What would become of 12+19?

One of the biggest problems if more different systems of tuning would become popular with a larger crowd of musicians,are the conflicts that would occur when people using different tunings meet and attempt to play together.No doubt they can't always keep to one and the same(tuning system)for these events,rather they will just have to stick to somehow interpreting what the other plays in their own tuning.So what will become of that,say 12 and 19 tone equal instruments combining,in a longer drawn musical sense?

I don't know.I'm not particularly interested in combining multiple systems myself-(that's because i'm still exploring the perplexing enough possibilites of individual systems)but no doubt it will happen,and who knows what may come?We'll just see what will happen with it,in a longer perspective...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
MATS �LJARE
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/oljare

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--- In tuning@y..., "Mats Öljare" <oljare@h...> wrote:
> One of the biggest problems if more different systems of tuning
would become
> popular with a larger crowd of musicians,are the conflicts that
would occur
> when people using different tunings meet and attempt to play
together.No
> doubt they can't always keep to one and the same(tuning system)for
these
> events,rather they will just have to stick to somehow interpreting
what the
> other plays in their own tuning.So what will become of that,say 12
and 19
> tone equal instruments combining,in a longer drawn musical sense?
>
> I don't know.I'm not particularly interested in combining multiple
systems
> myself-(that's because i'm still exploring the perplexing enough
> possibilites of individual systems)but no doubt it will happen,and
who knows
> what may come?We'll just see what will happen with it,in a longer
> perspective...
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> MATS ÖLJARE
> http://www.angelfire.com/mo/oljare

Hi Mats. I imagine we will have the same sort of problems we have now
when rock musicians try to jam with jazz musicians try to jam with
classical musicians try to jam with indian musicians... only in the
tuning area. As a fretless player it is not as much a problem for me,
but that is an interesting point.

John Starrett

Actually Paul E has some experience in this area, as his band Mad Duxx
plays some with 12tet and 22tet at the same time. This is the sort of
thing Johnny R would be able to speak on. Haverstick once brought his
19tet guitar to a 12tet choir concert by accident. Luckily there were
no other instruments but guitar and voice, and the performance went
smoothly.

John Starrett

--- In tuning@y..., "Mats Öljare" <oljare@h...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_26780.html#26780

> One of the biggest problems if more different systems of tuning
would become
> popular with a larger crowd of musicians,are the conflicts that
would occur
> when people using different tunings meet and attempt to play
together.No
> doubt they can't always keep to one and the same(tuning system)for
these
> events,rather they will just have to stick to somehow interpreting
what the
> other plays in their own tuning.So what will become of that,say 12
and 19
> tone equal instruments combining,in a longer drawn musical sense?
>
> I don't know.I'm not particularly interested in combining multiple
systems
> myself-(that's because i'm still exploring the perplexing enough
> possibilites of individual systems)but no doubt it will happen,and
who knows
> what may come?We'll just see what will happen with it,in a longer
> perspective...
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> MATS ÖLJARE
> http://www.angelfire.com/mo/oljare
>

Hi Mats!

Well, everybody, then should use 72-tET, because if they
get "frustrated" they can retreat right back to 12-tET without doing
anything!

_________ ________ _______
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., "John Starrett" <jstarret@c...> wrote:
> Actually Paul E has some experience in this area, as his band Mad
Duxx
> plays some with 12tet and 22tet at the same time. This is the sort
of
> thing Johnny R would be able to speak on. Haverstick once brought
his
> 19tet guitar to a 12tet choir concert by accident. Luckily there
were
> no other instruments but guitar and voice, and the performance went
> smoothly.

Combining two tuning systems can work well, and even be magical due
to the very small microtonal intervals that result, When working in a
dronal context, with the two tuning systems sharing a common drone,
each instrument can utilize scales based on that tonic, and the
effect is very nice. For diatonic music, 31-tET and 12-tET can work
together well in C major if the central note, D, is tuned identically
for both. The farther you get from C major, the larger the
discrepancy between 31-tET and 12-tET will be, and the more out-of-
tune it will sound.

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_26780.html#26830

> --- In tuning@y..., "John Starrett" <jstarret@c...> wrote:
> > Actually Paul E has some experience in this area, as his band Mad
> Duxx
> > plays some with 12tet and 22tet at the same time. This is the
sort
> of
> > thing Johnny R would be able to speak on. Haverstick once brought
> his
> > 19tet guitar to a 12tet choir concert by accident. Luckily there
> were
> > no other instruments but guitar and voice, and the performance
went
> > smoothly.
>
> Combining two tuning systems can work well, and even be magical due
> to the very small microtonal intervals that result, When working in
a
> dronal context, with the two tuning systems sharing a common drone,
> each instrument can utilize scales based on that tonic, and the
> effect is very nice. For diatonic music, 31-tET and 12-tET can work
> together well in C major if the central note, D, is tuned
identically
> for both. The farther you get from C major, the larger the
> discrepancy between 31-tET and 12-tET will be, and the more out-of-
> tune it will sound.

Hi Paul...

I hate to be a pest, but could you please show me exactly how this
works... So you're tuning the "D" the same in the two systems??

Thanks!

_________ ________ _______
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
>
> Hi Paul...
>
> I hate to be a pest, but could you please show me exactly how this
> works... So you're tuning the "D" the same in the two systems??
>
> Thanks!

Yes, if D is the same between 31-tET and 12-tET, then all the "white
notes" are pretty close between the two systems -- the maximum
discrepancy is for B and F, which are less than 9 cents different in
the two systems. Good enough for rock and roll (and probably for
Renaissance music, when lutes were in 12-tET, and keyboards were in
meantone, typically around 31-tET).