Re: Let's make a FAQ

[Joe Pehrson wrote:]
>>He had proposed the acronym EDO, for "equal divisions of the octave"
>>as opposed to TET for the "tempered" cases where "just" intervals
>>were being approximated...

>>Wasn't that pretty much universally accepted, or at least at that
>>time, or am I mistaken.... (??)

[Bill Alves:]
>Not by me. This is exactly the sort of illusion of consensus that Kraig
>was referring to.

OK, but what better way to make it clear that there's not a complete
consensus than to undertake this FAQ? I definitely agree with the idea
of making it clear that a term does not have universally accepted
meaning when this is the case.

[Johnny Reinhard:]
>I think there is a lot of bias showing in the making of this FAQ and it
>makes me uncomfortable. Surely there is no need to slander
>quartertones per Ivor Darreg, et al. Haven't we progressed passed
>that. Isn't it irrefutable that there are wonderful compositions
>utilizing quartertones?

>It could get very personal if we start attacking here and there...but
>the differences may be very real. It reminds me that Schoenberg held
>that his music was pantonal, despite the reality that the media would
>insist it is atonal.

Fair enough - you're referring to the suggested topic WHY QUARTERTONES
ARE NOT SO INTERESTING, which perhaps was originally made partly in
jest. I agree that it should not be included. Something slightly
different, say "Why quartertones don't help achieve Just Intonation",
might be more acceptable, and informative.

[Johnny:]
>I still feel, in the center of my being, that microtonal intervals can
>also be larger intervals than intervals "smaller than a semitone." And
>yet I know others teach differently. Maybe it's a better idea to
>simply point to different web sites that are clearer in their biases.
>This list needs to remain tolerant of differences, IMHO.

Agreed. When a term has meanings that are different among different
camps, multiple links to multiple definitions sounds like the perfect
solution.

At the other end of the spectrum, Daniel Wolf's definition of meantones
will be very helpful, do you not think? And there are a multitude of
other topics, controversial or not, that a newcomer would well benefit
from seeing definitions of on first entering the list.

JdL

Without a doubt, a tuning FAQ is an excellent idea as I think back a year or so to how much I as a
composer, performer and teacher of music would have gained from the outset had one been available.
Perhaps if there was more focus on the benefits to the newbie of an FAQ, a start could be made.
And facts are surely facts l so at least these could be given till the opinions have been settled.
If the experts (I mean this sincerely) cannot agree on a definition of Just Intonation then say
so. After all the greatest minds in physics were unable to reconcile macro- and micro-theories
until string theory came along.

I would be in favour of taking a stance in a FAQ by explaining how revolutionary all non-12
systems are in the established musical/commercial western context and perhaps laying out the
inconsistencies and limitations of 12 tet. A good rant or two from Ivor Darreg whom I greatly
admire would help here. After all, that's what we're about, n'est-ce pas? I think it would also be
beneficial to point newbies to recordings or web-based pieces. A lot can become clear with a few
minutes listening and although I take it for granted that I can access all sorts of pieces in
various tunings now I was a bit unsure as to what was going on last year in microtonal/JI music.

Finally, although this is a lot of work (I offer my assistance if I can be of any) I would stress
to newcomers that there is a lot of reprogramming necessary , a fair bit of musical
broad-mindedness needed and certainly an effort required to learn more than just the basics of
mathematics.

But most of all, let's be charitable to the next generation of potential microtonalists.

Several points:

(1) Controversies over nomenclature should simply be left controversial. The FAQ
should, however, explain the most frequently-used abbreviations on the list. I'm
an habituated tet-er, and won't change to EDO, but both abbreviations should be
made plain.

(2) Re: Pehrson's suggestion to adapt Monzo's dictionary to the FAQ. I think
that Monzo's dictionary is a very individual effort, closely reflecting his own
ideas and opinions. And that's fine. (I wish I had the wherewithall to try
something as ambitious). However, the FAQ aspires to reflect the list
consensus, or in absence thereof, to indicate controversies.

(3) Re: "WHY QUARTERTONES ARE NOT SO INTERESTING". I admit that I added that
phrase to my list in part to be provocative (since posting the list only Erlich
responded and no one else has suggested additional topics), but my provocation
does have a serious rationale: for many musicians "quartertone" and "alternative
tuning" are synonymous. Some musicians, including several figures in the new
complexity school, argue for a kind of institutionalisation of quartertones (or
eighthtones, in the case of C-S. Mahnkopf) as the next big thing. I believe,
that it's extremely important for newcomers to our field to be offered some
perspective on (1) the range of meanings the term "quartertone" may convey, (2)
what resources a 24tet tuning system has to offer, and (3) how those resources
compare with those of other tunings systems, whether just or tempered. Perhaps
Stephen Soderberg (if he can take time out from channeling Mr. Ives) and Jeff
Scott (with whose post I am in full agreement) could be persuaded to write a FAQ
item together simply called WHAT'S A QUARTERTONE?

(4) Johnny Reinhard: aside from my single jest above, please tell me what makes
you find "I think there is a lot of bias showing in the making of this FAQ and
it makes me uncomfortable". If you will follow all of my postings on this
topic, I believe that I have gone out of my way to consistantly argue for
inclusiveness and fair presentations of controversies rather than push any
particular bias. If you still believe this to be the case, then obviously my
English prose is too unpracticed for the task and I'll happily leave the FAQ to
others.

Daniel Wolf
Buapest

"WHY QUARTERTONES ARE NOT SO INTERESTING"

How about another one, entitled:

"WHY QUARTERTONES ARE SO INTERESTING"?

Let's keep it balanced, folks!

--- In tuning@y..., "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf1@m...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_19172.html#19188

> (3) Re: "WHY QUARTERTONES ARE NOT SO INTERESTING". I admit that I
added that phrase to my list in part to be provocative (since posting
the list only Erlich responded and no one else has suggested
additional topics), but my provocation does have a serious rationale:
for many musicians "quartertone" and "alternative tuning" are
synonymous. Some musicians, including several figures in the new
> complexity school, argue for a kind of institutionalisation of
quartertones (or eighthtones, in the case of C-S. Mahnkopf) as the
next big thing.

This is a very important point posted by Daniel Wolf. As I have
mentioned in previous posts, I have met several young musicians who
claim to "play microtonally." And, yes, they do mean quartertones,
and only those...

_________ ______ _______ ____
Joseph Pehrson

In a message dated 2/21/01 8:59:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, jpehrson@rcn.com
writes:

> Some musicians, including several figures in the new
> > complexity school, argue for a kind of institutionalization of
> quartertones (or eighthtones, in the case of C-S. Mahnkopf) as the
> next big thing.

So did Ives, Gershwin, Webern, and many others. Quartertones are the gateway
to microtonal music for many. I love to play quartertones. Jacques Dudon is
planning a conference on quartertones to be held a few summers from now in
France, Bulgaria, and Syria...and Jacques is quite a JI musician.

Now, since I got Joseph interested in microtones in the first place, many
years ago, I basically transferred my quartertone origination through my
enthusiasm and control. To remember back, Joseph was quite resistant to
tuning alternatives, remaining so for a decade. He did attend many AFMM
concerts and so he did come into contact with much more. He has obviously
metamorphasized, but quartertones have remained stubbornly the same. I love
quartertones, but like any dish, too much of anything tarnishes. That's what
happened to 12tET, in part.

Johnny Reinhard

Perhaps the question we're looking for here is:

Does microtonal mean using quartertones?

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_19172.html#19220

> In a message dated 2/21/01 8:59:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jpehrson@r...
> writes:
>
> > Some musicians, including several figures in the new
> > > complexity school, argue for a kind of institutionalization of
> > quartertones (or eighthtones, in the case of C-S. Mahnkopf) as
the next big thing.
>

Hi Johnny!

Actually, Daniel Wolf wrote that, but I agreed with him that the
young generation of players "does microtonality" meaning,
quartertones! At least that's been my recent experience with
"ordinary" young musicians, not counting, of course, the wizards in
the AFMM micro band and other specialists!

> So did Ives, Gershwin, Webern, and many others. Quartertones are
the gateway to microtonal music for many. I love to play
quartertones. Jacques Dudon is planning a conference on quartertones
to be held a few summers from now in France, Bulgaria, and
Syria...and Jacques is quite a JI musician.
>

Yes, so that's why it's great that Paul Erlich suggested also a FAQ
entry: "WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT QUARTERTONES??" Margo Schulter has also
commented positively about 24-tET, with copious detailed examples of
the beneficial extended ratios resulting. (I don't have the post
number right here... but it was very illuminating...)

> Now, since I got Joseph interested in microtones in the first
place, many years ago, I basically transferred my quartertone
origination through my enthusiasm and control.

This is very, very, true. Johnny and I go back a long way. In 1982
I had asked Johnny to join me in a public performance of Otto
Luening's piece for bassoon and piano. That's when I met Johnny!
Little did I know what I was getting into!

>To remember back, Joseph was quite resistant to tuning alternatives,
remaining so for a decade.

Yes, it is true. I thought about them carefully every day, and 10
years later made a little progress...

[Actually my NATURE'S HARMONY for two horns in Just Intonation which
was premiered through Johnny's splendid offices was written in
1987... so it was actually 5 years, but, I agree it was a while...]

>He did attend many AFMM concerts and so he did come into contact
with much more.

Absolutely! And the great lectures of the ORIGINAL "MicroFest" which,
I believe was around 1985 or so... all the greatest micro-luminaries
in the World in attendance!

>He has obviously metamorphasized,

Yes it is true. Now I'm TOTALLY F..ked up... Enjoying every minute
of it, though!

but quartertones have remained stubbornly the same. I love
> quartertones, but like any dish, too much of anything tarnishes.
That's what happened to 12tET, in part.
>
> Johnny Reinhard

Absolutely Johnny! You're right that 24-tET can still garnish 12-tET
with relish!

________ ______ _____ _
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@y..., "Dave Keenan" <D.KEENAN@U...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_19172.html#19221

> Perhaps the question we're looking for here is:
>
> Does microtonal mean using quartertones?

whewwwieee.... I think Dave Keenan is putting a little "bait" out
here... Who's first in the water??

__________ ______ ______ ____
Joseph Pehrson

quartertones, commas,liemmas etceteras

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: <jpehrson@rcn.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 10:20 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Let's make a FAQ

> --- In tuning@y..., "Dave Keenan" <D.KEENAN@U...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_19172.html#19221
>
> > Perhaps the question we're looking for here is:
> >
> > Does microtonal mean using quartertones?
>
> whewwwieee.... I think Dave Keenan is putting a little "bait" out
> here... Who's first in the water??
>
> __________ ______ ______ ____
> Joseph Pehrson
>
>
>
>
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--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Dave Keenan" <D.KEENAN@U...> wrote:
>
> /tuning/topicId_19172.html#19221
>
> > Perhaps the question we're looking for here is:
> >
> > Does microtonal mean using quartertones?
>
> whewwwieee.... I think Dave Keenan is putting a little "bait" out
> here... Who's first in the water??

Huh? No way.

Given the current climate, I'm trying to be as non-controversial as
possible. My only concern with the FAQ is to help newbies. So let me
try again.

Q. "Is microtonalism the same as using quartertones?"

A. "No. While quartertones are one possibility, there are many many
others."

How controversial could that be?

This could be in addition to the (possibly less important)
question(s), "What are the pros and cons of using quartertones?".

Regards,

--- In tuning@y..., "Dave Keenan" <D.KEENAN@U...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_19172.html#19229

> --- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., "Dave Keenan" <D.KEENAN@U...> wrote:
> >
> > /tuning/topicId_19172.html#19221
> >
> > > Perhaps the question we're looking for here is:
> > >
> > > Does microtonal mean using quartertones?
> >
> > whewwwieee.... I think Dave Keenan is putting a little "bait"
out
> > here... Who's first in the water??
>
> Huh? No way.
>
> Given the current climate, I'm trying to be as non-controversial as
> possible. My only concern with the FAQ is to help newbies. So let
me
> try again.
>

Sorry, Dave, if I misread your intentions...

_________ ___ _ __
Joseph Pehrson

In a message dated 2/21/01 7:20:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
djwolf1@matavnet.hu writes:

> Several points:
>
> (1) Controversies over nomenclature should simply be left controversial.
The
> FAQ
> should, however, explain the most frequently-used abbreviations on the
list.
> I'm
> an habituated tet-er, and won't change to EDO, but both abbreviations
should
> be
> made plain.

Makes sense.

> (2) Re: Pehrson's suggestion to adapt Monzo's dictionary to the FAQ. I
> think
> that Monzo's dictionary is a very individual effort, closely reflecting
his
> own
> ideas and opinions. And that's fine. (I wish I had the wherewithall to try
> something as ambitious). However, the FAQ aspires to reflect the list
> consensus, or in absence thereof, to indicate controversies.

This is perspective that I don't share. I'm afraid of there be more
individual effort than any writer intends. This is pointed an nobody in
particular.

> (3) Re: "WHY QUARTERTONES ARE NOT SO INTERESTING". I admit that I added
> that
> phrase to my list in part to be provocative (since posting the list only
> Erlich
> responded and no one else has suggested additional topics), but my
> provocation
> does have a serious rationale: for many musicians "quartertone" and "
> alternative
> tuning" are synonymous. Some musicians, including several figures in the
new
> complexity school, argue for a kind of institutionalisation of
quartertones (
> or
> eighthtones, in the case of C-S. Mahnkopf) as the next big thing. I
believe,
> that it's extremely important for newcomers to our field to be offered some
> perspective on (1) the range of meanings the term "quartertone" may
convey, (
> 2)
> what resources a 24tet tuning system has to offer, and (3) how those
> resources
> compare with those of other tunings systems, whether just or tempered.
> Perhaps
> Stephen Soderberg (if he can take time out from channeling Mr. Ives) and
> Jeff
> Scott (with whose post I am in full agreement) could be persuaded to write
a
> FAQ
> item together simply called WHAT'S A QUARTERTONE?

To me there are unnecessary value judgments being imparted. Why introduce a
polemic in a FAQ. Thinking further on living practitioners of tuning
systems, this could be accomplished with as large a list as possible that we
all compile and which is available from the FAQ site. Perhaps it seems as if
there is sensitivity, and there is. We love the tunings we work with and are
some times critical of the those we don't. The jest in itself if fine, of
course.

> (4) Johnny Reinhard: aside from my single jest above, please tell me what
> makes
> you find "I think there is a lot of bias showing in the making of this FAQ
> and
> it makes me uncomfortable". If you will follow all of my postings on this
> topic, I believe that I have gone out of my way to consistently argue for
> inclusiveness and fair presentations of controversies rather than push any
> particular bias. If you still believe this to be the case, then obviously
> my
> English prose is too unpracticed for the task and I'll happily leave the
FAQ
> to
> others.

> Daniel Wolf
> Buapest

Please "chill out" and realize that your scholarship is most welcome and
appreciated. Right or wrong you provide a valuable opportunity to try an
idea out. Sometimes you are right and sometimes (rarely) wrong. However,
this is not the same as realizing when one's description of a topic is
biased. One person's individual approach is another person's
universal...until it is challenged in the open air. That's all I want to see
happen. Please, continue.

Johnny Reinhard

Margo Schulter -

I'm delighted that you'll be taking part in the FAQ. Since Dave Keenan declined
to do "What is Just Intonation?", your offer to write on this is welcome and, if
I may put it this way, brave. I hope that Keenan will reconsider on
CONSONANCE-DISSONANCE MEASURES.

Dan Stearns -

You've made some excellent suggestions. However, the terms MICROTONE and
MICROTONALITY should probably stay off the FAQ, as consensus on these has long
proven impossible. This is, officially, "The Alternative Tunings List", and
that still seems as neutral a term as possible.

To all:

(1) Do you feel that discussing each proposed FAQ item on the list will be
useful and interesting? Should it be moved off-list, either (a) to a separate
list, or (b) to post drafts to the list files web page, announce the posting to
the list, and then direct any responses to the writer by offlist emails.

(2) How will we know when a FAQ item is ready for publication? In the absence of
an editor with authority to make this judgement, perhaps the the following
process could be adapted to indicate consent from the group: Following the
posting of a draft, group discussions, corrections by the author, and a
breathing space of a week or so, any member of the list may nominate the item
for inclusion in the FAQ, simply by sending an email to the list with the words
"I nominate "WHAT IS X". At this point, any list member may object to
publication (a consensus principle). The objection, however, must be in the
form of a substitute draft (a "put up or shut up" principle). The author of the
original draft now has the opportunity to withdraw in favor of the substitute,
to seek some compromise with the objector, offlist, or to stand firm on the
original draft. If both parties remain firm about their differences, they can
agree to neutral and binding arbitrator, or they can agree to publish both
items, or they can agree to withdraw both items, or, only after failing all of
these options, they can submit the two drafts to a poll of the list membership.

(3) Final editing of the items into a single FAQ document. This is where we
should seek -- a la Joseph Pehrson -- an editor. The above procedure is designed
to find consensus on content, but when it comes to compiling the document for
publication, I believe we can agree to accept an autocrat. This person should
have HTML fluency, and access to an English language spelling and grammar
checker.

Daniel Wolf

--- In tuning@y..., "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf1@m...> wrote:
>However, the terms MICROTONE
and
> MICROTONALITY should probably stay off the FAQ, as consensus on
these has long
> proven impossible.

I think that newbies will definitely see these terms used and want to
know what they mean. We'll just have to give multiple definitions for
them, if it isn't possible to frame one that's fuzzy enough to include
all.

[Daniel Wolf:]
>>However, the terms MICROTONE and MICROTONALITY should probably stay
>>off the FAQ, as consensus on these has long proven impossible.

[Dave Keenan:]
>I think that newbies will definitely see these terms used and want to
>know what they mean. We'll just have to give multiple definitions for
>them, if it isn't possible to frame one that's fuzzy enough to include
>all.

I very much agree with Dave on this issue: it is precisely those terms
that are ambiguous in use that most need to be included in a FAQ. Let
each camp provide a definition for what each understands the word to
mean, and put all the possible meanings in the FAQ. Certainly, if we
can include "What is JI?", we can include "What is a microtone?".

JdL

Daniel Wolf wrote,

<<the terms MICROTONE and MICROTONALITY should probably stay off the
FAQ, as consensus on these has long proven impossible. This is,
officially, "The Alternative Tunings List", and that still seems as
neutral a term as possible.>>

Neutral yes, but still confusing and prone to awkwardness I think --
especially for the uninitiated who are much more apt to associate this
with say DADGAD etc., than with say quartertones etc.!

I think it -- 'WHAT IS MICROTONALITY?' -- is so basic and frequent a
question, number one on my simple question list in fact, that it *has*
to be addressed... in fact, it would seem absurd to just leave it off
the list altogether! The literalist and the generalist views can
surely both be represented well enough to satisfy everyone I would
think... ? It could also be a fitting context to ease in other more
specialized or esoteric terms such as "alternative tuning" and
"xenharmonic".

--Dan Stearns

Dan Stearns wrote:

> I think it -- 'WHAT IS MICROTONALITY?' -- is so basic and frequent a
> question, number one on my simple question list in fact, that it *has*
> to be addressed... in fact, it would seem absurd to just leave it off
> the list altogether! The literalist and the generalist views can
> surely both be represented well enough to satisfy everyone I would
> think... ? It could also be a fitting context to ease in other more
> specialized or esoteric terms such as "alternative tuning" and
> "xenharmonic".

I'm sure with a sprinkle of pixie dust we can come up with something.

Some people would say that what we do is microtonality.
We don't use the word much, because we're not sure what it means.

"Microtone" should be easier. How about an interval noticeably smaller
than an equal tempered semitone?

Graham

In a message dated 2/23/01 3:59:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
graham@microtonal.co.uk writes:

> Some people would say that what we do is microtonality.
> We don't use the word much, because we're not sure what it means.
>
>
> "Microtone" should be easier. How about an interval noticeably smaller
> than an equal tempered semitone?
>
>
> Graham
>

This has been difficult for some on this list, myself included. The
practical side of concertizing microtonal music is that it isn't the interval
that is smaller than a semitone that makes it a "microtone" or even a
microtonal interval. It has long been considered a microtonal affair by the
media and major composers that whenever music is made up of intended
intervals that are not to be found on a conventionally tuned piano. Ignoring
this cultural reality, at least in the greater New York area, makes for
disagreement on this term and its related terms. This is not the time to
start this up again, but I wanted to be clear about the difficulty.

Johnny Reinhard
Director
American Festival of Microtonal Music, Inc.

--- In tuning@y..., "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf1@m...> wrote:

> (1) Do you feel that discussing each proposed FAQ item on the list
will be
> useful and interesting? Should it be moved off-list, either (a) to
a separate
> list, or (b) to post drafts to the list files web page, announce
the posting to
> the list, and then direct any responses to the writer by offlist
emails.

I vote for either or both of these options.

> (2) How will we know when a FAQ item is ready for publication? In
the absence of
> an editor with authority to make this judgement, perhaps the the
following
> process could be adapted to indicate consent from the group:
Following the
> posting of a draft, group discussions, corrections by the author,
and a
> breathing space of a week or so, any member of the list may
nominate the item
> for inclusion in the FAQ, simply by sending an email to the list
with the words
> "I nominate "WHAT IS X". At this point, any list member may object
to
> publication (a consensus principle). The objection, however, must
be in the
> form of a substitute draft (a "put up or shut up" principle). The
author of the
> original draft now has the opportunity to withdraw in favor of the
substitute,
> to seek some compromise with the objector, offlist, or to stand
firm on the
> original draft. If both parties remain firm about their
differences, they can
> agree to neutral and binding arbitrator, or they can agree to
publish both
> items, or they can agree to withdraw both items, or, only after
failing all of
> these options, they can submit the two drafts to a poll of the list
membership.

Sounds good -- but I don't think we need to be quite so "ruley" --
rules will be broken.

Johnny Reinhard wrote:

> This has been difficult for some on this list, myself included. The
> practical side of concertizing microtonal music is that it isn't the
> interval that is smaller than a semitone that makes it a "microtone" or
> even a microtonal interval. It has long been considered a microtonal
> affair by the media and major composers that whenever music is made up
> of intended intervals that are not to be found on a conventionally
> tuned piano. Ignoring this cultural reality, at least in the greater
> New York area, makes for disagreement on this term and its related
> terms. This is not the time to start this up again, but I wanted to be
> clear about the difficulty.

But need microtonal music (whatever it is) include microtones?

Graham

Graham Breed wrote,

<<Some people would say that what we do is microtonality. We don't use
the word much, because we're not sure what it means.>>

Hmm... I use it all the time!

Johnny Reinhard,

<<It has long been considered a microtonal affair by the
media and major composers that whenever music is made up of intended
intervals that are not to be found on a conventionally tuned piano.>>

I'm in completely agreement with Johnny here... however, what I said
before is why can't we just have a simple literal type interpretation:

"...microtone was a term coined by _________ to mean an interval
smaller than a __________..."

And a more general type interpretation:

"...the terms microtonal and microtonality are often meant to indicate
music made up of intended intervals that are not to be found on a
conventionally tuned piano..."

Wouldn't something a little more detailed, but along these general
lines tell it like it is, and pretty much cover everybody's favored
usage?

--Dan Stearns

i like it!

"D.Stearns" wrote:

>
> And a more general type interpretation:
>
> "...the terms microtonal and microtonality are often meant to indicate
>
> music made up of intended intervals that are not to be found on a
> conventionally tuned piano..."
>
> Wouldn't something a little more detailed, but along these general
> lines tell it like it is, and pretty much cover everybody's favored
> usage?
>
> --Dan Stearns

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Dan Stearns wrote:

> Graham Breed wrote,
>
> <<Some people would say that what we do is microtonality. We don't use
> the word much, because we're not sure what it means.>>
>
> Hmm... I use it all the time!

Technically, so do I, every time I send an e-mail. But it isn't used that
often in Tuning List discussions. Although I expect fish don't spend much
time talking about water.

I should have said we can't agree on what it means. Many of us know one
meaning or another.

> I'm in completely agreement with Johnny here... however, what I said
> before is why can't we just have a simple literal type interpretation:
>
> "...microtone was a term coined by _________ to mean an interval
> smaller than a __________..."

That sounds good. Sidestep the issue by giving the history. So long as
somebody can fill in the gaps.

> And a more general type interpretation:
>
> "...the terms microtonal and microtonality are often meant to indicate
> music made up of intended intervals that are not to be found on a
> conventionally tuned piano..."
>
> Wouldn't something a little more detailed, but along these general
> lines tell it like it is, and pretty much cover everybody's favored
> usage?

It'll be a tricky one, probably harder than JI. Hopefully less emotive.
But that looks okay to me, any disagreements?

Graham

Remembering back a few years - How 'bout some simple stuff:

- What are Hertz?
- What are cents?
- How are cents calculated from hertz and vice-versa?
- How does the fractional notation of intervals relate to hertz and cents?
- What is octave reduction and why is it used?
- What is the harmonic series?
- What does it mean when intervals "beat"?
- Why is "microtonal" music more interesting than non-"microtonal" music?
- When was "microtonal" music invented? (always existed but explain, getting
into 12ei per 2/1)
- How did 12ei per 2/1 (or whatever you want to call it) achieve such
prominence in western culture?
- Who is using "microtones" in their compositions? (free advertising!!!)
- Where can I get more information?
- How can I start creating microtonal music of my own?

whaddaya think?,

Andy,
if anybody sees that cracked out domino's pizza bear around - kick it for me,
Fillebrown