Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Scala 2.0

--- In tuning@y..., <manuel.op.de.coul@e...> wrote:

>
> I have decided to drop the "beta" adjective and make the current
> stable version the "official" Scala 2.0. At the moment there's
> only a Windows 9x/NT version (aside from the Alpha/OSF Unix
> version that I use for development).
> Download it from
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/software/scala20win.zip .
> Clipboard copy still doesn't work, but that's something beyond
> my influence.

Hello Manuel. I do hope you keep the version 1.7
available... "Clipboard copy" is really quite important for me, if I
am going to exchange ideas about tuning with other people...

And, my hard drive just nicely got erased (probably virus), so I have
to start again.

thanks!

Joseph

___________ _______ _________
Joseph Pehrson

🔗manuel.op.de.coul@eon-benelux.com

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., <manuel.op.de.coul@e...> wrote:
>
> Joseph,
>
> > I do hope you keep the version 1.7 available...
> > "Clipboard copy" is really quite important for me, if I
> > am going to exchange ideas about tuning with other people...
>
> I will, but note that version 2.0 can do everything that 1.7
> can. And saving the output to a file (see File menu) to work
> around this is only a little extra deed.
>
> >And, my hard drive just nicely got erased (probably virus), so I
> >have to start again.
>
> Ai, hope you have backups.
>
> Manuel

Hello Manuel!

Thanks for the concern... actually, I was pretty good; there was
almost nothing of great importance that is lost. I'm always
neurotically sticking floppies (still) into the computer and copying
stuff... It's obsessive, but this time it paid off. (Sound files,
of course, copied to CD-ROM)

I hate to say it, but if I were to write a "review" of Scala 2.0 it
would not be very good. Since I am too absolutely stupid to program
something like this myself, I have great respect for what you have
done!

However, I believe there is MUCH MORE work to be done before Scala
2.0 is anything near what people expect from a Windows program.
Sorry.

In the first place, it is painfully evident that this is just a
graphic "GUI" running in the foreground of Scala. Scala is sitting
there running right underneath it!

That makes me, as someone with at least a modicum of computer
experience, to want to get rid of the GUI. I don't like lipstick
either...

SUPPOSEDLY the installation of the .dlls is "an easy process..."

Well, just as in CSOUND, my ineptness has made this a small trial.

As usual, I write things in my autoexec.bat file, and it never works.

Finally, I get desperate, and copy ALL the .dlls from the CMD
directory into my Windows system file...

Well, that will do it. Still, not at all an optimal process for some
people.

Whew! Well, it's up and running! So then, what.

Well, I find the "navigation" process in the GUI to be cumbersome.
It's not at all like a standard windows file directory finder.

Without a doubt, both Graham Breed and Robert Walker have figured out
how to do this process in Windows and make it "standard." You might
want to confer with them about it. I have NO TROUBLE loading in
SCALA files from the directory window in Graham Breed's MIDI RELAY or
Robert Walker's FRACTAL TUNE SMITHY, even with the large size of the
scale directory.

With the new SCALA, I couldn't get this to work.

Ok, so I already spent a LOT of time on these simple things, and I
DON'T have much time, since I have to restore my entire computer
system...

So, let me play with the one scale available to me in the "root
directory" of SCALA: ptolemy.scl.

Well, since we have been discussing Ben Johnston, this one should be
applicable, no??

Anyway, since there are not too many .scl files in the directory,
this one loads in OK...

Here it is. Of course, it really just looks like the "regular" SCALA
with a face lift.

I try to copy parts of this file. "Copy and past" is a RUDIMENTARY
Windows function. EVERY Windows program does it!!!
(Guys/gals/gui's, name one that doesn't for me, please...)

Scala 2.0 won't do it. I guess I have to save the file every time as
a text file. Even THAT procedure wasn't immediately evident to me...
I'm sure it's there someplace... but I really didn't want to spend
HOURS on a GUI!

The fact that there is no "copy and paste" in this interface would be
a severe (not minor) inconvenience and setback for me in using
SCALA. I am FREQUENTLY citing parts of this and that... data about
files. Since I love e-mail, I send this kind of information to a LOT
of people. I do this all the time. I don't want a whole bunch
of .txt or whatever files in my directories that I have to eventually
delete!

OK... enough. As you can see, I'm sticking with 1.7 for now.

I believe there is a LOT more work to be done before SCALA is a full-
fledged Windows program... perhaps, Manuel, you could consult with
some people whose expertise is in that direction.

As the "village idiot" around here, I would just remind you
to "consider the source" in this evaluation.

However, I am a GREAT LOVER of SCALA... as I have mentioned time and
time again, and it pains me to give "bad marks" to your wonderful
product...

But this new Scala just isn't doing it for me... sorry.

with apologies

___________ ________ _____ _____
Joseph Pehrson

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

I've written a program that one can use to copy to clipboard from
SCALA, also paste, and use Windows explorer type Open and Save As,

http://members.nbci.com/tune_smithy/open_etc/open_etc.zip

Each is a two step process, but will be useful pro-tem until
Gtk is updated to do this.

Example:

to copy to clipboard use

@c
Scala commands to show output
@copy

Details in the readme file

It is free source. You can freely use / modify the code in
your own programs, and freely post updates of it.

To set up, unzip all the files into your scala directory.

open_etc.exe
open_etc.ini
paste.cmd
p.cmd
c.cmd
copy.cmd
open.cmd
save.cmd
open_etc_readme.txt
open_etc_msvc_c_code.zip

and when run, also makes these files for the various commands

~copy.txt
(copy)

~paste.scl
(paste)

o.cmd
(open)

s.cmd
(save)

See the readme if you want to change the names of these files.

Robert

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Joseph,

This is a bit of a coincidence!

I've just posted a message to TL about Scala 2.0 with
a program I wrote and use to do the copy, paste, and
open / save as windows style.

Should answer most of your questions I imagine.

This copy to clipboard is as easy to use as the
copy from the console app, perhaps easier
(I think, one less step), and there is no
limit on the amount of output to copy.

The new gui version has lots of nice features once
you get to know it and is a considerable upgrade
on 1.7.

The MSDOS type window you see in the background
isn't actually the old Scala 1.7, at least
I don't think so (maybe Manuel can explain?)
as it doesn't show any Scala commands, or anything
at all, when Scala 2.0 is running. I think
it is an artefact of Gtk. Would be nice if they
could run the program without it, or at least, let
one start the program with it minimised.

However, it is in the background and doesn't get in
the way at all, and one soon gets used to it.

Now that I can copy / paste to clipboard (needed to
ask Manuel as I hadn't realised Scala could log the
output to a file, somehow missed that) then I see
no reason not to upgrade to 2.0 permanently, and
lots of advantages.

You can use it just like 1.7 by typing commands into
the command window, and it shows the output in the
output window (but without the console app restriction
on how many lines to show), then you can also
use the menus and buttons to do commands without
having to type them out in full.

Programming the clipboard copy / paste, and the
windows Open / Save is the responsibility of
the Gtk programmers as Scala 2.0 is using
a multi-platform gui, and has to rely on
the programmers of the gui for Windows specific
features - hopefully this is a high priority
for the Gtk programmers! I think it is a relatively
new thing.

Sorry to hear about your hard disk. Glad you
have backups. What a thing to have to re-install
everything though!

Robert

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22286.html#22539

> I hate to say it, but if I were to write a "review" of Scala
> 2.0 it would not be very good. Since I am too absolutely
> stupid to program something like this myself, I have great
> respect for what you have done!
>
> However, I believe there is MUCH MORE work to be done before
> Scala 2.0 is anything near what people expect from a Windows
> program.
> Sorry.

Joe,

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you strongly on this one.

I've been pestering Manuel for at least 3 years to make
a Windows GUI for Scala, and now that he's finally done it,
I'm very happy with it.

Adding a new "PATH" command to my autoexec.bat file was a
breeze, and I'm glad Manuel put that in as an option, instead
of insisting that I further clutter my Windows directories
with DLLs that I might not recognize in the event of a future
problem.

Manuel,

I only have one major problem: the main window is showing
everything in a proportional font (my regular Windows default
is set to Arial), and I can see no way to change it to
a non-proportional font, which is what it has to be to
make all the tables and lattices line up correctly.
How can this be fixed?

The other quibble is that there are two notational systems
that I'd like to see implemented that apparently are not yet
available: my ASCII 72-EDO and 144-EDO.

Good job, Manuel! The new Scala is beginning to look a lot
like what I always wanted JustMusic to be. Did you use Java
for the Windows interface?

Looking forward to further improvements.

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22286.html#22540

> I've written a program that one can use to copy to clipboard from
> SCALA, also paste, and use Windows explorer type Open and Save As,
>
> http://members.nbci.com/tune_smithy/open_etc/open_etc.zip
>
> Each is a two step process, but will be useful pro-tem until
> Gtk is updated to do this.
>

Thanks, Robert, for this helpful file. *IF* I decide to use this
version, I will need it...

Monz is excited about the idea that at least there is SOME Windows
interface for Scala. But I believe if we would think logically about
it, he would have to agree it's not in the league with other Windows
interfaces, even those created by people on this list, notably
yourself and Graham Breed.

My Graham Breed MIDI RELAY is back up and running, but I still need
my registration code for FRACTAL TUNE SMITHY. I have e-mailed you
privately. I can't remember writing that down (!!)

Regarding my autoexec.bat file, Monz, I don't know why it didn't
work... it should't be rocket science, but in my view the operator of
the program shouldn't have to install .dlls like that.

Of course, that's just *MY* opinion...

__________ _____ ______ _____
Joseph Pehrson

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Joseph,

I really think you should give Scala 2.0 another go!

With the new command files it is
@c
Scala commands
@copy
to copy to the clipboard.

Compare that with

Scala commands
Click the select button
Drag to highlight the selection
press the enter key

to copy in Scala 1.7.

Plus, if it is a scale that spans several pages
(as will happen easily with show int, and also
for a scale of more than 20 or so notes)
then you have to repeat the process for each page.

I kept using 1.7 for a while, but now that I know
about this log to output, I can't think of any reason
at all why it might be an idea to go back to it.

Manuel keeps adding new features to it and I'm sure
it will develop in amazing ways. One thing added recently
is a nice search tree for the help - try Help | List of commands.

While getting used to it from 1.7, you can just use
the main window, type commands as usual into the
command window, and look at the output above it,
which you can resize as you like.

So, you can do everything you can do in 1.7 and more, and is
easier to use I think.

Also there is one very nice feature of the Gtk Gui that Windows
doesn't have, would be a good idea for a future upgrade of
Windows.

Try showing one of the menus. Then with one of the items highlighted,
type a shortcut key, such as, say, Alt+I for View | Show Intervals.

You will find that this shorcut gets shown alongside the menu entry.

Now, any time when you press Alt + I, you will run Show Intervals.

This easy way of dynamically allocating shortcuts to a menu is something
that one can't do in Windows.

One could program it actually (maybe I'll think about adding it to FTS),
but I don't know of any windows program that does this. Even if one did
program it, I'm not sure one could get the menu to update instantly
as you type the shorcut as that is getting pretty low level
and possibly into the Windows dlls.

A very nice idea.

Robert

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

About installers:

Just to say the FTS installer is one I made using a program to make installers.

You drag and drop the files you want to install into
the installer builder, and tell it where you want them to go by default, and edit the text
for the dialogs to show what you want them to show. Also tell it what file
associations you need to add to the registry.

I think this is quite a common way of building an installer.

You can get it to edit the autoexec.bat file for you too on installation, I've noticed
(not needed for FTS).

I got a free freeware / shareware developers license for it from MindVision,
and in return, need to add a table in the help to say who made it (see
the end of the introductory help page).

I think there is also supposed to be a free installer that comes with my compiler,
but on reading the explanation of how it is configured, I think
it maybe isn't so easy to use and I haven't tried it.

So, much as it would be nice to take responsibility for the installer,
I can't really, as I had considerable help making it from the
installer builder program and hardly had anything to do.

Robert

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Monz,

I wonder if you saw my post to TL about the Open_etc.exe
program I did for Scala.

That lets you use the standard Windows Open / Save.

You need to type
@open
select file
@o to load it

for each file, but if one likes the Windows open dialog,
as most windows users do, it is worth it.

Manuel didn't write that open dialog, the Gtk developers
did, and I agree it is buggy, and also very rudimentary
for a modern open dialog.

I can't understand why they didn't just call the standard
Windows open / save - like trying to re-invent
the wheel. Must have had some strong motivation,
but hope they come to their senses!

Must be possible if I can do it - admittedly the way
I did it is a bit ad hoc, but the developers
could integrate it into the gui - if they can't
do it any other way, I offer them my program
to adapt (only joking :-) )

I've said as much to Manuel and I think he passed
it on to the Gtk list.

There is a tremendous amount of subtlety to the
modern Windows open dialog, after all it has eveolved
over many years. You wouldn't guess how much is involved
from how seamlessly it works. Everyone is used to it too.

Must consist of many thousands of lines of code I'm
sure, probably tens of thousands of them, or even more,
if one were to try to re-write all its functionality
from scratch at a low level, without ever calling it,
or using any of the controls that it is made
out of.

(It is made out of trees, multiple column lists, icons,
some code to create a menu when you right click on an
entry, lots of code to process the file associations
field, interactions with the registry to find file
associations for a file in the list if you
double click on it, - the list just goes on and
on and will involve fairly large sections of some of
the windows dlls I expect)

Yes, surely tens of thousands of lines, maybe going into the
hundreds of thousands if one were to do all of that from scratch
at a low level, in an independent way, as Gtk seem to have set
out to do in their Open dialog.

Yet, in a windows program, you can call all that functionality
up with a few lines of code.

I think Gtk should just do the same, and use their
creativity more profitably than to try to re-invent it.

Just an opinion, but a strongly held one, and one that
many Windows users will hold I expect.

Many users only use a fraction of that of course, but everyone
has got into their own ways of working that use some of the
features, so one wants to keep them all.

But, Scala 1.7 doesn't have an open dialog at all. So this
shows how much our expectations are being raised just because
it now has a gui.

I think we can agree that Scala 2.0 is pleasant to use
a considerable step forward.

Robert

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22286.html#22638

> > Where does one type this "@open"? I'm mystified.
>
> You type it into the Scala command line.
> - the single line edit field below the output window
> in Scala 2.0.

Oh, OK. Got it.

>
> Runs open.cmd, which is one of the files one unzips
> into the SCALA directory.
>
> Should display a message in the Scala 2.0 output window
> saying:
>
> "
> Open (Windows version)
> Select file, and click Open.
> To load the file, type @o in the command line window.
> "
>
> then show the Open dialog. If not, let me know!

Open.cmd is in my Scala directory, and by navigating thru
my directories and opening it via the "File|Open" command
that's already provided, I finally got Scala to display the
above dialog. But open.cmd didn't give me the Windows
dialog box.

My default directory insists on remaining C:\windows\desktop,
even when I go to "Edit|Options" and change it. So I keep
getting the error message:
"Command file open.cmd not found"

....?

To Manuel:

Is it possible/easy to add other parameters to show, instead
of having only the ratios/cents and the one other parameter
selected by the user?

For a lot of the scales I'm interested in, I really don't
need the ratios and would much prefer prime-factors in the
first column and cents in the second, but I see no way to
do this.

Perhaps the user could choose the parameters he wishes
for *both* columns, instead of for the second column only.
Or perhaps you could make it so that the user chooses how
many columns of data he wants to display.

It seems to me that this would be fairly easy to do.

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Monz,

> Open.cmd is in my Scala directory, and by navigating thru
> my directories and opening it via the "File|Open" command
> that's already provided, I finally got Scala to display the
> above dialog. But open.cmd didn't give me the Windows
> dialog box.

Sorry about that!

> My default directory insists on remaining C:\windows\desktop,
> even when I go to "Edit|Options" and change it. So I keep
> getting the error message:
> "Command file open.cmd not found"

This suggests that it is your working directory for your
desktop shorcut to Scala that needs to be set.

You will probably find that
@tutorial
doesn't work either, in this case.

One way to fix that is to make a new desktop shorcut
by finding the file in Windows Explorer, and dragging
it to the desktop.

If one does it that way, it automatically sets the working
directory to match the program's location path.

.....................

To edit a shortcut that you have already made,
right click on it, and choose
Properties | Shortcut

Look at the Target field.

Edit the Start in field to show the same folder
as the Target
(copy it up to the last \)
.....................

One other thing to check:

Perhaps I didn't make it clear that the zip
need to be unzipped into the directory the
Scala program itself is in.
(rather than the cmd subfolder, or your scales
folder, or any of the others).

That should fix it - let me know how it goes!

Robert

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22286.html#22661

> One way to fix that is to make a new desktop shorcut
> by finding the file in Windows Explorer, and dragging
> it to the desktop.
>
> If one does it that way, it automatically sets the working
> directory to match the program's location path.

Hmmm... that's the way I did it the first time.

So, just in case, I deleted that shortcut and tried it this
way again, and it still didn't work.

Then I deleted that shortcut and created a new one using
the reguler desktop command "New|Shortcut", and *that* was
the one with the "target" field on the "properties" tab.

So now it works fine! - and a *big* improvement over the
original dialog. Thanks.

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Monz,

Glad you got it working!

I've updated the readme to explain about the working directory.

Just discovered, the zip has a duplicate of c.cmd as copy.cmd, so the
copy won't work. Not sure how it happened, but I've
done a new upload with the correct version of copy.cmd.

http://members.nbci.com/tune_smithy/open_etc/open_etc.zip

N.B. if anyone is still using Scala 1.7, the Open_etc program will
work for it too, until you upgrade, except, the copy doesn't seem
to work for 1.7 at present. It is the c.cmd file that has no effect.

So you can do it by using
file ~copy.txt
then
@copy

(you may find that @ is displayed when you type " and vice versa for
console apps, and that ~ is displayed when you type ï¿½ and vice versa).

Robert

🔗manuel.op.de.coul@eon-benelux.com

Hi Joseph,

I can easily understand your criticism. It doesn't have
the exact same "look and feel" of a normal Windows program
because the GUI toolkit is multiplatform as Robert mentioned.
In fact the Windows version is more or less only a byproduct.
This toolkit, GTK+ is developed primarily for Linux and
therefore works much better with Linux and Unix.
Every time after some development that I do a new Windows
compilation, I'm disappointed about the things that don't
work as expected. Still, given the idiosyncrasies of Windows,
I'm surprised that it works as well as it does and am hopeful
that it will be better in the future. The spectacular aspect
for me is that I can make versions for different platforms
__without changing a single line of code__!!
Now try to adapt a regular Windows program to Linux...

>In the first place, it is painfully evident that this is just a
>graphic "GUI" running in the foreground of Scala. Scala is sitting
>there running right underneath it!

I think you're referring to the DOS window that's opened aside.
This is not the old Scala running underneath. It is needed to write
any error messages to. The GUI code sometimes does this. And
if an exception occurs (this can happen when there's a bug), I
will know exactly at which line of code in which module it occurred,
in many cases making repair possible without even knowing what
somebody did. Compare this to regular error messages like
"fatal exception at 0f43" where it's still uncertain that 0f43
is the place where the bug actually is.

>I believe there is a LOT more work to be done before SCALA is a full-
>fledged Windows program... perhaps, Manuel, you could consult with
>some people whose expertise is in that direction.

This is not my priority. I'm still hoping that I can throw
Windows out the door at some point in time.

>However, I am a GREAT LOVER of SCALA... as I have mentioned time and
>time again, and it pains me to give "bad marks" to your wonderful
>product...

Don't worry, no hurt.

Manuel

🔗manuel.op.de.coul@eon-benelux.com

Joe Monzo wrote:

>I only have one major problem: the main window is showing
>everything in a proportional font (my regular Windows default
>is set to Arial), and I can see no way to change it to
>a non-proportional font, which is what it has to be to
>make all the tables and lattices line up correctly.
>How can this be fixed?

One of two things can be wrong: 1. You're starting Scala from
a different directory or 2. the "Courier New" font is not
installed on your computer.
In the first case the file "scalarc" cannot be read. You can
edit this file yourself to change things like font types, font
sizes, background colour, text colour, etc. You can choose
the font for text, menus and scale window independently.

>The other quibble is that there are two notational systems
>that I'd like to see implemented that apparently are not yet
>available: my ASCII 72-EDO and 144-EDO.

Yes we discussed this before but I don't like the use of + and -
symbols because they don't stand out well in a score, and so
I didn't use them in any notation system. The closest one to
your notation is Richter-Herf's: R72.
I could put in a system for 144, maybe a regular one and another
one a superset of R72.

>Did you use Java for the Windows interface?

No GTK+, see http://www.gtk.org. It's also what Ed Borasky
suggested for JustMusic because of its portability.
I don't know Java very well, but I have the impression that
GTK+ is more powerful.

Manuel

🔗manuel.op.de.coul@eon-benelux.com

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22286.html#22605

Hello Robert!

Well, I must say I am seriously behind as ever, but I FINALLY got a
chance to try your now OPEN command in BOTH versions of SCALA, 1.7
and 2.0

IT'S TERRRRRRRIFFFIC!

Really, that's what I was looking for, for BOTH versions. It really
is an amazing improvement for Windows users. I'm going to use it all
the time.

Of course, I also like the way SCALA 2.0 scrolls the screen, rather
than the abrupt breaks. Of course that is an advancement.

HOWEVER, I STILL can't get SCALA 2.0 to save to a text file from
screen. How does one do that again??

I tried to use @copy and @c, since I was hoping it would copy the
text from the SCALA screen to the Windows clipboard, but when I tried
to paste into my favorite text utility, nothing happened...

Did I do something wrong??

Thanks, Robert!

_________ _____ __ ____
Joseph Pehrson

🔗robertinventor@hotmail.com

Hi Joseph,

Glad you like it so much!

> HOWEVER, I STILL can't get SCALA 2.0 to save to a text file from
> screen. How does one do that again??

> I tried to use @copy and @c, since I was hoping it would copy the
> text from the SCALA screen to the Windows clipboard, but when I
tried
> to paste into my favorite text utility, nothing happened...

Original upload of the zip had a copy of c.cmd instead of copy.cmd
so you may still have that.

I posted a fix a bit later with the correct copy.cmd one.

Most recent one also has a fix as I forgot to deal with folders
and file names with spaces in them, which need special treatment
in this context.

Another thing to bear in mind.

For copy, you do @c first, and then @copy
(for open, paste, and save it is the other way round)

That is because the @c starts the selection, and the @copy
ends it and copies it to the clipboard, so since the @copy
is the one that does the actual copying, seemed best to name
it that way.

If you want to change the names of the commands, the word ones
can be edited easily.

E.g. if you edit copy.cmd and rename it to
co.cmd, you just need to type @co each time instead of @copy.

(if one wants to rename the @c etc ones, see the readme
for the details
)

Hope that gets you up and going with @copy too.

You can also use @paste, then @p to paste a scale from the
clipboard, which can be a quick way to make it if you have
one in an e-mail message one is reading.

Robert

🔗manuel.op.de.coul@eon-benelux.com

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

🔗manuel.op.de.coul@eon-benelux.com

🔗carl@lumma.org

🔗manuel.op.de.coul@eon-benelux.com

🔗carl@lumma.org

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., carl@l... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_22286.html#24404

> > Carl,
> >
> > The command line hasn't been removed. If you have
> > tried 2.0, do you still think I should update the
> > console version? Being able to scroll back is a
> > big advantage.
>
> I have tried 2.0; what do you mean by scroll back?
> You could always scroll back, you just couldn't
> see the commands... usually, I can remember what
> I did and/or figure out what the command was by
> looking at the output.
>
> Maybe I'm just afraid of change...
>

Hi Carl...

I don't think so. The new "interface" is pretty "clunky..." It's
not Manuel's fault... I believe it's the "universal" programming
system that he's using.

He means, I believe, the capacity to scroll the text in the screen up
and down, unbroken by the <enter> command.

It would be GREAT if version 1.7 could be updated to do that, too.

Robert Walker also added significant Windows implementation... as you
will find in the recent archives... to open files for BOTH versions.
(And to copy the screen text for 2.0 which is a necessary function
that is not present... at least I think it's necessary...)

________ _________ _______
Joseph Pehrson