria) which is neither played
on common Western instruments nor tuned in 12et. Although
I have nothing against tuning experiments, I don't think
this music will benefit from the compromises of 12.

Bob Valentine

--- In tuning@y..., Latchezar Dimitrov <latchezar_d@y...> wrote:
> But i see-in this forum-nobody is interested by any ET...

That isn't at all correct. While they aren't of much interest to
*me*, there a number of people on this tuning list that are involved
in various ET's. 22ET and 31ET seem common, and I know one member has
done a fair amount of music in 19ET. Not to mention that ET's are
only one broad area in a wide array of tuning options.

Jon

Ok, Jon :)

I mean 12ET's...
We have lot of 12ET's , no ?

Dimitrov

--- Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM> a �crit�: > --- In
tuning@y..., Latchezar Dimitrov
> <latchezar_d@y...> wrote:
> > But i see-in this forum-nobody is interested by
> any ET...
>
> That isn't at all correct. While they aren't of much
> interest to
> *me*, there a number of people on this tuning list
> that are involved
> in various ET's. 22ET and 31ET seem common, and I
> know one member has
> done a fair amount of music in 19ET. Not to mention
> that ET's are
> only one broad area in a wide array of tuning
> options.
>
> Jon
>
>

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--- In tuning@y..., Latchezar Dimitrov <latchezar_d@y...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_28447.html#28670

> Ok, Jon :)
>
> I mean 12ET's...
> We have lot of 12ET's , no ?
>
> Dimitrov
>

My impression, Latch, is that there is plenty of it...

_________ _______ _______
Joseph Pehrson