Daniel Wolf's notation is elegant

Without a doubt, after finally having some time to think about it,
I find that the system of notation proposed by Daniel Wolf for 19-tET
is elegant.

It retains the historical meantone verities of the system and also
provides, in a SIMPLE way, for easy translation for people accustomed
to 12-tET.

I have to admit, people like Daniel Wolf and Paul Erlich have spent
quite a bit of time thinking about xenharmonic matters, as opposed to
my own ONE year, basically. (Well, I did some earlier pieces too,
but not in the same intensity.) How could I presume that I could
"reinvent the wheel" to any good effect?

The system I was considering with quartertone alterations really is
cumbersome and ungainly in contrast to this and was even going to
CONTRADICT the historical usage of the meantone accidentals.
Although the cents values are rather large in Wolf's system, I
believe players can accustomize themselves to it rather readily,
particularly if the scale is accompanied by an aural CD of it, which
I intend...

However, in a bow to tradition and "Ludditeism" I have decided to
include the 12-tET cents value above EVERY PITCH... so that,
essentially it *IS* a 12-tET score rather than a NEW system of 19
with different visual values for the sounding pitches.

I just feel more comfortable that way...

Thanks to everybody for all the help! I don't know what I would do
if I had to try to dream this all up myself. It would be a mess,
that's for sure...

Thanks again!!!!!!!!

______ ____ ____ ____ _
Joseph Pehrson

19tet score 12tet score
> C C
> C# C# -37
> Db Db +26
> D D -11
> D# D# -47
> Eb Eb +16
> E E -21
> E#/Fb E#-58 or Fb +42
> F F +5
> F# F# -32
> Gb Gb +32
> G G -5
> G# G# -42
> Ab Ab +21
> A A -16
> A# A# -53
> Bb Bb +11
> B B-26
> B#/Cb B#-63 or Cb +37

--- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
>
> The system I was considering with quartertone alterations really is
> cumbersome and ungainly in contrast to this and was even going to
> CONTRADICT the historical usage of the meantone accidentals.

There are great reasons you wouldn't want to contradict it. For
example, if you do it Daniel's way, every notated fifth will sound
the same (consonant), and every notated diminished sixth will sound
the same (dissonant) -- so the score becomes an immediate guide to
the sound you should be expecting. Similarly for the thirds vs.
diminished fourths or augmented seconds.

--- In tuning@y..., PERLICH@A... wrote:

/tuning/topicId_18891.html#18892

> --- In tuning@y..., jpehrson@r... wrote:
> >
> > The system I was considering with quartertone alterations really
is
> > cumbersome and ungainly in contrast to this and was even going to
> > CONTRADICT the historical usage of the meantone accidentals.
>
> There are great reasons you wouldn't want to contradict it. For
> example, if you do it Daniel's way, every notated fifth will sound
> the same (consonant), and every notated diminished sixth will sound
> the same (dissonant) -- so the score becomes an immediate guide to
> the sound you should be expecting. Similarly for the thirds vs.
> diminished fourths or augmented seconds.

Oh boy... Thanks Paul... that's very clear!

_______ _____ ____ __
Joseph Pehrson

Hello list,

For my Upper Division Medieval/Renaissance Music course I have decided to
research tuning. This of course is a broad topic so I need to concentrate
my efforts. I was hoping that some list members could give me some good
ideas... I was thinking of either researching tuning in English virginal
music, or just concentrate on how tuning developed during a period. I am
not sure if their would be any bizarre issues to look into... I guess
ideally I would like to do something odd, such as split key keyboards
allowing for enharmonics in meantone to be heard. Possibly the early
conception of 31-tone equal temperament, if that fits into this period.
Anyway, I was hoping somebody could point me into a fascinating topic that I
don't know anything about.

Thanks,

Steven Kallstrom
skallstr@sun.iwu.edu

--- In tuning@y..., "Steven Kallstrom" <skallstr@s...> wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> For my Upper Division Medieval/Renaissance Music course I
have decided to
> research tuning. This of course is a broad topic so I need to
concentrate
> my efforts. I was hoping that some list members could give me some
good
> ideas... I was thinking of either researching tuning in English
virginal
> music, or just concentrate on how tuning developed during a
period. I am
> not sure if their would be any bizarre issues to look into...

You bet!

I guess
> ideally I would like to do something odd, such as split key
keyboards
> allowing for enharmonics in meantone to be heard. Possibly the
early
> conception of 31-tone equal temperament, if that fits into this
period.

It sure does!

> Anyway, I was hoping somebody could point me into a fascinating
topic that I
> don't know anything about.

How about Vicentino's second tuning systems of 1555? It's perhaps the
earliest known proposal for an "adaptive JI" system. That is, a
system that keeps a certain class of harmonies, in this case major
and minor triads and major seventh chords, in JI, while keeping the
range of variation of the tuning of any given notated pitch much
lower than the usual comma shifts and multi-comma drifts encountered
in strict JI renditions). It requires two separate 1/4-comma meantone
systems, tuned 1/4 comma apart from one another (Vicentino gives 19
notes to one and 17 notes to the other, but that is somewhat
arbitrary). You could, for example, take a piece of Renaissance
music, and play it three ways: first in 1/4-comma meantone, where you
might hear some beating in the fifths and fourths and even minor
thirds and major sixths; second in strict just intonation (this will
require some potentially arbitrary decisions on your part), where you
might hear some comma-sized shifts in particular held or repeated
pitches and/or an overall drift in the pitch level of the piece; and
third in Vicentino's second tuning, where both of these problems will
disappear.

Anyway, Margo Schulter has posted much about Vicentino as well as
other bizarre developments in Renaissance music . . . a quick search
for her name in this list's archives should uncover much of great
interest to you . . .

P.S. I initially thought, from your name, that you had authored a
page on meantone tuning, and hence were familiar with the basic
issues . . . it turns out I was actually thinking of Stephen
Malinowski . . . the page in question is
http://www.well.com/user/smalin/equal5th.htm
. . . which is a great explanation of meantone tuning if you need a
review.