Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: Tuning Archive

Hi everyone:

New archive for msg 20000 to today:
http://members.nbci.com/tune_smithy/tuning/tuning__20/index.html
at 20 rows to a page for the indexes (10 for the text).
Zip of it:
http://members.nbci.com/tune_smithy/tuning/tuning__20.zip
(2,770 Kb, and unzips to 12 Mb, but may use much more than that
depending on your hard disk cluster size)

All going well, I'll do a zip and on-line version of the complete archive
a bit later.

Idea is perhaps to keep the two most recent sections fairly
up to date, and the complete archive can be refreshed less often.

Robert

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_21573.html#21573

> Hi everyone:
>
> New archive for msg 20000 to today:
> http://members.nbci.com/tune_smithy/tuning/tuning__20/index.html
> at 20 rows to a page for the indexes (10 for the text).
> Zip of it:
> http://members.nbci.com/tune_smithy/tuning/tuning__20.zip
> (2,770 Kb, and unzips to 12 Mb, but may use much more than that
> depending on your hard disk cluster size)
>
> All going well, I'll do a zip and on-line version of the complete
archive
> a bit later.
>
> Idea is perhaps to keep the two most recent sections fairly
> up to date, and the complete archive can be refreshed less often.
>
> Robert

Thanks so much, Robert, for keeping this up to date. I'm sure many
people on this list appreciate this important "backup." It works
fine, too, as long as I stay in Internet Explorer. Actually, I'm
very tired of Netscape since they are obviously trying to pay "catch
up" with Internet Explorer and are failing miserably. I'm very
disapointed with them, so reluctantly also joined the Bill Gates
"hegemony" as I have with so many other programs...

Thanks again!

_________ _______ ____ _
Joseph Pehrson

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Joseph,

I'd like to make the archive work in Netscape as well if I can!
I did it with the small size of tables and it made no difference
here, so there didn't particularly seem to be any point in
doing a test with several sizes of page, but after trying it as
20 entries per page, kept that, as I liked the small pages.

It also happened just as easily with the message text pages,
which have no tables in them, and are pretty basic html,
and there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the html
according to the validator I used, and looks okay.

Those pages just consist of the usual header and html body
text, hrefs, and html character entities, and new paragraph
marks, and line breaks - absolutely straightforward stuff.
Tags used:
<HTML><HEAD><BODY> <PRE> <HR> and character entities
such as >
Also only fields used are <A href="">, <A name=""> and

Also all the open tags are matched by closed tags in the proper
sequence, as checked in the HTML validator.

However, could only do it by rapidly clicking on the next button,
and I really do mean very rapidly - it was perfectly possible
to browse the archive by just clicking a little more slowly.

So, if you find that it always crashes on some particular page,
then it might suggest a problem with the html. A
good html browser should fail gracefully rather than crash - just
show an error message or a blank page if it can't render the
html for whatever reason. But if there is some particular html
syntax that causes Netscape to crash, I could do something about it.

So let me know if you do find any consistency in the pages it
crashes on.

Also would be interesting to know if you find it crashes while browsing
the Yahoo Tuning list on-line as I pretty much used the same format for
the html for the tables as for that, and the Yahoo html pages are
much more complex. If it crashes for the new archive _on-line_, and not for the
Yahoo pages, then that would suggest that one can do something about it,
and I'll give it more thought, and we could see if we can puzzle it out.

For example, I could do a test "archive" with just the navigation and
no content, say, and see if it still does it. If it did, could then
make a series of web pages using various elements of the
navigation and see if any of those crash it.

Can't think of anything else to do at present.

It is an easy matter to change the number of entries per page for the
tables for future archives, if anyone has any preferences for that.

Maybe Netscape would do better if they put more effort into making
sure that the browser never crashes as their top priority, and less
into the extra features!

Of course, has to be very complex program to support java, javascript,
dynamic html, ..., ... The causes of crashes can be very hard to locate
sometimes too.

I'm happy using IE or Netscape, but it is good to have alternatives to
try, and I too am sorry that Netscape isn't making quite such a good
go at it as it could.

Robert

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_21573.html#21633

> Hi Joseph,
>
> I'd like to make the archive work in Netscape as well if I can!

Hello Robert!

I hate to say it, but at the moment I am no longer using Netscape.
I'm ONLY using Internet Explorer. It's been one thing and
another...mostly the VERY poor quality of Netscape 6, which really
feels like a "cheap" product. Jon Szanto was explaining that they
had changed their development team, etc., etc. It looks like they
were trying to "ape" Internet Explorer in the latest version with
certain features.

Well, I couldn't even get it to run Quicktime VIDEO and that was the
last straw. There were several other problems with Netscape,
including the fact that the text never lined up right when I posted
messages.

It's a shame, but because Microsoft took over the market, it has
caused Netscape to reorganize and push out a poor and unstable
product. So things get even WORSE for Netscape and it's sad in a
way, since I remember back when it was Mosaic and the FIRST original
browser! (It's really only be 5 or 6 years ago, unbelieveably)

So, in the same way that I had to migrate from Wordperfect and Lotus
in "day to day" stuff to Microsoft Office, now THIS. There is really
no other alternative, since the quality is definitely higher... It's
just too bad Microsoft has the ATTITUDE it does.

So what does this have to do with TUNING?? LOTS, since I use the
browser all the time both on the Tuning List and to reference all the
links we are finding all the time...

>
> It also happened just as easily with the message text pages,
> which have no tables in them, and are pretty basic html,
> and there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the html
> according to the validator I used, and looks okay.
>
> Those pages just consist of the usual header and html body
> text, hrefs, and html character entities, and new paragraph
> marks, and line breaks - absolutely straightforward stuff.
> Tags used:
> <HTML><HEAD><BODY> <PRE> <HR> and character
entities
> such as >
> Also only fields used are <A href="">, <A name=""> and
> 
>

Well, this is certainly pretty "standard" stuff, Robert. That
doesn't give Netscape 4.7 a very good "excuse..."
>

> Maybe Netscape would do better if they put more effort into making
> sure that the browser never crashes as their top priority, and less
> into the extra features!
>

The "extra features" in Netscape 6 are quite hidden. I don't even
know what they are, but it loads in a lot of Java and other stuff.
That's another thing, with the memory I have it takes probably more
than a full minute to load in... and then when it IS loaded, doesn't
do much, or does LESS than Internet Explorer!

> I'm happy using IE or Netscape, but it is good to have alternatives
to try, and I too am sorry that Netscape isn't making quite such a
good go at it as it could.
>

Even with all the pending litigation, it is clear to me that
Microsoft has "won" the war... It can be seen in the way the new
products are coming out...

Alas...

_______ _____ ___ ______
Joseph Pehrson