the bad part

Well, the bad part would be that if it is true that it is totally
unverifiable that inharmonic timbres sound best in the scales that
are created from the ratios of those timbres, except for the fact
that Bill Sethares says it's so... that means that, fundamentially,
Bill's idea of relating tuning to timbre doesn't work... except in
the most general sense as a new method of scale creation...but not
necessarily an imperative to play the new scales in the timbres from
whence they were derived!

Gee, I sure hope Bill Sethares isn't reading this... Hi Bill! :)

_______ _______ ________
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
> Well, the bad part would be that if it is true that it is totally
> unverifiable that inharmonic timbres sound best in the scales that
> are created from the ratios of those timbres, except for the fact
> that Bill Sethares says it's so...

It works to a certain extent . . . have you heard his examples? It's
a creative idea that can bear much musical fruit, if nothing else.
And remember the harmonic entropy tetrad listening examples we did,
and the implications for Sethares' theory?

> that means that, fundamentially,
> Bill's idea of relating tuning to timbre doesn't work... except in
> the most general sense as a new method of scale creation...but not
> necessarily an imperative to play the new scales in the timbres
from
> whence they were derived!

Well, nothing's imperative in music! But why else would you want to
play these new scales, other than to use the timbre from which they
were derived? Do they appeal to you in some other way?

:)))

Je me demande... si un piano sonne mieux avec des
cordes qui sont neuves ?
Et autre chose-si j'utilise des sinusoides pour
experimenter un temperament est-ce que les resultats
serraient differents avec des sample-waves dent de
scie ou bien carrees ?

Dimitrov

--- jpehrson@rcn.com a �crit�: > Well, the bad part
would be that if it is true that
> it is totally
> unverifiable that inharmonic timbres sound best in
> the scales that
> are created from the ratios of those timbres, except
> for the fact
> that Bill Sethares says it's so... that means that,
> fundamentially,
> Bill's idea of relating tuning to timbre doesn't
> work... except in
> the most general sense as a new method of scale
> creation...but not
> necessarily an imperative to play the new scales in
> the timbres from
> whence they were derived!
>
> Gee, I sure hope Bill Sethares isn't reading this...
> Hi Bill! :)
>
> _______ _______ ________
> Joseph Pehrson
>
>
>
>
>

___________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!? -- Un e-mail gratuit @yahoo.fr !
Yahoo! Courrier : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_28025.html#28036

> It works to a certain extent . . . have you heard his examples?
It's a creative idea that can bear much musical fruit, if nothing
else.
> And remember the harmonic entropy tetrad listening examples we did,
> and the implications for Sethares' theory?
>

But there were no scales there, only tetrads... I guess you mean
that the otonal tetrads had their own particular kind of "smoothness"
that might be present with tetrads created in scales with inharmonic
partials... ??

>
> Well, nothing's imperative in music! But why else would you want to
> play these new scales, other than to use the timbre from which they
> were derived? Do they appeal to you in some other way?

Well, Herman Miller was alluding to this, too, a bit in his
comment... Maybe they would sound just as good in a harmonic
timbre... one would have to try them out, yes??

_________ _______ _________
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_28025.html#28036
>
>
> > It works to a certain extent . . . have you heard his examples?
> It's a creative idea that can bear much musical fruit, if nothing
> else.
> > And remember the harmonic entropy tetrad listening examples we
did,
> > and the implications for Sethares' theory?
> >
>
> But there were no scales there, only tetrads... I guess you mean
> that the otonal tetrads had their own particular kind
of "smoothness"
> that might be present with tetrads created in scales with
inharmonic
> partials... ??

What I mean is that Sethares' theory would imply that 4:5:6:7 and 1/
(7:6:5:4), or in fact any chord and its mirror inverse, should be
about equally consonant. But what we found was that everyone placed
4:5:6:7 near the top of their rankings, while 1/(7:6:5:4) fell closer
to the bottom.
> >
> > Well, nothing's imperative in music! But why else would you want
to
> > play these new scales, other than to use the timbre from which
they
> > were derived? Do they appeal to you in some other way?
>
> Well, Herman Miller was alluding to this, too, a bit in his
> comment... Maybe they would sound just as good in a harmonic
> timbre... one would have to try them out, yes??

Sure . . . there are limitless possibilities to try out . . .

--- In tuning@y..., Latchezar Dimitrov <latchezar_d@y...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_28025.html#28065

> :)))
>
> Je me demande... si un piano sonne mieux avec des
> cordes qui sont neuves ?

[Latch is asking here if I believe that the piano, with it's
inharmonicity sounds better with "new" chords than with traditional
ones...]

Frankly, Latch, I believe it does. I've never been that enamored of
traditional "harmonic" chords on the piano. There is a good reason
the piano is classified as a "percussion" instrument.

I think the true nature of the piano comes out in modern "percussive"
works, like Boulez piano sonatas and such like...

By the way, I would say Stockhausen, but after what he said about the
World Trade Center disaster (great art!) I am boycotting all his
works and performances... [and I met him in the late 1970's!]

> Et autre chose-si j'utilise des sinusoides pour
> experimenter un temperament est-ce que les resultats
> serraient differents avec des sample-waves dent de
> scie ou bien carrees ?
>

[Latch is asking if temperaments would be different if experiments
were done in sawtooth or square waves as contrasted with sine
waves...]

Well certainly... I believe the effects of temperaments would vary
greatly depending on the kind of timbres used. Paul Erlich reminded
me there with sine waves there isn't even any way to tune by
beating... since the beating is from the combined partials, not the
fundamental....

_______ _______ __________
Joseph Pehrson

> > Je me demande... si un piano sonne mieux avec des cordes qui sont
> > neuves ?

...new strings...

Clark

--- In tuning@y..., Clark <CACCOLA@N...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_28025.html#28374

> > > Je me demande... si un piano sonne mieux avec des cordes qui
sont
> > > neuves ?
>
> ...new strings...
>
>
> Clark

You're right, Clark... Sorry.... my error.

_______ _______ _____
Joseph Pehrson