Re: Greetings

At 09:29 4/6/01 +0000, you wrote:
Thanks for the welcomes from members on the list.

>Hello Mike (Catharsis), I am VERY disappointed with the way music
>courses do NOT cover microtonality/tuning and temperament. I have,
>by now, contacted six universities. I feel that, apparently, they do
>not think microtonality/tuning and temperament is of any importance
>to students.

I believe at one time there was a class at Cal Poly called acoustic communication where alternate tuning was glanced (it was cancelled due to students not grasping the material). There might be at most one other class besides avante garde performance. The Cal Poly music department falls firmly in on the liberal arts side where you either pick paths with classical or jazz performance.

I unfortunately have little hope for accomplishing much at Cal Poly. They have a fully loaded Kyma system that I really want to get access to, but I was denied to take the synthesis course (though I have personally studied the subject and have much more experience than other students; I've talked to a lot of the students that take the sound design courses). Apparently instead of taking a true academic approach to synthesis the professor is putting on a big theatrical performance 6 weeks into the quarter using all the students from the "synthesis" course. The students will have a minimum of individual control with this performance. In fact he is making them pay a $100 course fee which is going to fund his performance. I consider a fee above tuition for something that is not directly beneficial to the students to be a little too much. I was denied participation because I was not a former student of his, but became rather flustered when he would not even listen to my work or consider me for the class. That is ok though as it is obviously not what I am interested in being involved with anyway.

>When we study the messages on the Tuning group (20756
>at the time of my writing this), we get some idea about the depth and
>breadth, the nature and pre-requisites of the study material, even to
>thoroughly follow those postings. There is NO course available
>anywhere, suitable for entry to the pre-requisites to the kind and
>level of this group.

Yes, that is why I am fascinated by the content even though my comprehension still has some catching up! My musical world (breadth understanding) has exploded in the last year and I am getting my hands into everything. I have been most successful in learning the recording process and the more logical side of the tools I have acquired (helps having the programming background)! Theory is my weak link, but I have time on my side!

>I would have gladly opted for the degree course in Western music, but I >see that it will not help me for my specific requirements. I do not even >know what those requirements are!

I'm glad I stayed with a technical degree, but that has been very limiting as well. I am mostly self taught with programming too. As far as requirements. That is a good question! I am really working hard on getting the recording process (recording/mixing/mastering) down, so I can achieve some level of quality from my home studio. You could be the greatest musician and know the most theory, but if you can't make a decent recording what is the point of it all!

>But for encouraging postings from members like Jacky and Margo; but for >the interest that the members have shown in Indian music; but for the hope >that, sooner or later, somebody will show the way, I would have considered >putting my membership on hold.

Yes, I hope I can also demonstrate how the music I am working with has great applications to microtonality coming from someone who knows very little about the subject. I have several DJ mix sets (the march 7th live set or Divide and Conquer would be the ones to check out) online at my site (http://www.egregious.net/comps/) and I put up too small clips of recent tinkering in the studio (http://www.egregious.net/~catharsis/tracks/). These clips are not finished songs and not necessarily microtonal on intent, but will give some insight on where I am coming from with a fusion of guitar and electronics. I have found free hosting on a T1 and that might not last forever (good to know the local sys admins).

I recently got my hands on the latest Jon Catler CD. I like it; though I would completely record and do different things with the guitar and microtonality on the aesthetic side.

>Did you come across any courses -- universities or Online -- that can help >begin at the beginning? Of course, I understand that your problem is not >so acute as mine. In my csae, I would have to really begin at tne >beginning, unlike you.

I have not formally studied any theory. My composition with the guitar and electronic music is purely from what I "hear in my head" at this point (and I hear a lot and those notes seem to be falling between the keys and frets of the instruments before me). I am working through Harmonic Experience by Walter Mathieu. It is going very slowly, but I am also a full time student and do contract work on the side and that leaves little time to move forward with music theory.

Hope to make some good contacts and get into good conversations this weekend. I have a lot to say about my peer group and the music that is popular and undeground (esoteric). I also have a very open mind and am patient to sit quietly and just learn from those that have prior experience (about everyone else on this list)! So, I won't post much until I have some good questions. If anyone is interested in corresponding privately by all means please do get in contact. I have a personal interest in all of this, so I am moving forward inch by inch.

Thanks,
--Mike

Egregious
"Spiritual renewal through music for those outside the heard."
http://www.egregious.net/

I just joined this group, having been referred here through the Just Intonation
Network. I have three questions:

1) is the Hermode tuning software actually available and will it work on the Mac?
2) what's the best tunable keyboard to buy at an affordable price?
3) is there a patch for Sibelius that allows you to import Johnston's extended just
intonation accidentals?

- Justin Weaver, composer (6ftman.com)

>1) is the Hermode tuning software actually available and will it
>work on the Mac?

Check the site.

>2) what's the best tunable keyboard to buy at an affordable price?

That's a matter of opinion. Use...

http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/

...together with manufacturer's web sites, and your ear.

Probably the most classic tuner synth is the Yamaha TX-81Z, and
I understand there's a healthy supply of these on ebay. The
TX-802 is another one to look for. Also any Kurzweil K2000
series box.

Another route is software synthesis. Midicode (.com) and Rhino
(from Big Tick) are good choices for FM.

>3) is there a patch for Sibelius that allows you to import
>Johnston's extended just intonation accidentals?

To the best of my knowledge, no. I'm still waiting for a
reply from Peter Walton...

>- Justin Weaver, composer (6ftman.com)

Howdy!

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "improvist6ftman" <improvist@u...>

/tuning/topicId_20767.html#45513

> 3) is there a patch for Sibelius that allows you to import
Johnston's extended just
> intonation accidentals?
>
> - Justin Weaver, composer (6ftman.com)

***Hello Justin,

Well, if somebody has made a *font* of the accidentals you can use
them. I use Ezra Sims' accidentals in Sibelius this same way.

However, the accidentals don't *do* anything. In other words, they
don't change the pitch. This you have to do by entering pitch bend
numbers above the pitches you want changed. This *is* possible, as
long as there is only one pitch at a time on a single staff (a MIDI
limitation).

The "plug-in" that Carl Lumma is waiting for actually just
*streamlines* and automates this pitch bend entering process, so it
will enter them in for you, for certain scales...

J. Pehrson

Thanks- I'm not concerned about playback, just "printback". I'm just wondering if
anyone has designed a font of Ben Johnston's accidentals for Sibelius 2. -Justin

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "improvist6ftman" <improvist@u...>
>
> /tuning/topicId_20767.html#45513
>
> > 3) is there a patch for Sibelius that allows you to import
> Johnston's extended just
> > intonation accidentals?
> >
> > - Justin Weaver, composer (6ftman.com)
>
>
> ***Hello Justin,
>
> Well, if somebody has made a *font* of the accidentals you can use
> them. I use Ezra Sims' accidentals in Sibelius this same way.
>
> However, the accidentals don't *do* anything. In other words, they
> don't change the pitch. This you have to do by entering pitch bend
> numbers above the pitches you want changed. This *is* possible, as
> long as there is only one pitch at a time on a single staff (a MIDI
> limitation).
>
> The "plug-in" that Carl Lumma is waiting for actually just
> *streamlines* and automates this pitch bend entering process, so it
> will enter them in for you, for certain scales...
>
> J. Pehrson

Thanks-- I think I misled you with my second question-- what I need is a tunable
instrument, not just the synthesizer, but a decent keyboard with at least 5 octaves,
tunable to any octave at any cents value. What would you recommend for that?
Thanks, -Justin

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >1) is the Hermode tuning software actually available and will it
> >work on the Mac?
>
> Check the site.
>
> >2) what's the best tunable keyboard to buy at an affordable price?
>
> That's a matter of opinion. Use...
>
> http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/
>
> ...together with manufacturer's web sites, and your ear.
>
> Probably the most classic tuner synth is the Yamaha TX-81Z, and
> I understand there's a healthy supply of these on ebay. The
> TX-802 is another one to look for. Also any Kurzweil K2000
> series box.
>
> Another route is software synthesis. Midicode (.com) and Rhino
> (from Big Tick) are good choices for FM.
>
> >3) is there a patch for Sibelius that allows you to import
> >Johnston's extended just intonation accidentals?
>
> To the best of my knowledge, no. I'm still waiting for a
> reply from Peter Walton...
>
> >- Justin Weaver, composer (6ftman.com)
>
> Howdy!
>
> -Carl

>Thanks-- I think I misled you with my second question-- what I need
>is a tunable instrument, not just the synthesizer, but a decent
>keyboard with at least 5 octaves, tunable to any octave at any cents
>value. What would you recommend for that?

These days I think the best way to go is with a midi controller and
external synth. You can get a better controller and a better synth
for less money and you get a lot more flexibility.

If you want the package, just check microtonal-synthesis.com!

-Carl

This is good advice, I'm sure, but there seem to be hundreds of choices on
microtonal-synthesis.com-- I am tuning-sophisticated but electronics-dumb: I write
mostly for acoustic instruments and human voices but would like the option of trying
out new tunings electronically. I'll need recommendations to help narrow my search
for the right package of a controller + synth. I already own an older Roland HP2800
digital piano, but I'm not sure if it is compatible with any controllers. I had always
assumed I would need to buy all new equipment. -Justin

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >Thanks-- I think I misled you with my second question-- what I need
> >is a tunable instrument, not just the synthesizer, but a decent
> >keyboard with at least 5 octaves, tunable to any octave at any cents
> >value. What would you recommend for that?
>
> These days I think the best way to go is with a midi controller and
> external synth. You can get a better controller and a better synth
> for less money and you get a lot more flexibility.
>
> If you want the package, just check microtonal-synthesis.com!
>
> -Carl

>This is good advice, I'm sure, but there seem to be hundreds of
>choices on microtonal-synthesis.com-- I am tuning-sophisticated
>but electronics-dumb: I write mostly for acoustic instruments and
>human voices but would like the option of trying out new tunings
>electronically. I'll need recommendations to help narrow my search
>for the right package of a controller + synth. I already own an
>older Roland HP2800 digital piano, but I'm not sure if it is
>compatible with any controllers. I had always assumed I would need
>to buy all new equipment. -Justin

Justin,

As far as standards, there's none better than MIDI. It's 20 years
old (or something) and an controller from 1983 will work flawlessly
with a synth from today and vice versa. Does your HP2800 have MIDI
out? If so, you can retune it with your PC and Scala for free...

http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/

If by "package + synth" you mean I've now convinced you to go
separate, I've already mentioned the TX-xxx gear from Yamaha as
good cheap microtuning synths. If you mean you still want an
integrated unit (setup/take down is definitely easier), I suggest
you make a list of synths from microtonal-synthesis.com which meet
your needs for tuning, then go to a store somewhere and play them.
If it were me, I'd look for one of these on ebay...

http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/k2000vp.html

http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/k2vx.html

...here's one...

http://tinyurl.com/h4v2?___K2vx_on_ebay

If you're into analog-ish sounds, and you're interested in
automatic JI (www.hermode.com), you might have a look at the
Waldorf Q (current)...

http://www.waldorf-music.com/products/q_keyb/

...or Wave (out of production)...

[none on ebay curretly]

Really, everyone's tuning needs are different, and everyone's
synth needs are different. So you really need to check this
stuff out on your own.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> As far as standards, there's none better than MIDI.

Midi suffers from many limitiations. 128 notes is not enough notes.
16 channels is not enough channels. The 10/16 drumset channel is the
source of many problems. Midi files are typically a disorganized mess.

I've been thinking of checking out other formats, such as mod, to see
if they are any better.

Thanks-- that's the sort of info I was looking for. It looks like I can use my HP2800
with Scala, since it does run on Mac, although the OS X version is still a beta... for free
too! Thanks much,

Justin

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> >This is good advice, I'm sure, but there seem to be hundreds of
> >choices on microtonal-synthesis.com-- I am tuning-sophisticated
> >but electronics-dumb: I write mostly for acoustic instruments and
> >human voices but would like the option of trying out new tunings
> >electronically. I'll need recommendations to help narrow my search
> >for the right package of a controller + synth. I already own an
> >older Roland HP2800 digital piano, but I'm not sure if it is
> >compatible with any controllers. I had always assumed I would need
> >to buy all new equipment. -Justin
>
> Justin,
>
> As far as standards, there's none better than MIDI. It's 20 years
> old (or something) and an controller from 1983 will work flawlessly
> with a synth from today and vice versa. Does your HP2800 have MIDI
> out? If so, you can retune it with your PC and Scala for free...
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/scala/
>
> If by "package + synth" you mean I've now convinced you to go
> separate, I've already mentioned the TX-xxx gear from Yamaha as
> good cheap microtuning synths. If you mean you still want an
> integrated unit (setup/take down is definitely easier), I suggest
> you make a list of synths from microtonal-synthesis.com which meet
> your needs for tuning, then go to a store somewhere and play them.
> If it were me, I'd look for one of these on ebay...
>
> http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/k2000vp.html
>
> http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/k2vx.html
>
> ...here's one...
>
> http://tinyurl.com/h4v2?___K2vx_on_ebay
>
> If you're into analog-ish sounds, and you're interested in
> automatic JI (www.hermode.com), you might have a look at the
> Waldorf Q (current)...
>
> http://www.waldorf-music.com/products/q_keyb/
>
> ...or Wave (out of production)...
>
> [none on ebay curretly]
>
> Really, everyone's tuning needs are different, and everyone's
> synth needs are different. So you really need to check this
> stuff out on your own.
>
> -Carl

>> As far as standards, there's none better than MIDI.
>
>Midi suffers from many limitiations. 128 notes is not enough
>notes.

Sure, it ain't perfect. But I don't know of any other
standard so old and still so adequate. Do you? CD audio,
possibly.

>16 channels is not enough channels.

MIDI isn't limited to 16 channels.

>I've been thinking of checking out other formats, such as
>mod, to see if they are any better.

Please report back. Also, there have been various exteneded
MIDI proposals over the years. One, from right here in
Berkeley, Paul V. told me about. I'm trying to think of
their name...

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <ekin@l...> wrote:

> >16 channels is not enough channels.
>
> MIDI isn't limited to 16 channels.

I don't think Scala gives more.

> >I've been thinking of checking out other formats, such as
> >mod, to see if they are any better.
>
> Please report back. Also, there have been various exteneded
> MIDI proposals over the years. One, from right here in
> Berkeley, Paul V. told me about. I'm trying to think of
> their name...

Extending midi is probably the way to go.

on 7/16/03 3:59 PM, Carl Lumma <ekin@lumma.org> wrote:

>>> As far as standards, there's none better than MIDI.
>>
>> Midi suffers from many limitiations. 128 notes is not enough
>> notes.
>
> Sure, it ain't perfect. But I don't know of any other
> standard so old and still so adequate. Do you? CD audio,
> possibly.
>
>> 16 channels is not enough channels.
>
> MIDI isn't limited to 16 channels.

16 channels per physical MIDI bus.

>> I've been thinking of checking out other formats, such as
>> mod, to see if they are any better.
>
> Please report back. Also, there have been various exteneded
> MIDI proposals over the years. One, from right here in
> Berkeley, Paul V. told me about. I'm trying to think of
> their name...

Well, there is OSC (Open Sound Control) which is from CNMAT in Berkeley.
But this I think is so broad that it might not be fair to compare it to
MIDI. I don't know if there is an OSC file format, but I figure there must
be. But I don't know if it is relevant since it is far from an industry
standard at this point. I bring it up since no one mentioned it, but don't
know very much. However doing a site search at:

http://cnmat.berkeley.edu/

appears to yield a lot of info, and the overview is at:

http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/OSC/

The OSC spec (linked from the above page) says:

OpenSound Control (OSC) is an open, transport-independent, message-based
protocol developed for communication among computers, sound
synthesizers, and other multimedia devices.

Regarding any interoperability with MIDI, I found no information, and I
suspect MIDI is probably too tiny of a subset to be of much use in relation
to OSC.

-Kurt

>
> -Carl
>
>
>
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>> >16 channels is not enough channels.
>>
>> MIDI isn't limited to 16 channels.
>
>I don't think Scala gives more.

If so, that's a scala limitation, or maybe
a General Midi limitation, but not a MIDI
limitation.

>> Please report back. Also, there have been various exteneded
>> MIDI proposals over the years. One, from right here in
>> Berkeley, Paul V. told me about. I'm trying to think of
>> their name...
>
>Extending midi is probably the way to go.

For my needs, multiple instruments s/b quite sufficient.
But I'll try and remember the name.

-Carl

>Well, there is OSC (Open Sound Control) which is
>from CNMAT in Berkeley.

What I can't remember was something else. A
failed private venture, IIRC. I'll ask Paul.

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "improvist6ftman" <improvist@u...>

/tuning/topicId_20767.html#45535

wrote:
> Thanks- I'm not concerned about playback, just "printback". I'm
just wondering if
> anyone has designed a font of Ben Johnston's accidentals for
Sibelius 2. -Justin
>

***Got it.

Well, it wouldn't have to be designed *specifically* for Sibelius,
since Sibelius handles almost all conceivable fonts, including all
PostScript ones.

As I recall, David Doty had some music at the Claremont microfest in
the Johnston system done on Finale. I believe he used a font. You
should ask him:

dbd"at"justintonation.net

"at" = at sign, obviously

Kyle Gann also uses the Johnston system, since Johnston was his main
teacher. At the microfest (a couple of years ago in 2001) I remember
him wanting to *get* the font from Doty and he was just "inking in"
the Johnston accidentals at that time, if I remember correctly.

Good luck!

Joe Pehrson

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "improvist6ftman" <improvist@u...>

/tuning/topicId_20767.html#45536

wrote:
> Thanks-- I think I misled you with my second question-- what I need
is a tunable
> instrument, not just the synthesizer, but a decent keyboard with at
least 5 octaves,
> tunable to any octave at any cents value. What would you recommend
for that?
> Thanks, -Justin
>

***I think Carl is leading you right. You can get an *seven* octave
piano "dummy" keyboard (MIDI out only) and a used TX81Z for very
little money.

Maybe not the very most "state of the art" thing going today
(probably softsynths are) but certainly a microtonal mainstay...

(That's what *I* use...)

Joseph Pehrson

My Roland HP2800 has MIDI out and in-- would that be sufficient to use with TX81Z.
Remember, I'm not interested in just playing back microtonal music, but improvising
it real-time on the Roland. Whatever I choose would have to allow real-time output
from the individually tuned keys. -Justin

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "improvist6ftman" <improvist@u...>
>
> /tuning/topicId_20767.html#45536
>
> wrote:
> > Thanks-- I think I misled you with my second question-- what I need
> is a tunable
> > instrument, not just the synthesizer, but a decent keyboard with at
> least 5 octaves,
> > tunable to any octave at any cents value. What would you recommend
> for that?
> > Thanks, -Justin
> >
>
>
> ***I think Carl is leading you right. You can get an *seven* octave
> piano "dummy" keyboard (MIDI out only) and a used TX81Z for very
> little money.
>
> Maybe not the very most "state of the art" thing going today
> (probably softsynths are) but certainly a microtonal mainstay...
>
> (That's what *I* use...)
>
> Joseph Pehrson

To further clarify, what I'm interested in doing is tuning keys individually in real time.
This will require a lot of control, no?

A friend recommended these:

Doepfer Drehbank
A MIDI control box with 64 knobs.
http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=2994

Doepfer Regelwerk
A MIDI control box/analog sequencer with 24 high quality ALPS faders
with 48 related buttons and LEDs (2 buttons and 2 LEDs for each
fader).
http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=2993

JLCooper CS-32 MiniDesk
A miniature control surface for fast access to commonly used functions
with 32 Dedicated Faders/Channel Strips.
http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=3196

Kenton Control Freak Studio
A programmable midi controller, like Kenton Control Freak Original,
but
with added control of 16 faders/16 buttons and 64 user memories.
http://www.audiomidi.com/common/cfm/product.cfm?Product_ID=2267

Are these on the right track?

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "improvist6ftman" <improvist@u...> wrote:
> My Roland HP2800 has MIDI out and in-- would that be sufficient to use with
TX81Z.
> Remember, I'm not interested in just playing back microtonal music, but
improvising
> it real-time on the Roland. Whatever I choose would have to allow real-time output
> from the individually tuned keys. -Justin
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "improvist6ftman" <improvist@u...>
> >
> > /tuning/topicId_20767.html#45536
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Thanks-- I think I misled you with my second question-- what I need
> > is a tunable
> > > instrument, not just the synthesizer, but a decent keyboard with at
> > least 5 octaves,
> > > tunable to any octave at any cents value. What would you recommend
> > for that?
> > > Thanks, -Justin
> > >
> >
> >
> > ***I think Carl is leading you right. You can get an *seven* octave
> > piano "dummy" keyboard (MIDI out only) and a used TX81Z for very
> > little money.
> >
> > Maybe not the very most "state of the art" thing going today
> > (probably softsynths are) but certainly a microtonal mainstay...
> >
> > (That's what *I* use...)
> >
> > Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Kurt Bigler <kkb@b...> wrote:

> >> 16 channels is not enough channels.
> >
> > MIDI isn't limited to 16 channels.
>
> 16 channels per physical MIDI bus.

I have no interest in physical midi buses, since I am using midi as a
score format. Can I get beyond the limitations doing this?

>I have no interest in physical midi buses, since I am using midi as a
>score format. Can I get beyond the limitations doing this?

Divide your score into two or more sequence or midi files, process
them separately and mix the resulting audio files.

Manuel

>>I have no interest in physical midi buses, since I am using midi as a
>>score format. Can I get beyond the limitations doing this?
>
>Divide your score into two or more sequence or midi files, process
>them separately and mix the resulting audio files.

http://www.midi.org/about-midi/smf/rp019.shtml

-Carl

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Manuel Op de Coul"
<manuel.op.de.coul@e...> wrote:
> >I have no interest in physical midi buses, since I am using midi
as a
> >score format. Can I get beyond the limitations doing this?
>
> Divide your score into two or more sequence or midi files, process
> them separately and mix the resulting audio files.

That has occurred to me, but I've not been entirely happy with my
experiments with audio file mixing. I'll give it a shot when we can
get the bugs worked out of the Scala to AC process.

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> If you're into analog-ish sounds, and you're interested in
> automatic JI (www.hermode.com), you might have a look at the
> Waldorf Q (current)...
>
> http://www.waldorf-music.com/products/q_keyb/

I'm researching this kind of stuff too and I didn't find mention of Hermode tuning
anywhere on the Waldorf site.

I did see mention of it on the Access site:

http://www.access-music.de/events/06-2003/os6.php4 (Scroll down to "Pure
Tuning")

Paolo

I just found this group, so this response is a bit late, but this
subject is something I've
been looking into recently:

The Waldorf Q/Q+ do have Hermode tuning - they refer to it as "HMT"
and describe it in the manuals (which are there for download on the
site). Access
also has a version they call "Pure Tuning" in the latest Access Virus
C OS update (see
the link in the previous post below).

I've written to both companies asking if they intend to go further
with tunings by allowing user defined tuning tables -

Access says they have discussed it seriously but don't have a planned
release date. Sounds promising.

Waldorf said they could not do this with the sound engine in the
Q/Q+. They also
said they had not heard of anyone caring about this in years. Ok..
sorry I asked!

I have a Kurzweil K2600X - nice and flexible, but wading throughmenus
is not so fun
for sound programming. Thus my interest in a virtual analog or true
analog synth
with lots of direct knobs for sound creation. Now if I could just
find one that allowed
for world music tunings...

Chris

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "paolovalladolid" <phv40@h...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:
> > If you're into analog-ish sounds, and you're interested in
> > automatic JI (www.hermode.com), you might have a look at the
> > Waldorf Q (current)...
> >
> > http://www.waldorf-music.com/products/q_keyb/
>
> I'm researching this kind of stuff too and I didn't find mention of
Hermode tuning
> anywhere on the Waldorf site.
>
> I did see mention of it on the Access site:
>
> http://www.access-music.de/events/06-2003/os6.php4 (Scroll down to
"Pure
> Tuning")
>
> Paolo

In a message dated 2003:09:11 08:12:40 AM, "Chris Echohawk"
<jce33@prodigy.net> writes:

>I have a Kurzweil K2600X - nice and flexible, but wading throughmenus
>is not so fun for sound programming. Thus my interest in a virtual analog
or true
>analog synth with lots of direct knobs for sound creation. Now if I could
just
>find one that allowed for world music tunings...

Hmm, try looking into the Buchla _Thunder_ which as far as I know is an
apparently reaaaaally adaptable _"hands-on"_ synth.
Don Buchla, the inventor, comments on that the command language for data
input is very flexible: "If you can imagine a musical structure, there's a
good chance you can implement it."
Invented in 1990, the Thunder's user interface is a tactile touch-plate
array in a 2-dimensional surface divided into fifty separate regions or "keys"
instead of the ubiquitous piano-styled 12tET keyboard system. "Each key is
sensitive not only to the presence of a finger, but also to the degree of finger
pressure and the location of finger contact within the area of the key. Each
key is separately programmable: the user decides what sounds should come from
different finger locations and pressures...."
[quotes from _Gravikords, Whirlies, & Pyrophones: Experimental Musical
Instruments_ written and produced by Bart Hopkin, foreword by Tom Waits,
Ellipsis Arts, 1996]

Personally, I am more intrigued and taken with microtonal acoustic and
electro-acoustic instruments - esp'ly metal percussion and droning
strings/springs/"ribbons" & rods (i.e. bamboo tube-zithers, stick-zithers [i.e. vina, sitar
and tambura] and longboard zithers [i.e. qin, koto, kayagum, etc.];
bullroarers; spinning buzz-disks and buzzsticks; jawharps; perpetually out-of-tune toy
pianos; hurdy-gurdies; discarded, semi-dysfunctional music boxes and
noise-making toys; _objets trouve_/"found objects", etc.)

From memory, my hyperpolyglot Russian friend Yuri "Ure" Mayakovskii
recently wrote the following short neo-Joycean prose-poem to describe his "first
best" impressions of my live improv performances in Houston, Texas circa
very-late-1980's:

>>
>> sonically channelinchallengin late, great Toru Takemitsu-San
re-incarn-elated >>reriverrerunn'dfastpastslamdancedzorn as dha Feral Kid / a la dhat _Road
>>Warrior_ flick / inna lush mutatus.mutatandi fungoid landscRape o'
MaxSurrealist >>Ernest's painting _Europe After the Rain_ with CyberMeestahrrr Bruce
Sterling's >>sci-fi eco-set in post-revolution Green Brunei ...
>> plentiattitude sonoDaDa --- nada sonata, mulch offdacuff.
>> Ur AUM (non-0hm, verfall just-is noh electricity ---
>> jus' raw harmonic insektsions 'n' ruff
galax-o-diezectorzpazmizmz)
>> Ah! AWE! OH OOHHHHH O'STRANENII!
>> ((xenos ya know...))
>>VERRRRRYVERRRrrrrFRRRrrEMDUNGSEFFEKT! VRiL HEAVEN&HELLix!
>>DATa's DATSUZOKU! dare yu go...
>>
>> aahh! so-so improvidenced cinemanoir.veri.tay
>> sutra.tru musica.subtili
ssssatori!
>>

--- º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º ø,¸¸,ø º°`°º º°`°º ø,¸~->

Hanuman Zhang, musical mad scientist
(no, I don't wanna take over the world, just the sound spectrum...)
http://www.boheme-magazine.net

"... simple, chaotic, anarchic and menacing.... This is what people of today
have lost and need most-- the ability to experience permanent bodily and
mental ecstasy, to be a receiving station for messages howling by on the ether from
other worlds and nonhuman entities, those peculiar short-wave messages which
come in static-free in the secret pleasure center in the brain." - Slava Ranko
(Donald L. Philippi)

"What strange risk of hearing can bring sound to music - a hearing whose
obligation awakens a sensibility so new that it is forever a unique, new-born,
anti-death surprise, created now and now and now. .. a hearing whose moment
in time is always daybreak." - Lucia Dlugoszewski

"There's a rabbinical tradition that the music in heaven will be microtonal"
-annotative interpretation of Schottenstein Tehillim, 92:4, the verse being:
"Upon a ten-stringed * instrument and upon lyre, with singing accompanied by
harp." [* utilizing new tones]

"A fretted bass is a fretless bass with training wheels. ;)" - Danny Wier

NADA BRAHMA - Sanskrit, "sound [is the] Godhead"

"God utters me like a word containing a partial thought of himself." -Thomas
Merton

LILA - Sanskrit, "divine play/sport/whimsy" - "the universe is what happens
when God wants to play" - "joyous exercise of spontaneity involved in the art
of creation"

Hello Everyone,
First and foremost, thank you for allowing me to join and possibly
even participate in this group. Like many folks, I first discovered the
joys of listening to non-standard tunings with Wendy Carlos' "Beauty In
The Beast" years ago and from reading articles in Keyboard Magazine
about Harry Partch. I even purchased a Kurzweil K-1000SEIIext during
the early 90's at an attempt to make sense out of it all. Without a
solid musical and mathematical education, it was pretty much in vain.
Currently, I'm about to go back on the road as an OTR driver and,
during my offtime, I thought I'd try to find some sort of
correspondence course that caters to microtonality. If any of you have
any suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated!
Because I'm functionally new at this, I won't be posting much, but
I'll be reading whatever posts come in.
Thank you all for your time and have a wonderful week!

Roger

Hi Roger,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Dale Huff" <rogerdalehuff@...>
wrote:

> Currently, I'm about to go back on the road as an OTR
> driver and, during my offtime, I thought I'd try to find some
> sort of correspondence course that caters to microtonality.
> If any of you have any suggestions, they would be greatly
> appreciated!

Welcome to the group!

I can suggest that you spend some time roaming around in
my Tonalsoft Encyclopedia of Microtonal Music-theory:

http://tonalsoft.com/enc/encyclopedia.aspx

Just follow the alphabetical index bar at the top of
each page. I recommend that you use either IE or Firefox
as your browser. You'll have trouble with Opera and Safari.

There's a ton of stuff in there.

There's also an unbelievable amount of quality info
in the archives of this group, and there are also offshoot
groups that spun off from this one, such as:

/tuning-math/

/makemicromusic/

/celestial-tuning/

These are supposed to be more tighly-focused on
the topics by which they are named, but of course
internet groups always veer off-topic from time to time.
I own celestial-tuning and have tried to keep it on-topic;
the other two have more members are wander a bit more.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software

Roger Dale Huff wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> First and foremost, thank you for allowing me to join and possibly > even participate in this group. Like many folks, I first discovered the > joys of listening to non-standard tunings with Wendy Carlos' "Beauty In > The Beast" years ago and from reading articles in Keyboard Magazine > about Harry Partch. I even purchased a Kurzweil K-1000SEIIext during > the early 90's at an attempt to make sense out of it all. Without a > solid musical and mathematical education, it was pretty much in vain.
> Currently, I'm about to go back on the road as an OTR driver and, > during my offtime, I thought I'd try to find some sort of > correspondence course that caters to microtonality. If any of you have > any suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated!
> Because I'm functionally new at this, I won't be posting much, but > I'll be reading whatever posts come in.
> Thank you all for your time and have a wonderful week!
> Roger-

Nice to have you on board.

It will serve both of our purposes if you wanted to correspond with me privately. I am trying to develop a "tuning for beginners/dummies" public face (for the purposes of a series I am starting, midwestmicrofest), and you want to make sense out of it all. To that end, if you want to take me up on that, respond to this post and I'll contact you.

Best,
Aaron.