Looking for Synthesizer.....

Greetings:

I was wondering if any of you could help me on this one. I am
looking for an 88-weighted key MIDI compatible digital synthesizer
for a price of $1000 or less. It must be able to work well with
computer tuning software via MIDI. Some good programmed sounds would
be nice, but nothing too elaborate. This should keep the price
reasonable. Please contact me via email (PageWizard17@aol.com)if you
have any helpful knowledge in this area. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Brent

--- In tuning@y..., "PageWizard, Magician of the Caverns"
/tuning/topicId_26514.html#26514

<PageWizard17@a...> wrote:
> Greetings:
>
> I was wondering if any of you could help me on this one. I am
> looking for an 88-weighted key MIDI compatible digital synthesizer
> for a price of $1000 or less. It must be able to work well with
> computer tuning software via MIDI. Some good programmed sounds
would
> be nice, but nothing too elaborate. This should keep the price
> reasonable. Please contact me via email (PageWizard17@a...)if you
> have any helpful knowledge in this area. Thank you.
>
> Sincerely,
> Brent

My personal feeling is that it's better to get a nice 88-note
keyboard *without* any sounds in it... just a "MIDI out" driver. I
believe one can save quite a bit of money that way. Then, you can
just add whatever modular synths you want, new or used. In the
meantime, some things can be done just with the computer sound card...

I recently purchased one for less than $500 and it's just great,
since it feels like a "real" piano now, and is more like my "regular"
composing situation at the old-fashioned piano, except that with the
earphones the apartment neighbors don't complain (!)

Although they're not "state of the art" and are more "legacy"
items... I am using now a couple of TX81Z's... which can be purchased
used for under $200 each... Even less if you're lucky. I managed to
find both of them in Web searches.

Although the TX81Z is a "legacy" item, one can't say so much for
current "state of the art" equipment as far as tuning is concerned.
Manuel op de Coul was even saying that now Yamaha is making synths
NON-tunable...

Marketing guys again...

_______ ________ ______
Joseph Pehrson

> From: <jpehrson@rcn.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 11:42 AM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Looking for Synthesizer.....
>
>
> Although the TX81Z is a "legacy" item, one can't say so much for
> current "state of the art" equipment as far as tuning is concerned.
> Manuel op de Coul was even saying that now Yamaha is making synths
> NON-tunable...
>
> Marketing guys again...

Well, how about that?! And this is from the company which
claims to have "patented" 19-EDO!!!

love / peace / harmony ...

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

At 06:42 PM 7/29/01 +0000, Joseph Pehrson

wrote:
>My personal feeling is that it's better to get a nice 88-note
>keyboard *without* any sounds in it... just a "MIDI out" driver. I
>believe one can save quite a bit of money that way. Then, you can
>just add whatever modular synths you want, new or used. In the
>meantime, some things can be done just with the computer sound card...
>
>I recently purchased one for less than $500 and it's just great,
>since it feels like a "real" piano now, and is more like my "regular"
>composing situation at the old-fashioned piano, except that with the
>earphones the apartment neighbors don't complain (!)

I wonder if people could make recommendations about what are the good choices in this department? I have been looking for something for several years, and never could get sufficiently focused to make a decision. I would probably we satisfied with 61 notes, FWIW. I am located out in the boonies, where it is not easy to get "hands on" demos of this stuff, so I have to depend to recommendations.

I would add that I am a newbie on the list, and I have a couple of other questions. The first one is the exact location of the FAQ that has been mentioned several times the past few days. Also, I would like to know more about synth modules, although I would guess that these are discussed in the FAQ, or maybe there is a separate FAQ on that subject. I got a Roland SC55 a few years ago, which I set up to explore historical temperaments using the keyboard on my Roland EP-9 and software on the PC. I don't like the feel of that kbd, and would like to upgrade to something better. My main objective at the moment is to play late Baroque, classical, and early Romantic in historical temps. Also, I suspect that the SC55 has capabilities that I have not exploited, and I would like to know about appropriate software for doing that, if it exists. For example, is it possible to change tuning "on the fly" with the SC55, as in adaptive tempering? Finally, any suggestions about free-ware and cheap-ware for Linux, which is another of my distractions at the moment?

Thanks,

James Bunch

--- In tuning@y..., James <jmkh@u...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_26514.html#26544

>
> I wonder if people could make recommendations about what are the
good choices in this department? I have been looking for something
for several years, and never could get sufficiently focused to make
a decision. I would probably we satisfied with 61 notes, FWIW. I
am located out in the boonies, where it is not easy to get "hands
on" demos of this stuff, so I have to depend to recommendations.
>

I'm very happy with something called "Studio Logic" which is 88 keys,
and seems like a "real" piano to me.... except that it's playing the
Blackjack scale at the moment.

I bought it at Sam Ash here in New York, but you can probably mail
order it. It's under $500! It's just a midi "driver," no sounds in
it, but so much the better, and *cheaper...*

Actually, I see you can actually order it from the Web:

http://www.samash.com/

> I would add that I am a newbie on the list, and I have a couple of
other questions. The first one is the exact location of the FAQ that
has been mentioned several times the past few days.

The "mother of all lists" is maintained by Robert Walker and includes
a link to the FAQ:

/Tuning2

Also, I would like to know more
> about synth modules, although I would guess that these are
discussed in the FAQ, or maybe there is a separate FAQ on that
subject.

There isn't, unfortunately, at present. The best reference is John
Lofflink's site:

http://home.att.net/~microtonal/micro_af.html

And even better than ANY KIND OF FAQ is John Starrett's microtonal
site, which is the ne plus ultra of ANY microtonal site on the Web.

It has *everything!*

http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/microtone.html

I got a Roland SC55
> a few years ago, which I set up to explore historical temperaments
using the keyboard on my Roland EP-9 and software on the PC. I don't
like the feel of that kbd, and would like to upgrade to something
better.

Try this inexpensive Studio Logic keyboard... I play baroque stuff
on it, and it feels like a "real" piano... but also things like
Chopin, Schumann go quite nicely. I don't have the strongest base on
it at the moment, so it kind of "jiggles around..." but that could be
remedied, if it needed to be. Frankly, I use the keyboard mostly for
composing, and still a "real" piano for historical music... but then,
again, I'm not trying to approach historical music in performance
with the "correct" alternate tunings... But this one would work for
that, too, if you get it on a strong base...

Finally, any suggestions about free-ware and cheap-ware for
> Linux, which is another of my distractions at the moment?
>

Well, CSOUND handles all these platforms and it's free. I *still*
haven't found time to learn it... It's a substantial time commitment:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-books/csound/frontpage.html

________ _______ ______
Joseph Pehrson

> From: James <jmkh@uswest.net>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Looking for Synthesizer.....
>
>
> At 06:42 PM 7/29/01 +0000, Joseph Pehrson
>
> wrote:
> > My personal feeling is that it's better to get a nice 88-note
> > keyboard *without* any sounds in it... just a "MIDI out" driver. I
> > believe one can save quite a bit of money that way. Then, you can
> > just add whatever modular synths you want, new or used. In the
> > meantime, some things can be done just with the computer sound card...
> >
> > I recently purchased one for less than $500 and it's just great,
> > since it feels like a "real" piano now, and is more like my "regular"
> > composing situation at the old-fashioned piano, except that with the
> > earphones the apartment neighbors don't complain (!)
>
>
> I wonder if people could make recommendations about what are the good
> choices in this department? I have been looking for something for several
> years, and never could get sufficiently focused to make a decision. I
> would probably we satisfied with 61 notes, FWIW. I am located out in the
> boonies, where it is not easy to get "hands on" demos of this stuff, so I
> have to depend to recommendations.

Hi James, and welcome to the Tuning List.

I agree completely with Joe Pehrson. My musical equipment right now
is very minimal, but about a decade ago I bought a used Fatar 88-key
controller for about $500, and loved it. And this, from a company
I'd never heard of before! (and back then I used to read "Keyboard"
magazine and stay on top of new gear)

I'm making do right now with a very cheap Yamaha 61-key keyboard,
which lacks even MIDI ports. But there's no comparison to the feel
and useability of a piano-like 88-key board. I say go for that.

Probably have a good chance of snagging a good buy on Ebay.
Or read your local "Pennysaver" newspaper (or the equivalent).
It surprises me how often decent used musical gear turns up
in the one I receive in my mail every week.

love / peace / harmony ...

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

At 09:24 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Monz wrote and Joseph wrote with regard to the 88-note Fatar.

Any possibility of a current model number? I don't find one for the "Less than $500" figure quoted by Joseph. Also, in reading up on these things, I am a bit confused about what is meant by a "controller." These seem to have some voice generation capability built in, unless I am misinterpreting what I read.

Thanks,

James

> >
> > At 06:42 PM 7/29/01 +0000, Joseph Pehrson
> >
> > wrote:
> > > My personal feeling is that it's better to get a nice 88-note
> > > keyboard *without* any sounds in it... just a "MIDI out" driver. I
> > > believe one can save quite a bit of money that way. Then, you can
> > > just add whatever modular synths you want, new or used. In the
> > > meantime, some things can be done just with the computer sound card...
> > >
> > > I recently purchased one for less than $500 and it's just great,
> > > since it feels like a "real" piano now, and is more like my "regular"
> > > composing situation at the old-fashioned piano, except that with the
> > > earphones the apartment neighbors don't complain (!)
> >
> >
> > I wonder if people could make recommendations about what are the good
> > choices in this department? I have been looking for something for several
> > years, and never could get sufficiently focused to make a decision. I
> > would probably we satisfied with 61 notes, FWIW. I am located out in the
> > boonies, where it is not easy to get "hands on" demos of this stuff, so I
> > have to depend to recommendations.
>
>
>Hi James, and welcome to the Tuning List.
>
>I agree completely with Joe Pehrson. My musical equipment right now
>is very minimal, but about a decade ago I bought a used Fatar 88-key
>controller for about $500, and loved it. And this, from a company
>I'd never heard of before! (and back then I used to read "Keyboard"
>magazine and stay on top of new gear)
>
>I'm making do right now with a very cheap Yamaha 61-key keyboard,
>which lacks even MIDI ports. But there's no comparison to the feel
>and useability of a piano-like 88-key board. I say go for that.
>
>Probably have a good chance of snagging a good buy on Ebay.
>Or read your local "Pennysaver" newspaper (or the equivalent).
>It surprises me how often decent used musical gear turns up
>in the one I receive in my mail every week.
>
>
>
>love / peace / harmony ...
>
>-monz
>http://www.monz.org
>"All roads lead to n^0"
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
>email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
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>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> From: James <jmkh@uswest.net>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 8:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Looking for Synthesizer.....
>
>
> At 09:24 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Monz wrote and Joseph wrote with regard to the
> 88-note Fatar.
>
> Any possibility of a current model number? I don't find one for the "Less
> than $500" figure quoted by Joseph. Also, in reading up on these things,
I
> am a bit confused about what is meant by a "controller." These seem to
> have some voice generation capability built in, unless I am
misinterpreting
> what I read.

Sorry, I haven't kept on top of new keyboard products for several
years now, so I don't have any model numbers handy.

By "controller", I always mean a keyboard which has only MIDI-command
output, and no audio output at all. AFAIK, this is standard usage.

It's quite possible that keyboard manufacturer's have changed the
way they use this term during the years that I haven't been paying
attention! :) Perhaps now they say "controller" even with keyboards
which *do* produce audio, if their primary use is as a controller
... I don't know.

love / peace / harmony ...

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In tuning@y..., James <jmkh@u...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_26514.html#26571

> At 09:24 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Monz wrote and Joseph wrote with regard
to the
> 88-note Fatar.
>
> Any possibility of a current model number? I don't find one for
the "Less
> than $500" figure quoted by Joseph. Also, in reading up on these
things, I
> am a bit confused about what is meant by a "controller." These
seem to
> have some voice generation capability built in, unless I am
misinterpreting
> what I read.
>
> Thanks,
>
> James
>

Hello James!

No, personally, *I* was not talking about the "Fatar," but of a MIDI
piano-keyboard controller build by "Studio Logic" for under $500
(well about $499.99) that really does have the touch and feel of
a "real" piano... only you need a strong stand.

It's available thorough Sam Ash... I just got one:

www.samash.com

A month ago, when I bought this keyboard, they were still refering to
a "controller" as something with only a MIDI out and no voices.

At a place like Sam Ash, though, they always mention to you before
you go out the door "Do you know this thing doesn't make a sound,
that there are no sounds in it??"

Probably some people buy them for the lower price and then get them
home to find out there are no MIDI voices in them.... :)

_________ _________ ________
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., James <jmkh@u...> wrote:
> At 09:24 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Monz wrote and Joseph wrote with regard
to the
> 88-note Fatar.
>
> Any possibility of a current model number? I don't find one for
the "Less
> than $500" figure quoted by Joseph.

He probably got it used. I got mine a few years ago for $400, and
it's now in the shop for repairs. I believe it's called the "STUDIO
90".

> Also, in reading up on these things, I
> am a bit confused about what is meant by a "controller." These
seem to
> have some voice generation capability built in, unless I am
misinterpreting
> what I read.

They don't -- they're strictly a triggering device. Some offboard
sound generating device must be provided.

At 07:02 PM 7/31/01 +0000, Paul wrote:
>--- In tuning@y..., James <jmkh@u...> wrote:
> > At 09:24 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Monz wrote and Joseph wrote with regard
>to the
> > 88-note Fatar.
> >
> > Any possibility of a current model number? I don't find one for
>the "Less
> > than $500" figure quoted by Joseph.
>
>He probably got it used. I got mine a few years ago for $400, and
>it's now in the shop for repairs. I believe it's called the "STUDIO
>90".

Thanks. e-bay, here I come!

> > Also, in reading up on these things, I
> > am a bit confused about what is meant by a "controller." These
>seem to
> > have some voice generation capability built in, unless I am
>misinterpreting
> > what I read.
>
>They don't -- they're strictly a triggering device. Some offboard
>sound generating device must be provided.

That's what I thought. So I think some mfgrs are using the term a little loosely.

Thanks.

JB

>
>You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
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>
>
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Some of my friends have good experience with
http://www.zzounds.com

Haresh.

--- In tuning@y..., James <jmkh@u...> wrote:
> At 07:02 PM 7/31/01 +0000, Paul wrote:
> >--- In tuning@y..., James <jmkh@u...> wrote:
> > > At 09:24 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Monz wrote and Joseph wrote with
regard
> >to the
> > > 88-note Fatar.
> > >
> > > Any possibility of a current model number? I don't find one for
> >the "Less
> > > than $500" figure quoted by Joseph.
> >
> >He probably got it used. I got mine a few years ago for $400, and
> >it's now in the shop for repairs. I believe it's called the "STUDIO
> >90".
>
>
> Thanks. e-bay, here I come!
>
>
>
> > > Also, in reading up on these things, I
> > > am a bit confused about what is meant by a "controller." These
> >seem to
> > > have some voice generation capability built in, unless I am
> >misinterpreting
> > > what I read.
> >
> >They don't -- they're strictly a triggering device. Some offboard
> >sound generating device must be provided.
>
>
> That's what I thought. So I think some mfgrs are using the term a
little
> loosely.
>
> Thanks.
>
> JB
>
>
>
> >
> >You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe
through
> >email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> > tuning-subscribe@y... - join the tuning group.
> > tuning-unsubscribe@y... - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> > tuning-nomail@y... - put your email message delivery on hold
> > for the tuning group.
> > tuning-digest@y... - change your subscription to daily
> > digest mode.
> > tuning-normal@y... - change your subscription to individual
> > emails.
> > tuning-help@y... - receive general help information.
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/