Hi From London

The Barbican concert went well and we will be doing 2 performances now in
Bergen, Norway in late May. Dark Brother was exciting and the Li Po went
well, too (though there was apparently a fist fight during A Dream which I
only heard about afterwards. (I was too engrossed in the performance and
luckily it didn't register.) Incident at Drakes Bay is pure improvisation
and ran 17 minutes. People were enthusiastic. i personally enjoyed playing
percussion and intoning simultaneously. Met with Roger Merrick of the
British Harry Partch Society (and his brother) and had a great evening back
at the hotel. The plan is to record the Li Po when we get back.

Best to the list, Johnny Reinhard

Johnny Reinhard wrote:

> The Barbican concert went well and we will be doing 2 performances now
> in Bergen, Norway in late May. Dark Brother was exciting and the Li Po
> went well, too (though there was apparently a fist fight during A Dream
> which I only heard about afterwards. (I was too engrossed in the
> performance and luckily it didn't register.) Incident at Drakes Bay is
> pure improvisation and ran 17 minutes. People were enthusiastic. i
> personally enjoyed playing percussion and intoning simultaneously. Met
> with Roger Merrick of the British Harry Partch Society (and his
> brother) and had a great evening back at the hotel. The plan is to
> record the Li Po when we get back.

Well, I'm glad you weren't distracted by that little scuffle. Also that
you detected enthusiasm, because you got a very hostile response where I
was sitting, at least for the songs. In particular, the man sitting just
down from me was making generally insulting remarks about you, the music
and those of us who liked it. As he was distracting me from the music, I
told him in no uncertain terms to keep quiet. He avoided my suggestion
and so, not being blessed with diplomacy, I hit him. I'm not sure what he
said after that, but I remember being very mad at him, so I hit him a few
more times. Then somebody came and sat between us, and eventually I got
moved to a different seat. Fortunately, they did let me stay for the rest
of the concert, and the audience in my new location received it with the
silence customary at such events. So the moral of the story is that
violence can solve your problems, I suppose.

I still wasn't in the right mood to take in the music for the first
half, but it did sound good.

The Gesualdo was the highlight. It didn't really fit the images, but was
well sung. The harmony came through well, although there were a few of
the standard choral mistuned unisons. Did you ask the group how the
approached intonation?

Later on in my travels, I gained entry to the British Library and looked
through an edition of Vicentino's music. He was fairly progressive, but
not as much as in his theories. Most pieces fit 12 notes, I don't think
any more than 13. There's one interesting progression:

G G B D
D Eb G# A
G
Bb E A
G Eb E D

Root progression by a chromatic semitone, one voice moving by an augmented
third and only one voice moving by 5-limit interval to balance it. Fairly
unconventional, but as much so as it gets. Presumably, he had to keep the
harmony simple enough to be sung, not being rich and powerful enough to
keep and train his own musicians. No pieces were included for his
archicembalo.

I wasn't allowed to make any photocopies, as the modern edition is still
in copyright.

Graham

(back home after a good night's sleep)

--- In tuning@y..., graham@m... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20378.html#20401

> Johnny Reinhard wrote:
>
> > The Barbican concert went well <snip>
>
> Well, I'm glad you weren't distracted by that little scuffle.
> Also that you detected enthusiasm, because you got a very
> hostile response where I was sitting, at least for the songs.
> In particular, the man sitting just down from me was making
> generally insulting remarks about you, the music and those of
> us who liked it. As he was distracting me from the music, I
> told him in no uncertain terms to keep quiet. He avoided my
> suggestion and so, not being blessed with diplomacy, I hit him.
> I'm not sure what he said after that, but I remember being very
> mad at him, so I hit him a few more times.

Wow, this sounds just like the old Schoenberg concerts!
I didn't think fist fights happened at musical concerts anymore.
The "classical" music scene certainly seems to be more
lively (and opinionated) in England than over here!

-monz

--- In tuning@y..., graham@m... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20378.html#20401

>In particular, the man sitting just down from me was making
generally insulting remarks about you, the music and those of us who
liked it. As he was distracting me from the music, I told him in no
uncertain terms to keep quiet. He avoided my suggestion and so, not
being blessed with diplomacy, I hit him. I'm not sure what he said
after that, but I remember being very mad at him, so I hit him a few
more times.

Gee, Graham... and he STILL didn't stop?? Perhaps you needed to be a
bit more "energetic"... or perhaps some kind of blunt object...??
Hmmm. Well, this is certainly one advantage of "cyberspace..."
we're safely at "arms length" from one another so to speak. Seems,
though, you were being perhaps a tad "corporal," wouldn't you say??
Are you sure you weren't "planted" in the audience to lend more
"excitement..."??

__________ ________ _______ _____
Joseph Pehrson

> graham@m... wrote:
>
> In particular, the man sitting just down from me was making
> generally insulting remarks about you, the music and those of us who
> liked it. As he was distracting me from the music, I told him in no
> uncertain terms to keep quiet. He avoided my suggestion and so, not
> being blessed with diplomacy, I hit him. I'm not sure what he said
> after that, but I remember being very mad at him, so I hit him a few
> more times.

Graham could come up to Edinburgh and hit a few snooty detractors of microtonality for me. I'd do
it myself but I'm sworn to non-violence.

Monzo wrote:

> Wow, this sounds just like the old Schoenberg concerts!
> I didn't think fist fights happened at musical concerts anymore.
> The "classical" music scene certainly seems to be more
> lively (and opinionated) in England than over here!

I hardly constitute a statistically significant sample. Along with
everything else, I'm fully aware of the 2nd Viennese incidents.

Actually, I think part of the problem was that a lot of people were there
to see The Delgados, and so weren't clued up on concert hall etiquette.
There was applause for each song which is a good clue. So starting with a
guy half singing, half shouting with an out of tune cello behind him may
have been a bit much for them. And they didn't realise you're supposed to
save your disapproval for the end.

Joseph Pehrson wrote:

> Gee, Graham... and he STILL didn't stop?? Perhaps you needed to be a
> bit more "energetic"... or perhaps some kind of blunt object...??
> Hmmm. Well, this is certainly one advantage of "cyberspace..."
> we're safely at "arms length" from one another so to speak. Seems,
> though, you were being perhaps a tad "corporal," wouldn't you say??
> Are you sure you weren't "planted" in the audience to lend more
> "excitement..."??

In fact, my recollection is that he didn't stop talking even then. I try
to avoid confrontation online and off, but people chatting when I'm trying
to listen to something and slagging off music they plainly haven't given a
chance are two things that particularly annoy me. So there you go, I did
what I did.

Alison Monteith wrote:

> Graham could come up to Edinburgh and hit a few snooty detractors of
> microtonality for me. I'd do
> it myself but I'm sworn to non-violence.

I don't want to make a habit of it, because there's always a danger
they'll hit back. Even if not, I'm likely to come off the worse. My
chest muscles aren't very strong, so my ribs are still aching as I type.

Graham

--- In tuning@y..., graham@m... wrote:
> I don't want to make a habit of it, because there's always a danger
> they'll hit back. Even if not, I'm likely to come off the worse.
> My chest muscles aren't very strong, so my ribs are still aching
> as I type.

This reminded me of an incident the last time I was in London.

It was kind of a quiet night for concerts, so we decided to take in a
concert by the Matrix Ensemble, with the added bonus (for a Yank)
that it was being taped for broadcast on the Beeb. In any event, we
sat down behind a kind of dorky character with bad hair, who was ever
so chatty leading up to the first piece; my teeth were really on edge
that he wouldn't shut up once the concert started. Turned out the
opening work was by Mark-Anthony Turnage, who was a friend of the
leader of the group and wrote the piece for him as a birthday present.

I found the piece somewhat underwhelming, and had been interested in
it, as Turnage had for a while been one of the most successful young
lions and I hadn't heard all that much of his work. Fortunately, the
fellow in front had /not/ disturbed the performance, but I was about
to launch into a sotto-voce diatribe about the lack of excellence in
composing these days, when Mr. Turnage stood up to be acknowledged by
the audience.

Bad hair and all.

Next time I better strike first; my ribs only hurt from the laughing!

Cheers,
Jon

Back from London,

Sorry I didn't meet you, Grahm. It's interesting that the producer for the
Barbican "Outsider" show announced to the audience that "You may be
disturbed" by the material. Perhaps, he should have announced that after the
songs....(hmnn)

It felt good intoning Li Po. As I age, my voice enriches and the pitches
become etched. There are a few still to learn...An exile, I ascend this
tower.

The Gesualdo sung (Tenebre-14 singers) was in 12-tET, but they softened their
major thirds (making them smaller), while tweaking the fifths to pure. I
missed it due to responsibilities, but I a number of them came to the sound
check to listen and we had a nice chat. I mentioned the Tuning List
discussion and they responded that I could tell them the microtonal view. I
answered, "Well, there are several microtonal views," and listed those we've
discussed.

September 29 and October 18, 2001: 20th Anniversary concerts of the American
Festival of Microtonal Music. Programs being worked on feverishly.

Best, Johnny Reinhard
AFMM

Hello, there, Graham Breed and everyone.

Please let me clarify that Vicentino did indeed write known music in
his "enharmonic" genus using direct melodic steps of 1/5-tone, the
"minor diesis" on his archicembalo dividing the octave into 31 equal
or near-equal parts.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, the only such pieces which have come
down to us from an apparently much larger original selection are those
included in his treatise of 1555: Nicola Vicentino, _Ancient Music
Adapted to Modern Practice_, tr. Maria Rika Maniates, ed. Claude
V. Palisca (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1996), ISBN
0-300-06601-5, with Vicentino's discussion and examples of "enharmonic
cadences for four voices" at pp. 207-209, and enharmonic madrigal
excerpts and sections plus a complete motet, _Musica prisca caput_, at
pp. 209-222.

This small sample of enharmonic writing includes pieces, madrigal
sections, and shorter examples or excerpts which happen to fit a
pattern (as far as I can see) that any one piece or example uses a
range of up to 24 notes per octave expressible in terms of two 12-note
meantone ranges a diesis apart, e.g. Bb-D#/Bb*-Eb or Ab-C#/Ab*-Db.

A "Complete Works" of Vicentino based on his published collections of
music apart from the treatise would not include these enharmonic
compositions or fragments, and thus would not reveal the full range of
his known music.

Both Vicentino's treatise and the testimony of a contemporary musician
such as Vincenzo Galilei indicate that the archicembalo was used as a
standard in training singers to sing in the enharmonic genus, so that
pieces of this kind might have a rather specialized audience,
especially in an era when many madrigal collections were aimed at
music lovers who would themselves be the performers.

To sum up: the complete enharmonic motet _Musica prisca caput_ and other
examples and excerpts in Vicentino's treatise, rather than his other
published musical collections, are the place to find examples of his
enharmonic style, using up to 24 notes per octave in this very small
sampling.

Most respectfully,

Margo Schulter
mschulter@value.net

Johnny Reinhard wrote:

> Sorry I didn't meet you, Grahm.

Well, you'll have to come back and do some more concerts!

> It felt good intoning Li Po. As I age, my voice enriches and the
> pitches become etched. There are a few still to learn...An exile, I
> ascend this tower.

I can't vouch for your accuracy, although a spectroscope could. But you
have a wonderfully natural style. That must be difficult to get right on
top of the tuning, and it seemed appropriate.

> The Gesualdo sung (Tenebre-14 singers) was in 12-tET, but they softened
> their major thirds (making them smaller), while tweaking the fifths to
> pure. I missed it due to responsibilities, but I a number of them came
> to the sound check to listen and we had a nice chat. I mentioned the
> Tuning List discussion and they responded that I could tell them the
> microtonal view. I answered, "Well, there are several microtonal
> views," and listed those we've discussed.

Of course, this was sacred music and so not as chromatic as the late
madrigals. I have found some more interesting details in those, I'll
write it up sometime.

Graham

Margo Schulter wrote:

> Hello, there, Graham Breed and everyone.
>
> Please let me clarify that Vicentino did indeed write known music in
> his "enharmonic" genus using direct melodic steps of 1/5-tone, the
> "minor diesis" on his archicembalo dividing the octave into 31 equal
> or near-equal parts.

Hmm, shame it didn't make it into the "Opera Omnia" then.

> Unfortunately, as far as I know, the only such pieces which have come
> down to us from an apparently much larger original selection are those
> included in his treatise of 1555: Nicola Vicentino, _Ancient Music
> Adapted to Modern Practice_, tr. Maria Rika Maniates, ed. Claude
> V. Palisca (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1996), ISBN
> 0-300-06601-5, with Vicentino's discussion and examples of "enharmonic
> cadences for four voices" at pp. 207-209, and enharmonic madrigal
> excerpts and sections plus a complete motet, _Musica prisca caput_, at
> pp. 209-222.

I checked my order with Amazon this morning. They now have this in stock
for me! I didn't look for it at the library, as I already had it on
order. A complete motet, I'll look forward to that.

> This small sample of enharmonic writing includes pieces, madrigal
> sections, and shorter examples or excerpts which happen to fit a
> pattern (as far as I can see) that any one piece or example uses a
> range of up to 24 notes per octave expressible in terms of two 12-note
> meantone ranges a diesis apart, e.g. Bb-D#/Bb*-Eb or Ab-C#/Ab*-Db.

Shorter examples or excerpts is how I understood it. If only he'd been
able to fit his ideas to 19 notes, perhaps they would have been playable
on more widespread instruments.

> A "Complete Works" of Vicentino based on his published collections of
> music apart from the treatise would not include these enharmonic
> compositions or fragments, and thus would not reveal the full range of
> his known music.

That'll be it. Although at least I expected the introduction to mention
the absence of a whole motet. I'm also suspicious that it includes only
books 1 and 5 of madrigals. What's going on there?

> Both Vicentino's treatise and the testimony of a contemporary musician
> such as Vincenzo Galilei indicate that the archicembalo was used as a
> standard in training singers to sing in the enharmonic genus, so that
> pieces of this kind might have a rather specialized audience,
> especially in an era when many madrigal collections were aimed at
> music lovers who would themselves be the performers.

It's becoming apparent to me that chromaticism/microtonality was very much
an economic matter at that time. Gesualdo used a greater range of
accidentals than other composers not only because he had more adventurous
tastes but because he could take the time to train his musicians to sing
them. And he subsidise the eventual publication.

I don't know much of Vicentino's biography, but it seems he had a high-up
job with the resources at his disposal to build these instruments. And
nobody without those instruments could perform music written for them. As
for the archicembalo's fate, we have Watkins' salutary "account of
Bottrigari, who states the great number of strings in this instrument made
it very difficult to tune as well as to play. He adds that, because of
this difficulty, most skilful players seldom cared to meddle with it,
although Luzzachi knew and understood it and was able to play upon it with
amazing skill." [p.54 of Watkins' Gesualdo biography, (2nd edition 1991)]

Graham

In a message dated 3/26/01 5:14:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
graham@microtonal.co.uk writes:

> I can't vouch for your accuracy, although a spectroscope could. But you
> have a wonderfully natural style. That must be difficult to get right on
> top of the tuning, and it seemed appropriate.
>
>

This is interesting: I'm not sure that the spectroscope could measure
accuracy for performance. Actually, hearing in the mind's ear a perfect just
intonation relationship is an early part in learning a piece by Partch (or
anyone else). Fixed, measured intervals are the icons of meaning. But the
actual expression overrides, or at least leads the intonation.

The actual phonemes of words color intonation. When Partch has 5 words on
the same pitch (read: vocal tone), the natural modulation of the voice, as it
relates to a natural expression, does a micro-dance regardless of any same
pitch indication. Monotone speaking is not an option. Robots need not apply.

In one perspective, Partch is tempering American English speech by his just
intonation ratios.

Johnny Reinhard