Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: "miracle" instruments need cooperative efforts

from Monzo's post #22417

< With me working together with Harvey on instruments that
< serve the needs of the microtonal community, we may end up
< with some really useable and affordable instruments. It's
< up to us now to make the financial investment so that he
< can afford to produce these things.

< I've had the idea that maybe we could have some sort of
< fundraiser to accumulate enough money to get prototypes
< up and running. Feedback welcome.

-monz>>

Cooperative efforts to raise funds for new instruments is a super suggestion
in my opinion. If everyone puts a little in, we _all can get a lot out.
That's good community. I would look at it not so much as a "fund raiser,"
but as a community effort for the advancement of our art.

I would say it plainly that we could all put a little in the pot and easily
pay for a new instrument to be built. We could probably all place orders for
that instrument once that's been done, and Starr Labs could price it
according to the demand. That's jumping ahead, but you see my line of
reasoning. I assume that demand would have some impact on the price.
There's no way around some of the high cost of these instruments, but I don't
think Starr Labs is out to gouge anybody, and my guess is that with hundreds
of pending orders, prices would come down.

As you know, Joe, I also have a special interest in this because I have
invented a new instrument and I'm looking for a builder right now. I think
community involvement in its realisation would be great. We are the primary
lenders, borrowers, and stockholders of our own artistic futures, no? The
development of technology is expensive. Seems like we could sure speed a lot
of things up if we cooperate. In my opinion, we _need to cooperate like this
in order to make these things a reality.

Aaron

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

bn
--- In tuning@y..., Pitchcolor@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22872.html#22872

> from Monzo's post
> </tuning/topicId_22430.html#22494>

[Aaron had the wrong message number.]

>
> < With me working together with Harvey on instruments that
> < serve the needs of the microtonal community, we may end up
> < with some really useable and affordable instruments. It's
> < up to us now to make the financial investment so that he
> < can afford to produce these things.
>
> < I've had the idea that maybe we could have some sort of
> < fundraiser to accumulate enough money to get prototypes
> < up and running. Feedback welcome.
>
> -monz>>
>
> Cooperative efforts to raise funds for new instruments is
> a super suggestion in my opinion. If everyone puts a
> little in, we _all can get a lot out. That's good community.
> I would look at it not so much as a "fund raiser," but as
> a community effort for the advancement of our art.
>
> I would say it plainly that we could all put a little in
> the pot and easily pay for a new instrument to be built.
> We could probably all place orders for that instrument
> once that's been done, and Starr Labs could price it
> according to the demand. That's jumping ahead, but you
> see my line of reasoning. I assume that demand would
> have some impact on the price. There's no way around
> some of the high cost of these instruments, but I don't
> think Starr Labs is out to gouge anybody, and my guess is
> that with hundreds of pending orders, prices would come
> down.
>
> As you know, Joe, I also have a special interest in this
> because I have invented a new instrument and I'm looking
> for a builder right now. I think community involvement
> in its realisation would be great. We are the primary
> lenders, borrowers, and stockholders of our own artistic
> futures, no? The development of technology is expensive.
> Seems like we could sure speed a lot of things up if we
> cooperate. In my opinion, we _need to cooperate like this
> in order to make these things a reality.
>
> Aaron

Total agreement from me.

I came to live in San Diego mainly because I sensed that
there was a reason for me to possibly be some sort of link
between various disparate members of the microtonal
community who are already here.

With such fortutious timing as has happened recently,
with my working at Starr Labs and simultaneously the
recognition and presentation of the MIRACLE tunings,
I'm ready to seize the moment and do something that
could really mean a lot to a lot of us.

I have an idea:

I'll compose a form letter which I present below, and
which we can email to Harvey Starr individually to
indicate our interest in his instruments.

Anyone who is interested in this project may feel
free to offer revisions, amendments, criticisms, etc.
in regard to this letter. Then when we reach a
consensus, we each copy the final version and paste
it in our emailers and send it off to Starr Labs.

Or if anyone wants to write a more personal message
to Harvey, he may feel free to use any of public one
he wishes.

I'm thinking specifically of the Ztar.

The Ztar is already in production and his Harvey's
main item. Lots of guitarists, many of whom have
no interest or clue about microtonality, think it's
a really cool new hybrid of guitar and keyboard,
and have purchased it and use it in their gigs.

I hadn't been interested in the Ztar until recently,
with the advent of MIRACLE, so I don't already
have any data on how many Harvey's actually made,
but I'm sure I could get it if necessary.

I think it would proabably be a good idea for anyone
who actually wants to purchase an Starr Labs instrument
specifically for doing microtonal music to discuss
financial details right away, beginning with this letter. :)

The point of the letter is twofold:

1)
To show Harvey exactly how much interest there is
in his instruments in the microtonal community.

2)
To make the first big push in a concerted communal
effort to mass-produce modern microtonal electronic
instruments.

As a look at the Starr Labs price list (on the left
side menu at <http://www.starrlabs.com>) will show,
I am deliberatly pushing down the price of the Ztar
in hopes that if enough of us tell Harvey that we'll
pay $1000, he'll be encouraged to step up production,
he'll make a nice chunk of money (which, believe me,
he could really use), I'll get something good out of
it (a free Ztar maybe?...) and we'll al get a better
deal and a lot of MIRACLE music.

(And any number of other tunings as well.)

Also please feel free to copy this letter, and perhaps
even parts of this post, to any other internet list
you may know of that would be interested (alternate
MIDI controllers, guitar lists, keyboard lists, etc.).
Harvey's instruments don't have to be used microtonally,
and lots of other people who don't know about them may
want them. The added demand from them would only make
things better for Starr Labs and, therefore, better for
all of us here.

Now how's that for practical microtonality?

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

TEXT OF FORM LETTER BELOW
--------------------------

Dear Harvey,

I subscribe to the internet Tuning List.

Recently there has been a development which holds
great promise for joining many divergent approaches
in tuning theory, and practical application of it
to instruments.

Some list subscribers, particularly Graham Breed
and Joe Monzo, have been writing posts and creating
webpages describing how a new family of tunings
called MIRACLE can be easily mapped onto some of
your instruments: the Zboard and especially the Ztar.

I am interested in purchasing a Ztar for around $1000.
Please send me more information.

Sincerely,

____________________

🔗nanom3@home.com

--- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:
Hi Monz

I would like to send this letter. Do I just send it to Starr Labs,
or do you have a more specific email adress.

And after perusing the site I saw a picture of you with the keyboard
based on Erv Wilson's stuff. Have you used that often. Does it work
for you musically - can you sit down and just let your fingers poke
around, or do you get kind of tied up in the complexity? Is there
any keyboard inbetween 8800.00 model and the ZTar.
I admit that I really like the miracle scale and would enjoy having a
n instrument I could play, not program, to accompany my voice. But
then again I have a real "gear habit"...

Mary
> --------------------------
>
>
> Dear Harvey,
>
>
> I subscribe to the internet Tuning List.
>
> Recently there has been a development which holds
> great promise for joining many divergent approaches
> in tuning theory, and practical application of it
> to instruments.
>
> Some list subscribers, particularly Graham Breed
> and Joe Monzo, have been writing posts and creating
> webpages describing how a new family of tunings
> called MIRACLE can be easily mapped onto some of
> your instruments: the Zboard and especially the Ztar.
>
> I am interested in purchasing a Ztar for around $1000.
> Please send me more information.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> ____________________

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@y..., nanom3@h... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22872.html#22944

> Hi Monz
>
> I would like to send this letter. Do I just send it to
> Starr Labs, or do you have a more specific email adress.

Sorry, I should have included the email address from the
beginning. Guess I didn't suspect anyone would send the
letter as-is. Mail to:

harvey@starrlabs.com

>
> And after perusing the site I saw a picture of you with the
> keyboard based on Erv Wilson's stuff. Have you used that often.
> Does it work for you musically - can you sit down and just
> let your fingers poke around, or do you get kind of tied
> up in the complexity?

The day that picture was taken was the first time I ever saw
the MicroZone in real life. There have been very few orders
for this instrument, and so far only one has been shipped.
The others are still in the shop because there was a minor
adjustment that had to be made to every single key and that's
precisely what I'm working on.
(4 keyboards x 810 keys = 3,240 keys!)

So no, I have never produced a sound from a MicroZone and
therefore haven't really played it, other than running my
fingers over the silent keyboards and imagining.

I'm playing around with Fred Kohler's MicroZone editing
software, and will eventually be writing the Owner's Manual
for the MicroZone. But that will come later, when there
is an instrument with audio for me to play on.

> Is there any keyboard in between 8800.00 model and the ZTar.

The Zboard (listed at $2995) is the intermediary: kind of like
a double-Ztar but without the guitar-like trappings.
The link to it <http://www.starrlabs.com/keyboards2.html>
disappeared in the redesigned Starr Labs site.

Here's a complete list of all the instruments and accessories:
<http://www.starrlabs.com/pricing.html>.

> I admit that I really like the miracle scale and would
> enjoy having an instrument I could play, not program,
> to accompany my voice. But then again I have a real
> "gear habit"...
>
> Mary

I know what you mean, Mary. The thing I crave most is a
microtonal instrument that I can actually play. Everything
in my studio was stolen several years ago, and I haven't
had the opportunity to replace any of it yet. The only
microtonal instruments I have around the house now are
refretted guitars, and as I keep proclaiming loudly,
I ain't no guitarist!

The reason I started hanging out at Starr Labs was because
I wanted a MicroZone. Then when I started working there I
become fond of the Zboard. But since I realized that Canasta
as well as the full 72-EDO can map so easily to the Ztar,
and that's the lowest-priced instrument made at Starr Labs,
I decided to go that way... until I can afford a MicroZone.

The MicroZone will be much more useful for my theoretical
work... and of course would be even better for the very
extended JI composing that I like to do. But actually,
the Ztar is *MUCH* more portable (the full MicroZone is
huge), especially the cheapo Mini-Z that I'm going to get.
For my composing needs, it's the ideal instrument for me
right now.

-monz

> --- In tuning@y..., "monz" <joemonz@y...> wrote:

QUOTED FORM LETTER FOR STARR LABS
---------------------------------

Dear Harvey,

I subscribe to the internet Tuning List.

Recently there has been a development which holds
great promise for joining many divergent approaches
in tuning theory, and practical application of it
to instruments.

I am interested in purchasing a Ztar for around $1000.
Please send me more information.

Sincerely,

____________________

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22872.html#23369

> Well I'm not getting this. Does this instrument have
> STRINGS or KEYS?? Maybe I looked at the wrong diagram...
> Or do they BOTH have keys... (??)

As I've said, Joe, the Starr Labs Ztar is a hybrid, with
both strings *and* keys.

There are a lot of different models of Ztar... it's Harvey's
main product. Take a look at this picture of a typical
Mini-Z, giving a good view of the string area and the keyboard:
<http://www.starrlabs.com/5.html>.

Harvey's original idea for this instrument came from a
dissatisfaction with the way regular guitar synthesizers
work.

A vibrating string exhibits extremely complex phenomena,
and while I'd guess that engineers have learned how to
construct and program pickups and sensors so that they
can detect probably any aspect of it, honing in on *exactly*
the aspect desired by the player has turned out to be a
very difficult thing to achieve. It's particularly a
problem in trying to ascertain a fretted pitch.

So Harvey got completely around that difficulty by eliminating
the need to detect pitch from the string, instead using
the keyboard to determine pitch. The keyboard replaces
the guitar fingerboard, and in fact Harvey refers to the
two dimensions of the array arrangement of keys as "strings"
and "frets". The Ztar has 6 "strings" x 24 "frets", similar
to a standard guitar (except that most 12-EDO guitars don't
have quite that many frets).

The strings are only used in the picking/strumming area of
the guitar body, to transmit articulation data. They are
not necessary, and if you browse thru the Starr Labs
Gallery you'll see some Ztars without strings. Here
are two <http://www.starrlabs.com/9.html> and
<http://www.starrlabs.com/10.html> which have sensors
instead of strings. The player touches these to get drum
sounds, etc.

So the one I'm getting will be just a keyboard and a box
to hold the electronics, and possibly a guitar neck if
I decide that being able to play the keyboard like that
is worth the extra expense. Because of the unique key
design (thin and long... relatively speaking; these keys
are *much* smaller than regular keyboard keys) it's just
as easy (and possibly easier) to play this instrument
with hands on either side of the keyboard as with hands
both on the same side (as with a regular Halberstadt
keyboard).

(Joe, you've got me busy today... I was in the midst of
putting together a detailed answer about your MIDI pitch-bend
question when I saw this...)

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

Re: "miracle" instruments need cooperative efforts

🔗Pitchcolor@aol.com

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

🔗nanom3@home.com

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>