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Re: Paul Erlich on 55-tET as possible 18th-century vocal model

🔗M. Schulter <MSCHULTER@VALUE.NET>

3/20/2001 8:42:28 PM

Hello, there, everyone, and to my earlier comments on the very
valuable translations and remarks by Ibo Ortgies concerning guidelines
for vocal intonation in the 18th-century German tradition, I would
like to add a brilliant hypothesis by Paul Erlich concerning the
theory of dieses or commas in this era.

Although in my initial post I proposed that references to division of
the whole-tone into "nine commas" might draw on the tradition of
15th-century Pythagorean models, or the later Mercator/Kircher model
of 53-tone equal temperament (53-tET), Paul has masterfully suggested
an alternative model of 55-tET.

In this tuning system, which Paul mentions in connection with the
great Baroque composer Telemann, we have a whole-tone of 9 steps (as
in 53-tET also), but a regular diatonic semitone of 5 steps (rather
than the 4 steps of 53-tET, closely approximating the Pythagorean
limma at 256:243 or ~90.22 cents).

Thus in 55-tET, the large diatonic semitone of 5/9-tone (~109.09
cents) and the small chromatic semitone of 4/9-tone (~87.27 cents)
differ by a "comma" of 1/9-tone or ~21.82 cents, equal to the diesis
whether defined as the difference between such accidentals as D#-Eb
(Eb higher), or the difference between 12 pure fifths and 7 pure
octaves, or the difference between 3 pure major thirds (~392.72 cents
each) and a pure octave.

The temperament of the 55-tET fifth is around 3.77 cents, not too far
from 1/6-comma meantone (~3.58 cents), so that this tuning would
nicely fit period sensibilities as reflected by Silbermann's organs.

The diatonic semitone of 9/55 octave, at 109 cents, is quite close to
the interval of 16:15 prescribed by Zarlino's system (~111.73 cents),
while the diesis or comma of 21.82 cents is very close to the syntonic
comma at 81:80 (~21.51 cents). Given the recognition of Zarlino's
syntonic diatonic as the "modern scale" by authors such as Kirnberger
(1771), this resemblance might be an attractive feature.

Above all, unlike a Pythagorean or 53-tET model, 55-tET permits the
approximation of 18th-century intonational ideals with a _regular_
meantone tuning scheme: a major second at about 196.36 cents is equal
to two fifths up less an octave, a major third to two such
whole-tones, and so forth.

In contrast, although similarly regular for a typical 13th-14th
century Gothic setting, a Pythagorean or 53-tET model runs into major
complications if one is seeking major thirds near 5:4 rather than
81:64. While a regular diatonic semitone or limma of 4/9-tone is ideal
for Gothic music, the 55-tET diatonic semitone of 5/9-tone similarly
fits an 18th-century setting.

After reading Paul's personal communication to me, and picturing a
student indeed taking as a reference a split-key instrument tuned in
55-tET or its rather close approximation of 1/6-comma meantone, I find
this hypothesis most engaging. Here the diesis is synonymous with
1/9-tone, as the authors suggest, and at the same time can be
demonstrated on a keyboard in a neatly regular meantone temperament.

One lesson of this discussion, online and offline, may be the
importance of actually known a given period and its tunings as a basis
for interpreting statements such as the theory of "nine commas" in a
whole-tone.

As a medievalist, I was familiar with the Pythagorean approximation of
nine commas in a tone, but not with the 18th-century model of 55-tET
which Paul very helpfully called to my attention.

Also, my interest in 16th-century tunings has well accustomed me to
1/4-comma meantone with its diesis of 128:125 (~41.06 cents), about
1/5-tone -- but here the smaller, commalike, diesis of 55-tET or
1/6-comma meantone might be more relevant to 18th-century theory and
practice.

There is an interesting analogy which one might draw between the
"fifthtone" pair of 29-tET/31-tET, and the "ninthtone" pair of
53-tET/55-tET. While either 29-tET or 31-tET divides the tone into
five equal parts, the former tuning is nicely adapted to a Gothic or
neo-Gothic setting (and may approximate one possible interpretation of
the vocal intonation system advocated by Marchettus of Padua, 1318);
the latter to a Renaissance/Manneristic setting (closely approximating
Vicentino's 31-note meantone cycle of 1555).

The difference is that 29-tET divides the octave into 5 whole-tones
plus two _small_ diatonic semitones of 2/5-tone, while 31-tET divides
it into 5 whole-tones plus two _large_ diatonic semitones of
3/5-tone. The first division fits Gothic or neo-Gothic polyphony with
its active thirds near 127:100 and 13:11, and the second fits
16th-century style with its restful thirds near 5:4 and 6:5.

Similarly, 53-tET divides the octave into 5 whole-tones plus two small
diatonic semitones of 4/9-tone, and 55-tET into 5 whole-tones plus tow
large diatonic semitones of 5/9-tone.

The latter division fits the concord/discord scheme of 18th-century
music where thirds are full and stable consonances rather than partial
and unstable ones; at the same time, the milder tempering of the fifth
and the somewhat more compact diatonic semitone vis-a-vis 31-tET (or
the almost identical 1/4-comma meantone) may reflect a difference
between 16th-century and 18th-century styles.

Since some of the passages translated in this discussion point to
split-key instruments as a standard for correct vocal intonation, a
relevant question might be whether or how often such instruments may
have approximated a shade of meantone near 55-tET or 1/6-comma.

Incidentally, 2/11-comma meantone (fifths ~3.91 cents narrow) would
also give a close approximation of 55-tET, with a diesis curiously
almost exactly equal to the Pythagorean comma of 23.46 cents
(531441:524288).

To conclude, I find Paul's proposal a remarkable synthesis of
theoretical models and documented period practice, with the use of
temperaments of around 1/6-comma or 2/11-comma in split-key
instruments a question inviting more discussion.

Most appreciatively,

Margo Schulter
mschulter@value.net

🔗Afmmjr@aol.com

3/27/2001 9:16:56 AM

In a message dated 3/20/01 11:44:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
MSCHULTER@VALUE.NET writes:

> In this tuning system, which Paul mentions in connection with the
>

While it is true that Telemann has been described as favoring a 55-tET scale
(for a circular 1/6th comma meantone, no doubt, and by Mark Lindley), I have
written to the tuning list previously that this is likely an error.

Paul, did have a chance to see that Telemann wrote highly chromatic harmonies
on his deathbed to illustrate his ideas which I obtained in Berlin. The
error in counting the tones was achieved by recounting both the octave and
the ninth. It seems that scholarship has never found the proper time to
analyze Telemann's musical theories. Since information on JS Bach was
erroneously tied to ET, it should be no surprise that Telemann would be
tagged with an incorrect 55-tET label.

Best, Johnny Reinhard

🔗jpehrson@rcn.com

3/30/2001 8:32:33 PM

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20342.html#20464

> In a message dated 3/20/01 11:44:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> MSCHULTER@V... writes:
>
> > In this tuning system, which Paul mentions in connection with the
> >
>
> While it is true that Telemann has been described as favoring a
55-tET scale
> (for a circular 1/6th comma meantone, no doubt, and by Mark
Lindley), I have
> written to the tuning list previously that this is likely an error.
>
> Paul, did have a chance to see that Telemann wrote highly chromatic
harmonies
> on his deathbed to illustrate his ideas which I obtained in Berlin.
The
> error in counting the tones was achieved by recounting both the
octave and
> the ninth. It seems that scholarship has never found the proper
time to
> analyze Telemann's musical theories. Since information on JS Bach
was
> erroneously tied to ET, it should be no surprise that Telemann
would
be
> tagged with an incorrect 55-tET label.
>
> Best, Johnny Reinhard

Great research, Johnny... I'd forgotten that you had done all this
research on Telemann...

________ ____ _____ ___
Joseph Pehrson

🔗monz <MONZ@JUNO.COM>

3/31/2001 2:03:27 AM

--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20342.html#20581

> --- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:
>
>> While it is true that Telemann has been described as favoring
>> a 55-tET scale (for a circular 1/6th comma meantone, no doubt,
>> and by Mark Lindley), I have written to the tuning list
>> previously that this is likely an error.
>> <etc.>
>
> Great research, Johnny... I'd forgotten that you had done all this
> research on Telemann...

Joe, this was one of the things Johnny, Paul, you and I discussed
when we all met at your house in December. (Admittedly, we
spent much more time on Werckmeister...)

-monz