Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Truth

I'm writing this message to reveal truth.

First, I did ban Paul Erlich from the Practical Microtonality Group.
I apologize to all who have tired to make something out of this that
it is not, and this is an effort to *reveal truth* and quell what I
see as some brewing hostility about this issue.

The reasons why I banned Paul Erlich are as follows:

A. Paul Erlich, did not come and subscribe to the Practical
Microtonality Group, to join in and participate in Microtonal Music
making, and the sharing process that we have started there.

B. Paul Erlich, subscribed to the Practical Microtonality Group,
and feeling that some of the things that had been said there were
about him, when *in factual truth* his name was never mentioned in
any post there; proceeded to contact members privately, to voice his
disapproval and ask for explanations from them.

This is the truth.

I would like to ask a number of you, to step into my position for a
second, and let me give you a hypothetical situation to contemplate:

Imagine if you were to undertake something such as I, and start a
group of the nature, which I have openly revealed from the start in
this forum - and I (although the thought could never occur to me), or
someone, were to come to your group, without any real intention to
join in the spirit and purpose there, and read things there *where
their name was never mentioned* - then derive some feeling that these
things were being said about them, and go on to use the email
addresses of the members there to, contact them privately for
explanations about what they said in your new forum, which even at
the greatest stretch, were nothing more than metaphorical in nature.

How would you interpret this?

How would you react to this? Especially if you had been using the
word "friend" to describe this person?

How would this make you feel?

Perhaps to answer this question properly, you would indeed have to be
me, and have the feeling that at every single minute step of the way,
that you had been open and forthcoming and honest about forming this
new community, along with carefully outlining its intent and purpose.

My reaction, and my feeling was that it was done for no good purpose.
But as I hope all of you know, where I may have made a mistake or
perhaps acted too quickly, I also know how to humbly say when I was
wrong.

Please try to understand me on this. And understand how awkward it is
to have to bring this into the public light. But I did what I thought
was right. I did what I thought was right, because I felt that as
this thing was just getting the ground under its feet, it was
important to keep these kinds of hidden activities in check for the
benefit all of the members who have joined in a real spirit of
sincerity, and to actually partake in the purpose there.

If I did misunderstand, and if I did act too quickly, then I
apologize to all, because at the bottom of everything - I am a flawed
human being. I wish it were possible to act in a perfect manner in
all I do, but this is not always possible, as evidenced by this
writing. Perhaps some will relate when I say, that sometimes one must
act on principle - and to judge what another feels they must do in
acting from this place in themselves, is to fall short of standing in
their shoes, and thus gaining their unique perspective on acting in
the moment.

With this message, I will remove myself from this forum for a while,
perhaps permanently. The simple things that I have wished to become
involved in, and put my energy into, involve a feeling of open
sharing, and a sense of community and purpose, where all participants
are on the same level. This is not to say that this is not
flourishing here for many, but as I look over the past few days of
what has been said here, I must further admit my serious skepticism
about if it really does include me.

Finally, let me say that I hold no hard feelings toward anyone here,
and wish you all well. Perhaps I will return to share sometime in the
future, but right now, I feel it best to remove my influence here for
all of those who may prefer it this way.

Kindest Blessings,

Jacky Ligon

🔗Kees van Prooijen <kees@dnai.com>

🔗robertinventor@hotmail.com

🔗Kees van Prooijen <kees@dnai.com>

Approaching someone off list spamming ????
Being banned for not posting ????

----- Original Message -----
From: <robertinventor@hotmail.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 5:25 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Truth

> Hi there,
>
> Surely what Jacky is saying is that Paul was banned from
> practicalmicrotonality for spamming
> - using the list of e-mail addresses for the group to write
> to members, with no intention of participating in it,
> and doing it in such a way as to be a nuisance to the
> members concerned.
>
> If so, seems fair enough to me, assuming it is true.
>
> And, I believe it because I'm sure of Jacky's sincerity!
>
> I can affirm that Paul made no posts to the new list, and
> that he also has nothing to worry about in anything anyone
> might have said there as regards his reputation!
>
> Paul, you have nothing to worry about and don't need to resort
> to this kind of thing!
>
> Robert
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold
for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

🔗Ed Borasky <znmeb@aracnet.com>

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> I'm writing this message to reveal truth.
>
> First, I did ban Paul Erlich from the Practical Microtonality
Group.
> I apologize to all who have tired to make something out of this
that
> it is not, and this is an effort to *reveal truth* and quell what I
> see as some brewing hostility about this issue.
>
>
> The reasons why I banned Paul Erlich are as follows:
>
> A. Paul Erlich, did not come and subscribe to the Practical
> Microtonality Group, to join in and participate in Microtonal Music
> making, and the sharing process that we have started there.
>
> B. Paul Erlich, subscribed to the Practical Microtonality Group,
> and feeling that some of the things that had been said there were
> about him, when *in factual truth* his name was never mentioned in
> any post there; proceeded to contact members privately, to voice
his
> disapproval and ask for explanations from them.

And you know what his intentions were how??

Well, folks, I'm gonna unsubscribe from "Practical Microtonality" if
that's the way decisions are made over there. Glad you all had a
chance to see me there.
--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, Chief Scientist, Borasky Research
http://www.borasky-research.net http://www.aracnet.com/~znmeb
mailto:znmeb@borasky-research.com mailto:znmeb@aracnet.com

If there's nothing to astrology, how come so many famous men were
born on holidays?

🔗Robert Greco <robgreco@hotmail.com>

🔗nanom3@home.com

> But as I hope all of you know, where I may have made a mistake or
> perhaps acted too quickly, I also know how to humbly say when I was
> wrong.
>
.
My experience in life is that it is rare, very rare, that what one
person thinks they said is what another person hears. And although
relatively new to this list, I've watched far worse blowups on other
lists.

So Jacky interpreted Paul's actions in a way that most others don't
share. He says he probably was hasty .

I don't see any reason to shun either person involved, or either
group. People make mistakes. And then hopefully they communicate ,
learn something and are off to their next adventure, or misadventure,
as life will have it.

I've never gained anything from staying mad and resentful at another
human, especially when they are willing to communicate.

Thats my perspective,
Mary

🔗David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>

ligonj@northstate.net wrote:

> B. Paul Erlich, subscribed to the Practical Microtonality Group,
> and feeling that some of the things that had been said there were
> about him, when *in factual truth* his name was never mentioned in
> any post there; proceeded to contact members privately, to voice his
> disapproval and ask for explanations from them.

And although I didn't know this when I was making comments
to the Tuning list last night, I'm not suprised. The
Elrich Cult dominates the Tuning List. Notice how
they voiced strong opposition to the new list.

There's a pattern to people getting pissed off with the
volume of posts from the Elrich Cult in the past and quitting
the list. This is only the latest chapter.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

🔗paul@stretch-music.com

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> I'm writing this message to reveal truth.
>
> First, I did ban Paul Erlich from the Practical Microtonality Group.
> I apologize to all who have tired to make something out of this that
> it is not, and this is an effort to *reveal truth* and quell what I
> see as some brewing hostility about this issue.
>
>
> The reasons why I banned Paul Erlich are as follows:
>
> A. Paul Erlich, did not come and subscribe to the Practical
> Microtonality Group, to join in and participate in Microtonal Music
> making, and the sharing process that we have started there.
>
> B. Paul Erlich, subscribed to the Practical Microtonality Group,
> and feeling that some of the things that had been said there were
> about him, when *in factual truth* his name was never mentioned in
> any post there; proceeded to contact members privately, to voice his
> disapproval and ask for explanations from them.
>
> This is the truth.

This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE. I thought you had recanted on these outlandish accusations in
private e-mail, but I suppose now we have to air out your dirty laundry for everyone. I feel sorry
for everyone who has to put up with this nonsense on this list.
>
>
> I would like to ask a number of you, to step into my position for a
> second, and let me give you a hypothetical situation to contemplate:
>
> Imagine if you were to undertake something such as I, and start a
> group of the nature, which I have openly revealed from the start in
> this forum - and I (although the thought could never occur to me), or
> someone, were to come to your group, without any real intention to
> join in the spirit and purpose there, and read things there *where
> their name was never mentioned* - then derive some feeling that these
> things were being said about them, and go on to use the email
> addresses of the members there to, contact them privately for
> explanations about what they said in your new forum, which even at
> the greatest stretch, were nothing more than metaphorical in nature.

THIS NEVER HAPPENED. Never.

🔗paul@stretch-music.com

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., paul@s... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_23235.html#23305

> --- In tuning@y..., robertinventor@h... wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Surely what Jacky is saying is that Paul was banned from
> > practicalmicrotonality for spamming
> > - using the list of e-mail addresses for the group to write
> > to members, with no intention of participating in it,
> > and doing it in such a way as to be a nuisance to the
> > members concerned.
> >
> > If so, seems fair enough to me, assuming it is true.
> >
> > And, I believe it because I'm sure of Jacky's sincerity!
>
> Jacky is mistaken. Not only is he mistaken, but he's insiduously
spreading this lie. He first
> e-mailed me privately to make these accusations. I informed him of
what really had happened
> and asked for a retraction and apology, so that we could resume our
friendship. He agreed. Now
> he's not only going back on his retraction and apology, but
involving 450 other people in this
> nonsense.

Paul... the timing is off here... this was written BEFORE everything
got straightened out!

The rest of this should probably be on the "MetaTuning" list.

Actually, I thought this was kind of silly at first, but Graham is
really right... it is a nice forum for such "relaxed" or "personal"
discussions. That kind of communication *IS* important, just not on
THIS list.

Thanks Graham. Graham be as smart as we thunk he is...

________ ________ ______
Joseph Pehrson

🔗ligonj@northstate.net

--- In tuning@y..., paul@s... wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., robertinventor@h... wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Surely what Jacky is saying is that Paul was banned from
> > practicalmicrotonality for spamming
> > - using the list of e-mail addresses for the group to write
> > to members, with no intention of participating in it,
> > and doing it in such a way as to be a nuisance to the
> > members concerned.
> >
> > If so, seems fair enough to me, assuming it is true.
> >
> > And, I believe it because I'm sure of Jacky's sincerity!
>
> Jacky is mistaken. Not only is he mistaken, but he's insiduously
spreading this lie. He first
> e-mailed me privately to make these accusations. I informed him of
what really had happened
> and asked for a retraction and apology, so that we could resume our
friendship. He agreed. Now
> he's not only going back on his retraction and apology, but
involving 450 other people in this
> nonsense.

Paul,

I refuse to stand back and let you say this!!!!!!

I DID NOT MAKE ANY RETRACTION TO YOU AND YOU KNOW IT - I"VE GOT THE
EMAIL THAT I SENT YOU - SHALL I POST IT NOW?!!!!

THE ONLY THING I DID WAS APOLOGIZE TO YOU - I MADE NO RETRACTION!!!

IT APPAULS ME THAT YOU WOULD TELL THIS BALD FACE LIE HERE - DO SOME
SOUL SEARCHING PAUL AND FORGET ABOUT THIS.

THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE!!!!!!!

Jacky Ligon

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_23235.html#23311

> --- In tuning@y..., paul@s... wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., robertinventor@h... wrote:
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > Surely what Jacky is saying is that Paul was banned from
> > > practicalmicrotonality for spamming
> > > - using the list of e-mail addresses for the group to write
> > > to members, with no intention of participating in it,
> > > and doing it in such a way as to be a nuisance to the
> > > members concerned.
> > >
> > > If so, seems fair enough to me, assuming it is true.
> > >
> > > And, I believe it because I'm sure of Jacky's sincerity!
> >
> > Jacky is mistaken. Not only is he mistaken, but he's insiduously
> spreading this lie. He first
> > e-mailed me privately to make these accusations. I informed him
of
> what really had happened
> > and asked for a retraction and apology, so that we could resume
our
> friendship. He agreed. Now
> > he's not only going back on his retraction and apology, but
> involving 450 other people in this
> > nonsense.
>
> Paul,
>
> I refuse to stand back and let you say this!!!!!!
>
> I DID NOT MAKE ANY RETRACTION TO YOU AND YOU KNOW IT - I"VE GOT THE
> EMAIL THAT I SENT YOU - SHALL I POST IT NOW?!!!!
>
> THE ONLY THING I DID WAS APOLOGIZE TO YOU - I MADE NO RETRACTION!!!
>
> IT APPAULS ME THAT YOU WOULD TELL THIS BALD FACE LIE HERE - DO SOME
> SOUL SEARCHING PAUL AND FORGET ABOUT THIS.
>
> THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE!!!!!!!
>
> Jacky Ligon

It's nice to see this issue has finally been settled.

:) THERE's the smiley.... lost him last time.

________ _______ ______
Joseph Pehrson

🔗paul@stretch-music.com

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., paul@s... wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., robertinventor@h... wrote:
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > Surely what Jacky is saying is that Paul was banned from
> > > practicalmicrotonality for spamming
> > > - using the list of e-mail addresses for the group to write
> > > to members, with no intention of participating in it,
> > > and doing it in such a way as to be a nuisance to the
> > > members concerned.
> > >
> > > If so, seems fair enough to me, assuming it is true.
> > >
> > > And, I believe it because I'm sure of Jacky's sincerity!
> >
> > Jacky is mistaken. Not only is he mistaken, but he's insiduously
> spreading this lie. He first
> > e-mailed me privately to make these accusations. I informed him of
> what really had happened
> > and asked for a retraction and apology, so that we could resume our
> friendship. He agreed. Now
> > he's not only going back on his retraction and apology, but
> involving 450 other people in this
> > nonsense.
>
> Paul,
>
> I refuse to stand back and let you say this!!!!!!
>
> I DID NOT MAKE ANY RETRACTION TO YOU AND YOU KNOW IT - I"VE GOT THE
> EMAIL THAT I SENT YOU - SHALL I POST IT NOW?!!!!

Sure . . . go right ahead.
>
> THE ONLY THING I DID WAS APOLOGIZE TO YOU - I MADE NO RETRACTION!!!

Well that's fine . . . I simply asked you for a retraction and an apology . . . and you said "I agree".
So I suppose you agreed to the apology but not the retraction. Oh well, I guess I
misunderstood.
>
> IT APPAULS ME

Ha -- I like that.

> THAT YOU WOULD TELL THIS BALD FACE LIE HERE - DO SOME
> SOUL SEARCHING PAUL AND FORGET ABOUT THIS.
>
> THIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE!!!!!!!

No, it's a misunderstanding. So, now that we have that straightened out, what about the really
insiduous lie that you're spreading about me?

🔗ligonj@northstate.net

--- In tuning@y..., paul@s... wrote:
> No, it's a misunderstanding. So, now that we have that straightened
> out, what about the really insiduous lie that you're spreading > >
about me?

Paul Erlich wrote:

> Imagine if you were to undertake something such as I, and start a
> group of the nature, which I have openly revealed from the start in
> this forum - and I (although the thought could never occur to me),
or
> someone, were to come to your group, without any real intention to
> join in the spirit and purpose there, and read things there *where
> their name was never mentioned* - then derive some feeling that
these
> things were being said about them, and go on to use the email
> addresses of the members there to, contact them privately for
> explanations about what they said in your new forum, which even at
> the greatest stretch, were nothing more than metaphorical in nature.

"THIS NEVER HAPPENED. Never."

Part 1 of the Truth:

While you hold this statement from Paul Erlich in your minds:

I would like to refer everyone here to this message, as example,
which very awkwardly happens to be in the archives of this forum:

/tuning/topicId_22765.html#22784

Paul,

I want to ask you to refresh your memory and read this message, then
say again that this never happened. Then we will know the truth.

Part 2 of the Truth:

Paul Erlich wrote:

"Jacky is mistaken. Not only is he mistaken, but he's insiduously
spreading this lie. He first e-mailed me privately to make these
accusations. I informed him of what really had happened and asked for
a retraction and apology, so that we could resume our friendship.
He agreed. Now he's not only going back on his retraction and
apology, but involving 450 other people in this nonsense."

Furthermore, this is the private message that I sent to Paul, in
which he says that I made a retraction about the above example:

> Anyhow, a retraction and apology, and this will all be forgotten. I
still
> would like to consider you my friend.
>
> -Paul

"Ok - sorry, this is my desire too. Let's get on with the business at
hand."

Jacky

Now does anyone here detect the words "I retract what I have said?"
No, the truth is that the lies do not in fact emanate from me.

It is regrettable that you have forced me to do this publicly Paul.
But I cannot stand back and let you back these false accusations,
especially when the truth is right here in the archives of the tuning
list for all to see.

You say this never happened - never? You say that I'm being
insidious? Well I think that this message does more than my humblest
efforts to expose the truth and banish the bald face lies you have
told here. I've tried to work this out with you privately, but you
have chosen to do it otherwise, and have left me with no other choice
but to reveal you as the liar you are. You may attempt to twist your
way out of this as you like, but I'm through with this.

Jacky Ligon

🔗paul@stretch-music.com

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., paul@s... wrote:
> > No, it's a misunderstanding. So, now that we have that straightened
> > out, what about the really insiduous lie that you're spreading > >
> about me?
>
> Paul Erlich wrote:
>
> > Imagine if you were to undertake something such as I, and start a
> > group of the nature, which I have openly revealed from the start in
> > this forum - and I (although the thought could never occur to me),
> or
> > someone, were to come to your group, without any real intention to
> > join in the spirit and purpose there, and read things there *where
> > their name was never mentioned* - then derive some feeling that
> these
> > things were being said about them, and go on to use the email
> > addresses of the members there to, contact them privately for
> > explanations about what they said in your new forum, which even at
> > the greatest stretch, were nothing more than metaphorical in nature.
>
> "THIS NEVER HAPPENED. Never."
>
> Part 1 of the Truth:
>
> While you hold this statement from Paul Erlich in your minds:
>
> I would like to refer everyone here to this message, as example,
> which very awkwardly happens to be in the archives of this forum:
>
> /tuning/topicId_22765.html#22784
>
> Paul,
>
> I want to ask you to refresh your memory and read this message, then
> say again that this never happened.

I'll say it again . . . this never happened.

The person in question contacted me first, about the miracle tunings. I did not contact them off
your list, as you claimed.

Yes, I did misinterpret something this person said as being a very nasty attack on me, since it
used a name that had been only used for me previously. Hence, I felt a need to contact this
person _privately_, since she had already contacted me and we had had a friendly exchange. It
seemed I was dealing with a two-faced entity. What would you have done in my position?

>
> Furthermore, this is the private message that I sent to Paul, in
> which he says that I made a retraction about the above example:
>
> > Anyhow, a retraction and apology, and this will all be forgotten. I
> still
> > would like to consider you my friend.
> >
> > -Paul
>
> "Ok - sorry, this is my desire too. Let's get on with the business at
> hand."
>
> Jacky
>
> Now does anyone here detect the words "I retract what I have said?"

Then what did you mean by "this is my desire too"?

🔗paul@stretch-music.com

🔗Orphon Soul, Inc. <tuning@orphonsoul.com>

🔗Adrian van den Dries <az@cantanker.net>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

need link for metatuning- could not find!

Who let us all know what that you were banned publicly. anyway you should consider it an honor for reasons
i have already quoted.
Also if it is such an issue, why did you not attempt to join Newjustintonation list.
and at this point why would you want to be on Jacky's list anyway.

need link for metatuning- could nort find!

paul@stretch-music.com wrote:

> On the contrary. I kept your ridiculous accusations private, and did not air them to this list. Instead,
> I attempted (and continue to attempt) to resolve these problems with you in private e-mail. But
> you posted your ridiculous accusations to the list. You were the one who chose to do it
> otherwise.
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_23235.html#23338

>
> need link for metatuning- could not find!
>
> Who let us all know what that you were banned publicly. anyway you
should consider it an honor for reasons
> i have already quoted.
> Also if it is such an issue, why did you not attempt to join
Newjustintonation list.
> and at this point why would you want to be on Jacky's list anyway.
>
> need link for metatuning- could nort find!
>

I believe, Kraig, that it is just not listed yet in the Yahoo Search
Engine.

It's a good forum for various grievances, and I think well-needed...

/metatuning/messages

_________ ______ ________
Joseph Pehrson