learning to sing in alt. tunings

Hello all,

I am interested in learning to sing in different tunings and am
wondering what equip. would be useful to help me hear and sing them
accurately. I'm hoping there are ways to do this inexpensively. Is
there share/free ware that I could use with computer to have all the
notes of a particular tuning available for me to check my voice
with? I started using Mathieu's (sp?) harmony book that has
excellent info/methods for learning to sing particular intervals -
and I realize this stuff takes time. Any suggestions on how to
proceed?

Thanks,

~Jim Cole
http://www.spectralvoices.com

Jim,

If you have a Mac, you might find my shareware Just Intonation Ear Trainer
helpful, though it may not be exactly what you're looking for. You can find
it through my home page http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/. I enjoyed the clips on
your website.

Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

--- In tuning@y..., "Jim Cole" <thejimcole@y...> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am interested in learning to sing in different tunings and am
> wondering what equip. would be useful to help me hear and sing them
> accurately. I'm hoping there are ways to do this inexpensively.
Is
> there share/free ware that I could use with computer to have all
the
> notes of a particular tuning available for me to check my voice
> with? I started using Mathieu's (sp?) harmony book that has
> excellent info/methods for learning to sing particular intervals -
> and I realize this stuff takes time. Any suggestions on how to
> proceed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> ~Jim Cole
> http://www.spectralvoices.com

Jim,

I've got an idea! I'll move up there and bring all my toys along.

We can make a trade for you teaching me your awesome singing
techinques.

Calling the moving company now,

Jacky Ligon

Jim Cole wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am interested in learning to sing in different tunings and am
> wondering what equip. would be useful to help me hear and sing them
> accurately. I'm hoping there are ways to do this inexpensively. Is
> there share/free ware that I could use with computer to have all the
> notes of a particular tuning available for me to check my voice
> with? I started using Mathieu's (sp?) harmony book that has
> excellent info/methods for learning to sing particular intervals -
> and I realize this stuff takes time. Any suggestions on how to
> proceed?

Open chord tunings on a guitar: play the harmonics and sing along.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

Thank you Bill, Jacky and David for your replies. Alas, I'm PC-based
Bill - I appreciate the feedback on our clips (BTW, there's a new one
of me singing with the progressive rock group Paranoise - and several
more clips coming soon melding harmonic overtone singing with
electronics).

Jacky wrote:
I've got an idea! I'll move up there and bring all my toys along.

We can make a trade for you teaching me your awesome singing
techinques.

Calling the moving company now,

Excellent Jacky - I'm eager to begin so get those movers to step on
it!

...Galunlati is an amazing work - I'm enjoying it.

>
> Open chord tunings on a guitar: play the harmonics and sing along.
>wrote * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y

Thanks David for the simple solution - I surely have a guitar and now
my bluff is called, so I need to figure out tunings on the strings
and patterns of harmonics to get to whatever scale I want to use.
How would I do this, say for example, on your "Blurry Day" tuning
(which BTW, I've been playing quite often these past few weeks - it's
wonderful)? That guitar is gonna get a workout now.

Thanks again for the responses!

~Jim

http://www.spectralvoices.com

Jim Cole wrote:

> > Open chord tunings on a guitar: play the harmonics and sing along.
> >wrote * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
>
> Thanks David for the simple solution - I surely have a guitar and now
> my bluff is called, so I need to figure out tunings on the strings
> and patterns of harmonics to get to whatever scale I want to use.

Depending on what string/note you're using for a fundamental,
you would want to have at least 1/1, 3/2, 5/4 and 7/4
in this open chord. In the beginning, I used E, later A.
Blurry Day uses A.

> How would I do this, say for example, on your "Blurry Day" tuning
> (which BTW, I've been playing quite often these past few weeks - it's
> wonderful)? That guitar is gonna get a workout now.

Thanks! Blurry Day is 17 limit and I'm not sure I could
tune a string by a harmonic that high. The third is a neutral
third, 21/17 and the M7th is a 32/17. One could always
tune with the aid of an electronic tuner. I use a Korg MT1200,
costs about $300 or less, a fine investment. Now that you
mention it, I should tune this scale up on an acoustic guitar.
It should be a nice piece based on the response I've
gotten to Blurry Day.

The 17th harmonic is very close to 12 tone-evil-temperament
at 104.99 cents - five cents off, but some of the intervals
are close to 24tet and 36tet.

My suggestion was really to use harmonics on a guitar string
as a place to start. Indians use a tamboura because it contains
all the notes in their tuning system. Before I got La Monte's
tamboura cd, I was really struggling, (well, I'm still struggling
but the cd made it easier). Didn't Coalescence have a tamboura
on some of the cuts? I can't find my copy to check.

As for Sky (yer CD for those who don't know), it's a stunning
follow-up to Coalescence. I'd like to catch some of your shows,
but I've been kinda busy and it's a bit of a drive. In the future
I'd really like to make the drive.

nada brahma,
db

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

David,

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:

(Referring to Jim Cole's music):

> As for Sky (yer CD for those who don't know), it's a stunning
> follow-up to Coalescence.

Have you featured either of these on your 'show', and if not, would
you? You don't throw out bouquets meaningnessly, so they must be
good...

Cheers,
Jon

JSZANTO@ADNC.COM wrote:
>
> David,
>
> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:
>
> (Referring to Jim Cole's music):
>
> > As for Sky (yer CD for those who don't know), it's a stunning
> > follow-up to Coalescence.
>
> Have you featured either of these on your 'show', and if not, would
> you? You don't throw out bouquets meaningnessly, so they must be
> good...

I'm pretty sure I've played Coalescence in the past. The
recent archives need to be updated.

Soon!

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure I've played Coalescence in the past. The
> recent archives need to be updated.
>
> Soon!

Slacker!!! (ok, I'll stop before this turns into a chat room...)

Jon

JSZANTO@ADNC.COM wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure I've played Coalescence in the past. The
> > recent archives need to be updated.
> >
> > Soon!
>
> Slacker!!! (ok, I'll stop before this turns into a chat room...)

At 41???

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., JSZANTO@A... wrote:
> David,
>
> --- In tuning@y..., David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:
>
> (Referring to Jim Cole's music):
>
> > As for Sky (yer CD for those who don't know), it's a stunning
> > follow-up to Coalescence.
>
> Have you featured either of these on your 'show', and if not, would
> you? You don't throw out bouquets meaningnessly, so they must be
> good...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

"Good" would be a severe understatement - they are fantastically
beautiful! Literally some of the most beautiful music I've heard.
Both of these CDs represent some of the finest examples of overtone
singing that I'm aware of. If you enjoy David Hykes, you'll be taken
on a spirit journey by Jim's wonderful music.

Spectral Voices are Masters! Every moment - pure bliss.

Jacky Ligon

Hear!!!!! Hear!!!!!!!

ligonj@northstate.net wrote:

> "Good" would be a severe understatement - they are fantastically
> beautiful! Literally some of the most beautiful music I've heard.
> Both of these CDs represent some of the finest examples of overtone
> singing that I'm aware of. If you enjoy David Hykes, you'll be taken
> on a spirit journey by Jim's wonderful music.
>
> Spectral Voices are Masters! Every moment - pure bliss.
>
> Jacky Ligon
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Well, ahem, gentlemen:

--- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> Hear!!!!! Hear!!!!!!!
>
> ligonj@n... wrote:
>
> > "Good" would be a severe understatement - they are fantastically
> > beautiful!

...and so on. Beardsley, Ligon, Grady. Good enough for me -- the
check and order are in an stamped envelope now, awaiting the
postperson's arrival tomorrow.

Thanks for the head's up on some new listening...

Cheers,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:

..................

Hi Jacky and all, the series of postings on this topic, coming from
musician-scholars, made very interesting and instructive reading.

In Indian music:-
Traditionally, a beginner starts his lessons with the raga Bhairava
[Notes: C Db E F G Ab B]. He tries to exactly follow every
note/phrase that his guru sings. The initial phrases take the
student mainly in the lower octave, but also through middle, to
higher octave. The student has been taught to "play" the Tanpura
(soft and steady), which has been tuned for him by his guru. This
exercise is called mandra sadhana (singing in the lower octave).
And, of course, it is "alt." tuning ALWAYS. There is no other
accompaniement-- neither Harmonium nor Sarangi, nor anything else.
Each note is stayed on and prolonged. The guru insists on the
student producing clean, pure, steady and sustained notes.

Haresh.

--- In tuning@y..., JSZANTO@A... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20138.html#20176

> Well, ahem, gentlemen:
>
> --- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> > Hear!!!!! Hear!!!!!!!
> >
> > ligonj@n... wrote:
> >
> > > "Good" would be a severe understatement - they are fantastically
> > > beautiful!
>
> ...and so on. Beardsley, Ligon, Grady. Good enough for me -- the
> check and order are in an stamped envelope now, awaiting the
> postperson's arrival tomorrow.
>
> Thanks for the head's up on some new listening...

I'll add my recommendation to theirs. Cole's CDs are
fantastic.

Jon, since you like this kind of music (and you live in the
same neighborhood as me!), I should definitely turn you on to
an album Jonathan Glasier made a couple of years ago, if you
don't already know about it.

(Dave, Jacky, and Kraig: you'd love this too.)

It's called _Open Hear_, and was done with Shannon Michael Terry.
Side 1 is _a cappella_ duet harmonic singing (which means that
it's usually 4-part harmony!), and Side 2 is the same material
redone with electronic treatments by Brian McLaren.

Jonathan and I will be at the Sonic Arts Gallery on Saturday
afternoon if you (or any of you other San Diego xennies) want
to drop by. We have copies of the CD there.

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

Hello Haresh,

Your post on singing raga brought back memories of Pandit Pran Nath. Are you
familiar with him, or with the Kirana style of Raga he was renown for? Pran
Nath was an important influence on microtonal vocalists Terry Riley and
LaMonte Young.

I had the opportunity to work with him...or more like for him (driving him to
the airport, etc.) while working in 1987 with LaMonte. And so I had a few
lessons in singing.

We did the same (don't worry I won't say "scale") raga you described.
However, I was most interested in the gamakas. (I took notes and could put
them up at a later post.) Could you speak on the gamakas as microtonal
mechanisms?

Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., "Haresh BAKSHI" <hareshbakshi@h...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
>
> ..................
>
> Hi Jacky and all, the series of postings on this topic, coming
from
> musician-scholars, made very interesting and instructive reading.
>
> In Indian music:-
> Traditionally, a beginner starts his lessons with the raga Bhairava
> [Notes: C Db E F G Ab B].

I have played this raga in the past on keyboard and midi wind
instrument, but was always concerned if I was playing in
the "correct" intervals. This is a lovely mode too.

I'm wondering, could one use simple integer ratios for good
approximations to the true intervals used in the ragas? I noticed
that when you listened to my harmonic drones you were easily able to
identify the harmonic pitches relative to the Indian solfeggio
system. Could we assume that the lower members of the harmonic
series, would give us good intervals for raga practice?

He tries to exactly follow every
> note/phrase that his guru sings. The initial phrases take the
> student mainly in the lower octave, but also through middle, to
> higher octave.

So the initial training is to gain mastery over the lower range of
the voice?

The student has been taught to "play" the Tanpura
> (soft and steady), which has been tuned for him by his guru. This
> exercise is called mandra sadhana (singing in the lower octave).
> And, of course, it is "alt." tuning ALWAYS. There is no other
> accompaniment-- neither Harmonium nor Sarangi, nor anything else.
> Each note is stayed on and prolonged. The guru insists on the
> student producing clean, pure, steady and sustained notes.

I was wondering about this. So during the initial training,
ornamentation techniques like meend and gamak, are not allowed? This
really makes sense too.

Haresh,

I wish that someday you could put together a CD-Rom, or even just and
audio CD, of raga vocal lessons. I would instantly buy one, as I've
had a hard time finding a raga teacher around my area. You may be
surprised how valuable this would be to many who seek to learn more
about the music of India, and become raga practitioners.

I create CDs for practicing singing away from home - mostly driving
to and from my job. So this kind of thing would be wonderful to
have. Do you know if anyone has ever thought to do this?

Thanks,

Jacky Ligon

* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y w r o t e :
> As for Sky (yer CD for those who don't know), it's a stunning
> follow-up to Coalescence.

First off, thank you David for the praise of our music and for
starting the "chain reaction" of good words for it :)

Thanks Jacky, Kraig and Monz for chiming in too!!! As I'm sure you
all know, we depend so much on word of mouth and I personally am very
charged by, and grateful for any amount of positive feedback - it's a
good reverberation that inspires the good Vibe back around.

David, Jacky and Kraig's music that I've heard is awesome and I have
the utmost respect for their musicality so I feel very honored that
SV's music is favorably recognized by them.

Haven't heard your stuff yet Monz but am looking forward to it and
have enjoyed your posts (when I could understand them!) over time in
my sporadic lurkings on this forum. BTW, I would like to buy a copy
of that Jonathan Glasier "Open Hear" CD (or trade) that you
mentioned. Can I do this directly through you or Jonathan?

(David again wrote:)
> Depending on what string/note you're using for a fundamental,
> you would want to have at least 1/1, 3/2, 5/4 and 7/4
> in this open chord. In the beginning, I used E, later A.
> Blurry Day uses A.

Yes, I'm looking forward to these explorations using the guitar for
some of the "basic" lower limit alt. tunings - I imagine it'll be fun
and worthwhile.

(DB:)
> Blurry Day is 17 limit and I'm not sure I could
> tune a string by a harmonic that high. The third is a neutral
> third, 21/17 and the M7th is a 32/17. One could always
> tune with the aid of an electronic tuner. I use a Korg MT1200,
> costs about $300 or less, a fine investment. Now that you
> mention it, I should tune this scale up on an acoustic guitar.
> It should be a nice piece based on the response I've
> gotten to Blurry Day.

Yes, when I have the cash again I'd like to finally buy this piece of
equip. - several folks have suggested it to me over the years.

(DB:)
> My suggestion was really to use harmonics on a guitar string
> as a place to start.

Yes, it's a great suggestion - I tend to get ahead of myself by
looking for the all-encompassing solution but now it's time to be
humble and start checking my voice with the basic tunings and play -
the more "exotic" and abstruse tunings can come in time if/when I'm
ready. I don't even know concretely which tunings I'd like to start
with! Ah, the guitar is such an old friend. :)

Indians use a tamboura because it contains
> all the notes in their tuning system. Before I got La Monte's
> tamboura cd, I was really struggling, (well, I'm still struggling
> but the cd made it easier). Didn't Coalescence have a tamboura
> on some of the cuts? I can't find my copy to check.

Yes, "Coalescence" has two cuts with a "backpacker's" tamboura and
the upcoming "Innertones" will have a ~20 min piece with it. I
actually have an easier time plucking higher harmonics with guitar -
maybe something to do with the tension of strings. I've been
experimenting with tunings on tamboura and getting all kinds of
swirly harmonic fields/drones that I then improvise to/with - this is
how I lull my young daughters to sleep - these are some of the most
precious times of inspiration, creativity, etc. too.

Thank you once again David for your suggestions and to y'all for the
kindness.

This list is an inspiring place and I wish I had more
time/focus/knowledge to contribute more to the many excellent
threads.

~Jim Cole
http://www.spectralvoices.com

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

..........

Hello Johnny, I am so glad you had the good fortune to work with
Pandit Pran Nath, and even had a few lessons in singing; you may have
met his illustrious guru Ustad Wahid Khan, the doyen of Kirana
gharana. The only Kirana singer I have heard personally was Pandit
Yashwantrao Purohit. He was a master exponent of vilambita khayal
gayaki, but died a tragic death at a very early age.

Please post your notes on gamaka-s, too.

Let me tell you how I have treated and categorized gamaka-s. The
gamaka-s have been dealt with by Sharngadeva in the third chapter
of 'sangitaratnakara', where he gives their characteristics and
categories, in general terms and fifteen specific varieties.
But 'sangita-parijata' gives twenty varieties. I gather that in
Karnatic music we have ten types. Unfortunately, their typology is
not clearly explained anywhere. We have, by inference, about six to
eight identifiable types.

Now, the definitions of a gamaka. In terms of aesthetics, a gamaka
should delight the mind. It is the shaking of a tone (to the delight
of the listener's mind.) In terms of musical theory, a gamaka is a
melodic embellishment, vocal or instrumental. It is a vibratory
tonal effect. It is a contextual use of a note -- or notes. In what
context? In any of the following contexts:-

(i) Vibrations of a note initiated on another note, previous or
subsequent.
(ii) Vibrations of a note arsing out of the shruti-s of the same
note.
(iii) the duration of vibrations
(iv) the depth of vibrations
(v) the range of vibrations
(vi) the targeted effect.

Some examples of gamaka-s.

[1] ahata: Vibrating, but accented on the higher note.
[2] gumphita: producing humming sound. (Are you reminded of
bhramari pranayama?)
[3] tribhinna: Using vibrating notes in three successive octaves.
[4] mudrita: vibrating, with a closed mouth.
[5] tiripa: vibrating a single note 4 times (or 8 times) to a beat
of short duration, to produce the effect of playing the 'damaru'
(Shiva's little drum).
[6] tribhinna: Using vibrating notes in three successive octaves.
etc. etc.

Conclusion. It is obvious that all gamaka-s are microtonal
applications. Their aesthetical implications apart, they are
measurable and reproducible as microtones or microtonal ranges.

How shall we translate "gamaka'? A tremolo? That may be the
nearest, nowhere near. Let us say that it is a tremolo, much deeper,
much stronger, much wider in scope. Or, there is another more
appropriate term?

Regards,
Haresh.
www.SoundOfIndia.com

Now i was never blessed as some were with a Kirana Gharana training
but i have intuitively defined gamaka as "illustration by comma"
using the 66 note scales available using the three identities of each note
as
tone or solid, at rest, Brahma
gamaka 1 in upward direction an 81/80 usually tivra notes,Shiva
gamaka 2 stepdown " " , Krishna

my two pesos

> How shall we translate "gamaka'? A tremolo? That may be the
> nearest, nowhere near. Let us say that it is a tremolo, much deeper,
> much stronger, much wider in scope. Or, there is another more
> appropriate term?
>
> Regards,
> Haresh.
> www.SoundOfIndia.com
>
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold
for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Haresh BAKSHI wrote:

> How shall we translate "gamaka'? A tremolo? That may be the
> nearest, nowhere near. Let us say that it is a tremolo, much deeper,
> much stronger, much wider in scope. Or, there is another more
> appropriate term?

Vibrato.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

Dear Haresh,

Thank you for your descriptions of Gamakas, their first writing, and asking
about an English translation for the term.

Vibrato and Tremolo are very specific as an oscillation. But the Gamaka is
more of a particular shape, like Mordents and Turns. The term "ornament"
does not necessarily mean it is unnecessary, but the Gamakas seem more
seminal, more important to the meaning of the music.

Perhaps we should simply continue to call Gamakas by the name Gamakas so as
to signify the unique microtonal shape and mechanism they consist of.
Egyptian Maqam has certain tones that require vibrato, but no Gamakas in the
sense we have been discussing, a characteristic melodic noodle.

I'll be looking for the notes I took. No luck in the first sweep. ;)

Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Haresh BAKSHI" <hareshbakshi@h...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> >
> > ..................
> >
> > Hi Jacky and all, the series of postings on this topic, coming
> from
> > musician-scholars, made very interesting and instructive reading.
> >
> > In Indian music:-
> > Traditionally, a beginner starts his lessons with the raga
Bhairava
> > [Notes: C Db E F G Ab B].
>
> I have played this raga in the past on keyboard and midi wind
> instrument, but was always concerned if I was playing in
> the "correct" intervals. This is a lovely mode too.

My input: MIDI will not give you correct intervals, obviously.
Bhairava is the name of a thaat , and a raga also. The thaat and the
raga have the same ascending and descending scales. Now, there is a
complication. If you play the thaat Bhairava, it sounds pleasing,
but would not have the aesthetics of the raga Bhairava. The thaat is
just ascending and descending scales, with no grammar, no syntax, no
aesthetic value, and you cannot perform it on the stage, though you
enjoy playing and combining the notes of the thaat at will,
unregulated. Let us call such playing "mood music"/"relaxing music"
(which is good, too, and, even here, one can achieve great meditative
depths too). If you want to play the raga Bhairava, however, you
need to learn its grammar and syntax.

And there is one more problem: there is another raga, called
Kalingada, which has the same ascending and descending scales as
Bhairava raga. It is differentiable from the raga Bhairava only by
its vastly different syntax and grammar. Hence, to sum up, just play
the scale for relaxation and sheer joy-- no rules to follow, using
the intrinsic beauty of the notes of the scale.

>
> I'm wondering, could one use simple integer ratios for good
> approximations to the true intervals used in the ragas? I noticed
> that when you listened to my harmonic drones you were easily able
to
> identify the harmonic pitches relative to the Indian solfeggio
> system. Could we assume that the lower members of the harmonic
> series, would give us good intervals for raga practice?

My input: The true intervals used in a raga ARE simple integer
ratios. For example, the ratios for the notes of Bhairava would be
[I believe -- please correct me if I am wrong] :-
C Db E F G Ab B C'
1/1 16/15 5/4 4/3 3/2 8/5 15/8 2/1
(Why am I stating the obvious? --I am sure you knew this already --
have I missed something here?)

Also, all -- not only lower -- members of the series give just
intervals for practice as well as performance.

>
> He tries to exactly follow every
> > note/phrase that his guru sings. The initial phrases take the
> > student mainly in the lower octave, but also through middle, to
> > higher octave.
>
> So the initial training is to gain mastery over the lower range of
> the voice?

My input: We believe that (i) unless we stabilize and strengthen the
voice in the lower octave, our voice will sound bleak and weak in the
higher octave; (ii) working in the lower range makes the
voice "thick", rich and mellow.

>
> The student has been taught to "play" the Tanpura
> > (soft and steady), which has been tuned for him by his guru.
This
> > exercise is called mandra sadhana (singing in the lower octave).
> > And, of course, it is "alt." tuning ALWAYS. There is no other
> > accompaniment-- neither Harmonium nor Sarangi, nor anything
else.
> > Each note is stayed on and prolonged. The guru insists on the
> > student producing clean, pure, steady and sustained notes.
>
> I was wondering about this. So during the initial training,
> ornamentation techniques like meend and gamak, are not allowed?
This
> really makes sense too.

My input: There are several components to the training: mandra
sadhana (Singing in the lower octave); practising "palta" (patterns)
using only any of the ten thaat-s [there is one lesson, in the thaat
Bilawal, at www.soundofindia,com]; practising palta in the raga to be
practised; learning improvisation in that raga -- without and with
taal, in slow, moderate and fast tempi. Ornamentation techniques are
taught -- and applied -- only at the improvisation stage.

>
> Haresh,
>
> I wish that someday you could put together a CD-Rom, or even just
and
> audio CD, of raga vocal lessons. I would instantly buy one, as I've
> had a hard time finding a raga teacher around my area. You may be
> surprised how valuable this would be to many who seek to learn more
> about the music of India, and become raga practitioners.

My input: At cost of sounding too audacious and ambitious, yes, I am
in the process of creating "100 raga-s for the 21st Century" book-
cum-CDs.

>
> I create CDs for practicing singing away from home - mostly driving
> to and from my job. So this kind of thing would be wonderful to
> have. Do you know if anyone has ever thought to do this?

My input: Most of my students travel many miles and spend a total of
more than seventy minutes to attend their music class, every week. I
make audio tapes to their requirement, which they use for practice
while driving. I do not create CD for them, because, hopefully, they
would outgrow the current level of practice, and need to re-record
the practice for the next higher level. [Of course, if they so
desire, they can record a new CD, too].

Thanks and regards,
Haresh.

on 3/13/01 11:36 PM, tuning@yahoogroups.com at tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: learning to sing in alt. tunings

> My suggestion was really to use harmonics on a guitar string
> as a place to start. Indians use a tamboura because it contains
> all the notes in their tuning system. Before I got La Monte's
> tamboura cd, I was really struggling, (well, I'm still struggling
> but the cd made it easier). Didn't Coalescence have a tamboura
> on some of the cuts? I can't find my copy to check.

a tamboura CD? Is this still available? and where can I buy a copy?

Seth

--
Seth Austen

http://www.sethausten.com
emails: seth@sethausten.com
klezmusic@earthlink.net

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause
and reflect."
-Mark Twain

on 3/14/01 5:22 AM, tuning@yahoogroups.com at tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Subject: Re: learning to sing in alt. tunings

> I'll add my recommendation to theirs. Cole's CDs are
> fantastic.

Hi all,

One more high recommendation from me. I have the Sky tape recorded in the
water tower, it has been a favorite for years.

Seth

--
Seth Austen

http://www.sethausten.com
emails: seth@sethausten.com
klezmusic@earthlink.net

--- In tuning@y..., Seth Austen <klezmusic@e...> wrote:
> on 3/13/01 11:36 PM, tuning@y... at tuning@y... wrote:
>
.................
>
> a tamboura CD? Is this still available? and where can I buy a copy?
>

Hello, I have just made one -- duration: 70 minutes. It is in the
note of C. It is actually two tanpura-s' digital loops. To listen to
the sample, please visit
http://www.SoundOfIndia.com
and click on 'Performances'.

If you like the sound, I will be happy to send you that 70-minute CD
without any obligation.

Regards,
Haresh.
www.SoundOfIndia.com

Seth Austen wrote:
>
> on 3/14/01 5:22 AM, tuning@yahoogroups.com at tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > Subject: Re: learning to sing in alt. tunings
>
> > I'll add my recommendation to theirs. Cole's CDs are
> > fantastic.
>
> Hi all,
>
> One more high recommendation from me. I have the Sky tape recorded in the
> water tower, it has been a favorite for years.
>

I didn't realise it was out on tape. It's now out on cd.

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

I was given the spectral voices from the Water Tower tape many years ago.
Jim, did you know Stephen Camp?
Or are you in communication with Jonathan Goldman?

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: learning to sing in alt. tunings

>
>
> Seth Austen wrote:
> >
> > on 3/14/01 5:22 AM, tuning@yahoogroups.com at tuning@yahoogroups.com
wrote:
> >
> > > Subject: Re: learning to sing in alt. tunings
> >
> > > I'll add my recommendation to theirs. Cole's CDs are
> > > fantastic.
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > One more high recommendation from me. I have the Sky tape recorded in
the
> > water tower, it has been a favorite for years.
> >
>
> I didn't realise it was out on tape. It's now out on cd.
>
>
> --
> * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
> * 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
> * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
> * http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold
for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- In tuning@y..., "shreeswifty" <ppagano@b...> wrote:
> I was given the spectral voices from the Water Tower tape many
years ago.
> Jim, did you know Stephen Camp?
> Or are you in communication with Jonathan Goldman?

Yes, I did know Stephen briefly. No, I've not been in communication
with Jonathan although I've read a book of his and heard some of his
music.

> > * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y:
> > I didn't realise it was out on tape. It's now out on cd.

Pat, you have the unmastered extended version that came out soon
after it was recorded - Did Stephen give you that copy? (curious to
know who turned you onto us!)

David, the "Sky" CD you have was just released in 2000 after the
material was severely edited and mastered professionally. I also
have cassette artwork leftover from the '94 release so that if
anybody orders the "Sky" tape I will dub the new version and package
with the "old" artwork.

Seth Austen wrote:
>One more high recommendation from me. I have the Sky tape recorded
>in the water tower, it has been a favorite for years.

Thank you again Seth for the positive feedback!

Anybody here on the list know of an empty water tower close to CT so
we can continue our work/play in real acoustic space? I've been
looking for years now and have had few leads but then no permission
granted...yet...

~Jim
http://www.spectralvoices.com

--- In tuning@y..., "Jim Cole" <thejimcole@y...> wrote:
>
> Anybody here on the list know of an empty water tower close to CT
so
> we can continue our work/play in real acoustic space? I've been
> looking for years now and have had few leads but then no permission
> granted...yet...
>
> ~Jim
> http://www.spectralvoices.com

Jim,

If you can't find one, you may like the acoustical properties of a
Racquet Ball room.

I've had fun improvising in one before, with flutes, singing and an
old EH Mini-Synth (now deceased). There had to have been at least a
1.5 minute time delay in there!

Thanks,

Jacky

Hi Jim
No, Barbara Camp gave me the tapes and Stephens other research after he
dropped his body.
I will have a website of his materials up soon.
She gave it to me before i was able to tone properly.
I read Jonathans Book and through it made aquaintance and a wonderful
friendship with Barbara Hero
I have since learned both Mongolian Hoomi and Tibetan chanting.
There will be a piece on the next release that has me toning on it.
I did a piece last year called "the Choir of Past Lives" which features
toning as well.
cheers

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Cole <thejimcole@yahoo.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:45 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: learning to sing in alt. tunings

> --- In tuning@y..., "shreeswifty" <ppagano@b...> wrote:
> > I was given the spectral voices from the Water Tower tape many
> years ago.
> > Jim, did you know Stephen Camp?
> > Or are you in communication with Jonathan Goldman?
>
> Yes, I did know Stephen briefly. No, I've not been in communication
> with Jonathan although I've read a book of his and heard some of his
> music.
>
> > > * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y:
> > > I didn't realise it was out on tape. It's now out on cd.
>
> Pat, you have the unmastered extended version that came out soon
> after it was recorded - Did Stephen give you that copy? (curious to
> know who turned you onto us!)
>
> David, the "Sky" CD you have was just released in 2000 after the
> material was severely edited and mastered professionally. I also
> have cassette artwork leftover from the '94 release so that if
> anybody orders the "Sky" tape I will dub the new version and package
> with the "old" artwork.
>
> Seth Austen wrote:
> >One more high recommendation from me. I have the Sky tape recorded
> >in the water tower, it has been a favorite for years.
>
> Thank you again Seth for the positive feedback!
>
> Anybody here on the list know of an empty water tower close to CT so
> we can continue our work/play in real acoustic space? I've been
> looking for years now and have had few leads but then no permission
> granted...yet...
>
> ~Jim
> http://www.spectralvoices.com
>
>
>
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold
for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- In tuning@y..., "shreeswifty" <ppagano@b...> wrote:
> Hi Jim
> No, Barbara Camp gave me the tapes and Stephens other research
after he
> dropped his body.
> I will have a website of his materials up soon.
> She gave it to me before i was able to tone properly.
> I read Jonathans Book and through it made aquaintance and a
wonderful
> friendship with Barbara Hero
> I have since learned both Mongolian Hoomi and Tibetan chanting.
> There will be a piece on the next release that has me toning on it.
> I did a piece last year called "the Choir of Past Lives" which
features
> toning as well.
> cheers
>

Pat,

Alright!!

Hey - you will let your old buddy Jacky know when this is available?

Thanks,

Jacky

a tanpura freak here in japan is saying

what!?

> without any obligation.

??

i'd bet that everybody wants that cd
will check out what this thread was all about
but
does the above mean you are ultra-that-much kind?
if yes
would love to get advantage of that cd
by combining with the materials
i have here to do the microtonal-dj-thang

frankly
am poor enough ask things like this

thanx

BUYO-BUYO-IGOR--------------------
http://i.am/sarigama
http://mybrowser.ismad.com
http://thismusic.ispopular.com/

> > a tamboura CD? Is this still available? and where can I buy a copy?
> >
>
> Hello, I have just made one -- duration: 70 minutes. It is in the
> note of C. It is actually two tanpura-s' digital loops. To listen to
> the sample, please visit
> http://www.SoundOfIndia.com
> and click on 'Performances'.
>
> If you like the sound, I will be happy to send you that 70-minute CD
> without any obligation.

on 3/16/01 4:15 AM, tuning@yahoogroups.com at tuning@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> From: "Haresh BAKSHI" <hareshbakshi@hotmail.com>
> Subject: The Tanpura CD

>> a tamboura CD? Is this still available? and where can I buy a copy?
>>
>
> Hello, I have just made one -- duration: 70 minutes. It is in the
> note of C. It is actually two tanpura-s' digital loops. To listen to
> the sample, please visit
> http://www.SoundOfIndia.com
> and click on 'Performances'.

> If you like the sound, I will be happy to send you that 70-minute CD
> without any obligation.

Haresh,

Thank you for your kind offer. I shall go listen to this sample on your site
on Sunday. I'd listen sooner, but I'm driving to Maine tomorrow morning to
play at a New England contra dance festival. 3 hours each way, to play for
an hour. Ah, the musicians life...

Seth

------
Seth Austen
http://www.sethausten.com
email; seth@sethausten.com

--
"To be nobody-but-myself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and
day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which
any human being can fight, and never stop fighting."
-- e.e. cummings

Hi Haresh

I have been listening to your "Mitvaa Maane Naa" all day and really
enjoying it. Two questions for you - I clicked buy on the radio 365
assuming that would allow me pay and then download the file but
nothing happened. Do you know anything about that? Second question -
do you know anyone in the Sarasota- Tampa (Floriduh) area that you
can recommend for Indian singing lessons. I liked your lesson one
very much, and it made me eager for more:-)

Mary

--- In tuning@y..., nanom3@h... wrote:

> Hi Haresh
>
> I have been listening to your "Mitvaa Maane Naa" all day and really
> enjoying it. Two questions for you - I clicked buy on the radio
365
> assuming that would allow me pay and then download the file but
> nothing happened. Do you know anything about that?

Hi Mary, thanks for the encouragement. The present recording
of "mitvaa..." was done live and informally. I will soon put up a
studio recording of that, and several other raga-s, in a fromat which
will allow you to pay and download the file(s), one file at a time,
of course.

Second question -
> do you know anyone in the Sarasota- Tampa (Floriduh) area that you
> can recommend for Indian singing lessons. I liked your lesson one
> very much, and it made me eager for more:-)

I had a student who later moved to Tampa (or Aloha?). I will see if
she knows any instructor in Indian singing lessons. Another option
[if can wait for a few days]: My second lesson will go online next
week, and it will be downloadable -- free. Some more downloadable
and free lessons will continue to be available.

I am happy to know that you enjoy Indian music.

Regards,
Haresh.

: My second lesson will go online next
week, and it will be downloadable -- free. Some more downloadable
and free lessons will continue to be available

Thanks Haresh. I really look forward to that.

Mary

Jim Cole wrote:

> Anybody here on the list know of an empty water tower close to CT so
> we can continue our work/play in real acoustic space? I've been
> looking for years now and have had few leads but then no permission
> granted...yet...

You could always buy a chunk of land and build yer own.
Hold weekly concerts...put a large billboard on the freeway
to pull in tourists. ;)
Measure the old one - if you can. You don't have to heat the
thing (cuts down on costs).

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

--- In tuning@y..., "Haresh BAKSHI" <hareshbakshi@h...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> My input: MIDI will not give you correct intervals, obviously.
> Bhairava is the name of a thaat , and a raga also. The thaat and
the
> raga have the same ascending and descending scales. Now, there is
a
> complication. If you play the thaat Bhairava, it sounds pleasing,
> but would not have the aesthetics of the raga Bhairava. The thaat
is
> just ascending and descending scales, with no grammar, no syntax,
no
> aesthetic value, and you cannot perform it on the stage, though you
> enjoy playing and combining the notes of the thaat at will,
> unregulated. Let us call such playing "mood music"/"relaxing
music"
> (which is good, too, and, even here, one can achieve great
meditative
> depths too). If you want to play the raga Bhairava, however, you
> need to learn its grammar and syntax.
>
> And there is one more problem: there is another raga, called
> Kalingada, which has the same ascending and descending scales as
> Bhairava raga. It is differentiable from the raga Bhairava only by
> its vastly different syntax and grammar. Hence, to sum up, just
play
> the scale for relaxation and sheer joy-- no rules to follow, using
> the intrinsic beauty of the notes of the scale.

Haresh,

Thanks for this reply. I would have been using a 5 limit JI scale for
this. And I completely harmonize with what you are saying about the
cultural context - a very important point. I am sensitive to this
fact, and know that I'm only getting a sense of the pitch shape of
the raaga. The cultural context of Indian music, is one of the
reasons I've never bought any Indian instruments. I revere the music
so much, and I know that for me to attempt to make Indian sounding
music outside of its cultural context, would likely be a disservice
to the spirit of this music. I try to integrate what I can, without
using the sounds or melodic forms exactly.

To slightly contradict myself above - I have used tabla on a number
of pieces.

I do however wish to study raaga singing someday, since I feel it
would be beneficial to my compositional activities. I also believe
that I could allow tanpura, and remain respectable.

>
>
> >
> > I'm wondering, could one use simple integer ratios for good
> > approximations to the true intervals used in the ragas? I
noticed
> > that when you listened to my harmonic drones you were easily able
> to
> > identify the harmonic pitches relative to the Indian solfeggio
> > system. Could we assume that the lower members of the harmonic
> > series, would give us good intervals for raga practice?
>
> My input: The true intervals used in a raga ARE simple integer
> ratios. For example, the ratios for the notes of Bhairava would
be
> [I believe -- please correct me if I am wrong] :-
> C Db E F G Ab B C'
> 1/1 16/15 5/4 4/3 3/2 8/5 15/8 2/1
> (Why am I stating the obvious? --I am sure you knew this already --
> have I missed something here?)

This mode is familiar, and very like varieties in enjoy improvising
with.

> > I create CDs for practicing singing away from home - mostly
driving
> > to and from my job. So this kind of thing would be wonderful to
> > have. Do you know if anyone has ever thought to do this?
>
> My input: Most of my students travel many miles and spend a total
of
> more than seventy minutes to attend their music class, every week.
I
> make audio tapes to their requirement, which they use for practice
> while driving. I do not create CD for them, because, hopefully,
they
> would outgrow the current level of practice, and need to re-record
> the practice for the next higher level. [Of course, if they so
> desire, they can record a new CD, too].
>

Very interesting to know that others use such training techniques.
I've found that the windshield of my car is a wonderful reflective
surface to have for practicing overtone singing.

Thanks Haresh,

Jacky Ligon

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Haresh BAKSHI" <hareshbakshi@h...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:

.............
>
> Thanks for this reply. I would have been using a 5 limit JI scale
for
> this. And I completely harmonize with what you are saying about the
> cultural context - a very important point. I am sensitive to this
> fact, and know that I'm only getting a sense of the pitch shape of
> the raaga. The cultural context of Indian music, is one of the
> reasons I've never bought any Indian instruments. I revere the
music
> so much, and I know that for me to attempt to make Indian sounding
> music outside of its cultural context, would likely be a disservice
> to the spirit of this music. I try to integrate what I can, without
> using the sounds or melodic forms exactly.
>

Your reference to the cultural context shows your sensitivity to, and
respect for music from any culture. However, we Indian musicians
use Harmonium for accompaniment, play Indian music on instruments
incapable of producing glissando, perform raga-s without knowing them
thoroughly .... these are not indicative of any cultural respect.

My point is this: Why not enjoy the inner aesthetics of a note? Why
not relish the intrinsic beauty of a scale? Why not get immersed in
the new-found sound of the tanpura or the tabla, for the sake of
sheer joy of listening? Why not re-invent the basic capacity of any
music to transcend all music? And I mean this in real, physical
sense -- not in any rhetoric or vaguely spiritual sense.

In addition, if we learn about the raga-s, and play them, it is a
kind of bonus. But we have really nothing stopping us from rejoicing
in pure and absolute delight derived from the sounds of the notes,
the scales, and the timbres of various instruments. In doing so, we
are not lowering any standards; we are being true and honest.

Regards,
Haresh.

--- In tuning@y..., "Haresh BAKSHI" <hareshbakshi@h...> wrote:
> Your reference to the cultural context shows your sensitivity to,
and
> respect for music from any culture. However, we Indian musicians
> use Harmonium for accompaniment, play Indian music on instruments
> incapable of producing glissando, perform raga-s without knowing
them
> thoroughly .... these are not indicative of any cultural respect.

Haresh,

Thanks for the encouragement.

>
> My point is this: Why not enjoy the inner aesthetics of a note?

I love this!

Why
> not relish the intrinsic beauty of a scale?

I love this even more!

Why not get immersed in
> the new-found sound of the tanpura or the tabla, for the sake of
> sheer joy of listening?

I do on recordings, and perhaps I'll get a tanpura one day - I do
adore the sound.

Why not re-invent the basic capacity of any
> music to transcend all music?

You mean to trancend all "cultural context" - a kind of "Pan-
Cultural" approach? I do enjoy such a synthesis.

And I mean this in real, physical
> sense -- not in any rhetoric or vaguely spiritual sense.

I'm with you my Brother.

>
> In addition, if we learn about the raga-s, and play them, it is a
> kind of bonus. But we have really nothing stopping us from
rejoicing
> in pure and absolute delight derived from the sounds of the notes,
> the scales, and the timbres of various instruments. In doing so, we
> are not lowering any standards; we are being true and honest.

I couldn't agree more.

Thanks again,

Jacky Ligon

Jacky wrote:
> I've found that the windshield of my car is a wonderful reflective
> surface to have for practicing overtone singing.

...Ahh yes, the windshield is a wonderful reflector - Besides lulling
my daughters to sleep in the eves and gigs, singing during the
commute to work is the most focused time I have for harmonic singing
practice these days.

Haresh wrote:
>Why not enjoy the inner aesthetics of a note? Why
>not relish the intrinsic beauty of a scale? Why not get immersed in
>the new-found sound of the tanpura or the tabla, for the sake of
>sheer joy of listening? Why not re-invent the basic capacity of any
>music to transcend all music? And I mean this in real, physical
>sense -- not in any rhetoric or vaguely spiritual sense.

>In addition, if we learn about the raga-s, and play them, it is a
>kind of bonus. But we have really nothing stopping us from
>rejoicing
>in pure and absolute delight derived from the sounds of the notes,
>the scales, and the timbres of various instruments. In doing so, we
>are not lowering any standards; we are being true and honest.

...Wow! Well said Haresh - these ideas are very liberating and an
encouragement towards basic enjoyment and inspiration. Like Jacky,
I've hesitated using my tamboura (for public performance particularly
in my case) sometimes because I didn't want to invite comparison or
dishonor a huge tradition that I know next to nothing about - didn't
want to seem to be posturing in front of anybody. Anyway, playing
and listening to tamboura, playing with different "unorthodox"
tunings with it, and singing whatever comes in the moment has been
and continues to be a vast source of joy, creativity, peace and
inspiration to me...and someday I hope to study raga and reap that
bonus as well!

(Back to the windshield...Oooooaaaaaaahhh) :)

~Jim
http://www.spectralvoices.com

--- In tuning@y..., Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_20138.html#20175

> Hear!!!!! Hear!!!!!!!
>
> ligonj@n... wrote:
>
> > "Good" would be a severe understatement - they are fantastically
> > beautiful! Literally some of the most beautiful music I've heard.
> > Both of these CDs represent some of the finest examples of
overtone
> > singing that I'm aware of. If you enjoy David Hykes, you'll be
taken
> > on a spirit journey by Jim's wonderful music.
> >
> > Spectral Voices are Masters! Every moment - pure bliss.
> >
> > Jacky Ligon
> >
> >
>
> -- Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
> http://www.anaphoria.com

I'm enjoying this, too!

_________ _____ _____ ____
Joseph Pehrson