Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: hexany improv

Hi Paul,

Well, what happened is that I am using a keyboard with a damaged
touch (played by someone with a very heavy touch, used to the church
organ, who played it in a non touch sensitive way.)

Needs to be repaired, but haven't sent it in yet, and meanwhile
am using it as a non touch sensitive way.

Have option in FTS to ignore touch, but didn't realise that it still
saves the touch to midi while recording as you play along, even though
it plays it all at constant volume (will need to change that)

So, while playing it, I heard it all at constant volume.

The touch is accidental, and some of the irregularities of touch are
because of the keyboard.

Actually, I rather liked this accidental touch, but to hear what
I actually played:

http://members.nbci.com/tune_smithy/improv/hexany_improv_const_vol.mid

It's not really for repeated listening though, just to show what
the double triad dissonances sound like in context, combined with
the consonant triads and diads.

It's the first time I've really got dissonances working in the hexany.
One needs to approach them in the right kind of way, so that they sound
like triad pairs, e.g. start with one of the triads and add in
the extra note that completes the other one, and so forth.

You'll hear that better in the constant volume version!

So for example, often play a triad, add note to complete another
triad on one of its diad "edges", to make a dissonance,
then maybe eventually remove the other note so that you move to
a new triad in that way.

May do something with them later perhaps. Maybe a kind of slow
movement in my 1 3 5 7 hexany "quartet miniature".

I've changed the voice from violin to cello (though actually I
also like the sound of the violin played below it's normal
range, like a baritone violin).

Robert

🔗Paul H. Erlich <PERLICH@ACADIAN-ASSET.COM>

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20920.html#20920

> It's the first time I've really got dissonances working in the
hexany. One needs to approach them in the right kind of way, so that
they sound like triad pairs, e.g. start with one of the triads and
add
in the extra note that completes the other one, and so forth.
>
> You'll hear that better in the constant volume version!
>
> So for example, often play a triad, add note to complete another
> triad on one of its diad "edges", to make a dissonance,
> then maybe eventually remove the other note so that you move to
> a new triad in that way.
>

This procedure seems to work quite nicely, Robert, and you manage to
avoid the "oriental" sound of the hexany which is obvious and
overworked...

________ ____ ____ _
Joseph Pehrson

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20920.html#21090

> overworked by who
>
> jpehrson@r... wrote:
>
> >
> > This procedure seems to work quite nicely, Robert, and you manage
to avoid the "oriental" sound of the hexany which is obvious and
> > overworked...
> >
> > ________ ____ ____ _
> > Joseph Pehrson
> >
> >

Hi Kraig!

I guess a better word would be "inappropriate...", at least in MY
personal case. I have no Asian or oriental background or prior
influences in my music and, were I to use the hexany in that way, it
would be artificial.
>

I've tried to avoid those kind of associations for that reason...
but, you're right, for some other people they may be just the right
thing! So, I probably shouldn't generalize for other people...

_______ ______ ____ ____
Joseph Pehrson

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

I can not see where you are generalizing about anyone's else's work but my own.

jpehrson@rcn.com wrote:

>
>
> Hi Kraig!
>
> I guess a better word would be "inappropriate...", at least in MY
> personal case. I have no Asian or oriental background or prior
> influences in my music and, were I to use the hexany in that way, it
> would be artificial.
> >
>
> I've tried to avoid those kind of associations for that reason...
> but, you're right, for some other people they may be just the right
> thing! So, I probably shouldn't generalize for other people...
>
> _______ ______ ____ ____
> Joseph Pehrson
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20920.html#21099

> I can not see where you are generalizing about anyone's else's work
but my own.
>

Kraig! Really!

I hate to tell you this, but I wasn't even *thinking* about your OWN
work when I was discussing that! It's true! In fact, I don't even
HEAR the kind of "orientalisms" in YOUR pieces I was thinking about!
It has NOTHING to do with you!

I was just talking about a facile approach to the six notes that
would sound like some kind of "ersatz" Asian music. That would be
"easy" to do with the hexany. I didn't want to do that, and YOU
don't do it either!

Quite frankly, I hear more Asian or oriental influence in the music
of Lou Harrison than I do in your OWN music! But, of course, Harrison
is a master with it, and can integrate it into his own original style
with a melodic line which is his own and the work of a great master...

_______ _____ _ ____
Joseph Pehrson

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

It may be true but find it hard to believe. Like your friend who you like to forward my post to, I
find such comments and such action hard to trust. Well as one of the only examples of anything
that sounded even remotely from the east, it was hard not to take it this as an off handed
comment. Why not make this clear on your first response then.
My music has nothing to do with Harrisons. Nor would the idea of competing to see who can be
the most oriental sounding have any appeal. Thank you for expressing where you feel my music lacks
in comparisons to his. His music is quite useful to a large amount of people and are thankful that
his generosity is so well rewarded

jpehrson@rcn.com wrote:

> --- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_20920.html#21099
>
> > I can not see where you are generalizing about anyone's else's work
> but my own.
> >
>
> Kraig! Really!
>
> I hate to tell you this, but I wasn't even *thinking* about your OWN
> work when I was discussing that! It's true! In fact, I don't even
> HEAR the kind of "orientalisms" in YOUR pieces I was thinking about!
> It has NOTHING to do with you!
>
> I was just talking about a facile approach to the six notes that
> would sound like some kind of "ersatz" Asian music. That would be
> "easy" to do with the hexany. I didn't want to do that, and YOU
> don't do it either!
>
> Quite frankly, I hear more Asian or oriental influence in the music
> of Lou Harrison than I do in your OWN music! But, of course, Harrison
> is a master with it, and can integrate it into his own original style
> with a melodic line which is his own and the work of a great master...
>
> _______ _____ _ ____
> Joseph Pehrson
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20920.html#21101

> It may be true but find it hard to believe. Like your friend who
you like to forward my post to, I find such comments and such action
hard to trust.

Hi Kraig...

I'm not sure I know who you are talking about here... Who am I
forwarding stuff to again??

>Well as one of the only examples of anything that sounded even
remotely from the east, it was hard not to take it this as an off
handed comment. Why not make this clear on your first
response then.

Well, if you mean your piece from the MicroFest, then I would have to
say that I did not find it sounding "from the East" in any way.
Sorry, if it was intended to do that...

> My music has nothing to do with Harrisons. Nor would the idea
of competing to see who can be the most oriental sounding have any
appeal. Thank you for expressing where you feel my music lacks in
comparisons to his.

Ummm... don't you think you may be reading a little bit into this??
I never implied anything of the kind myself. I'm not sure I know
where this is coming from...

Are you feeling perhaps a little "defensive" of late?? Sorry if I
have offended....

_______ _____ _____ ____
Joseph Pehrson

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

jpehrson@rcn.com wrote:

> Well, if you mean your piece from the MicroFest, then I would have to
> say that I did not find it sounding "from the East" in any way.
> Sorry, if it was intended to do that...

we were talking about the hexany piece I believe.

But I believe i said

> My music has nothing to do with Harrisons. Nor would the idea
of competing to see who can be the most oriental sounding have any
appeal.

I think this is saying it was not intended to sound eastern nor western for that matter. Sorry you
missed implication.

Ummm... don't you think you may be reading a little bit into this??

> I never implied anything of the kind myself. I'm not sure I know
> where this is coming from...
>
> Are you feeling perhaps a little "defensive" of late?? Sorry if I
> have offended....

Yes i probably quite defensive. I feel perhaps i need to be as this piece was already dealt a
disservice.
If you look at your post you did make a comparison and a pretty strong implication.

>
>
> _______ _____ _____ ____
> Joseph Pehrson

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

--- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20920.html#21104
>

Hi Kraig!

I believe we are a bit "miscommunicating..." and sorry about it!

>
> jpehrson@r... wrote:
>
> > Well, if you mean your piece from the MicroFest, then I would
have to say that I did not find it sounding "from the East" in any
way.Sorry, if it was intended to do that...
>

> we were talking about the hexany piece I believe.
>

See... we're not even on the "same page" here. I wasn't thinking AT
ALL about YOUR music. All I was talking about was Robert Walker's
improvisation and my own attempts with the hexany. YOUR music was
not in my mind at all... You can believe that or not. I can't do
much about it in any case, but it's a fact.

I think the problem is the fact that at one time you were one of the
FEW composers working with the hexany. NOW, however, several people
are trying to work with it... so the implications do not ALWAYS
involve your OWN work anymore....

> But I believe i said
>
> > My music has nothing to do with Harrisons. Nor would the idea
> of competing to see who can be the most oriental sounding have any
> appeal.
>
> I think this is saying it was not intended to sound eastern nor
western for that matter. Sorry you missed implication.
>

Yes, I agree with you. Your own music sounds neither eastern or
western...

> Ummm... don't you think you may be reading a little bit into this??
>
> > I never implied anything of the kind myself. I'm not sure I know
> > where this is coming from...
> >
> > Are you feeling perhaps a little "defensive" of late?? Sorry if I
> > have offended....
>
> Yes i probably quite defensive. I feel perhaps i need to be as this
piece was already dealt a disservice.
> If you look at your post you did make a comparison and a pretty
strong implication.
>

Well, in the first place, I was never discussing your piece, so there
couldn't be a disservice. That was in your OWN mind, and it colored
all the rest of the discussion...

Perhaps you should tell me if you feel "insulted" if I would say that
I feel that Harrison's music sounds more "Eastern" or "Oriental" than
YOURS does. Do you feel that is an insult??

I mean this in all curiousity, since I really don't know or
understand.

For me, personally, your music sounds like some kind of "islandic" or
indigenous music sometimes, but I do not specifically associate it
with "Eastern" the way I do sometimes with Harrison. Well, when he
has a Gamelan on stage, it gets pretty obvious, right??

Is this a problematic discussion for you?? If so, I don't understand
it, since it's just a discussion of styles and esthetics...

The rest of my paragraphs about the melodic lines and so forth of
Harrison, again, had NOTHING to do with you, and were not meant as a
comparison....

Is that a problem?? I LOVE the beautiful melodic lines of Harrison,
but what does that have to do with your OWN music? You have a style
and way of going about things that is all your own...

Frankly, I don't believe a comparison between Grady and Harrison is
possible, even if somebody wanted to do it.

And, frankly, I would be the LAST to want to do it! Trust me!

_________ _____ _____ _
Joseph Pehrson

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Kraig,

I'm pretty sure when Joseph talked about an oriental
style as overworked, he meant generally, rather
than overworked for the hexany, and I read it as continuing
from his earlier post to me, where he talked about how he
tried to avoid oriental style in his hexany piece.

I didn't read his post as referring to your music
myself, and as Joseph has just said that he doesn't
think of your music as oriental in sound, I think
that confirms that.

I don't quite understand what it is all about,
but understand some do make htis categorisation of
music as oriental in sound, and want to avoid it
in their own work, because they feel they
aren't able to do music in such a style authentically,
which makes sense, if one sees things like that.

Though, oriental music is such a very
wide category, and I don't quite understand myself how
anything can "sound oriental" unless it actually
is in one of the authentic oriental traditions. While
if it is, it would be okay as it would be authentic.

So, though it clearly means something to many, and I
respect that, I'm not able to hear what it is about myself.

Anyway, whatever, I think your musici is great.

I wonder what you think about the rolling triads
dissoncances?

I think perhaps I took them a bit fast, but might
be nice for a dreamy slow movement for strings?

I'm planning to spend quite a while with the hexany,
and prob. keep going on the 1 3 5 7 having started on it
then try the 1 3 5 11 and 1 3 7 11 as you suggested.

I'll also learn the AB AC etc notation, for the actual
notes played, as I'm sure it will help to help find ones
way around.

Robert

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

Robert!

Robert Walker wrote:

> I wonder what you think about the rolling triads
> dissoncances?

i like them and like the way you use them as much as I can tell. All in all though, i find the
computer as an unfair method to listen music. I don't have it all hooked up to my stereo and the
sound is weak. So I reserve any real judgment as i really can't tell, can only intuit.

>
>
> I think perhaps I took them a bit fast, but might
> be nice for a dreamy slow movement for strings?
>
> I'm planning to spend quite a while with the hexany,
> and prob. keep going on the 1 3 5 7 having started on it
> then try the 1 3 5 11 and 1 3 7 11 as you suggested.
>
> I'll also learn the AB AC etc notation, for the actual
> notes played, as I'm sure it will help to help find ones
> way around.
>
> Robert
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm