Re: Bell timbre fractal tune

I'd like to share a new FTS piece:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robertwalker/agogo/flute_recorder_bell_partials.mid
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robertwalker/agogo/flute_recorder_bell_partials.ts

Only instruments playing are recorder and flute.

Uses the partials as recorded in:
http://www.oakcroft13.fsnet.co.uk/pandc.htm

Uses the ones with vol. at least 5 % for the note (or doublet):

1/1 1201.74 cents 1491.76 cents 1909.27 cents 1910.25 cents 2400.46 cents 2895.49 cents
2896.94 cents 3106.33 cents 3109.37 cents 3671.72 cents

Flute plays notes selected from these, with a lot of sustain (12 notes), and fluctuating
in speed and volume.

Then, made a custom voice for recorder, playing the partials of the same bell. It uses
the recorded volumes for the partials.

The occasional bell sound aparently at another pitch from the main one, and any extra
(e.g. high) partials you hear are from this.

It's actually playing the same notes as the flute, but with its own multiple pitch
bell-sound timbre.

Sometimes you only hear a few of its partials, or a single note, instead of the complete
bell sound, because it runs out of channels to play in.

I rather like that effect...

Robert

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_18087.html#18087

> I'd like to share a new FTS piece:
>
>
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robertwalker/agogo/flute_recorder_bell_pa
rtials.mid

This is truly fantastic.... Getting FTS to follow this inharmonic
stuff is the best so far, in my opinion....!

By the way... is there any mathematical relationship between fractals
and inharmonic sounds... or are they totally different constructs
(probably)??

__________ ______ ___ _
Joseph Pehrson

Joseph wrote,

>By the way... is there any mathematical relationship between fractals
>and inharmonic sounds... or are they totally different constructs
>(probably)??

Not inharmonic sounds, but chaotic sounds, like multiphonics I believe, have
fractal spectra. (Regular harmonic and inharmonic sounds have discrete
spectra, so not fractal)

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:
> I'd like to share a new FTS piece:
>
>
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robertwalker/agogo/flute_recorder_bell_pa
rtials.mid
>
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robertwalker/agogo/flute_recorder_bell_pa
rtials.ts
>
> Only instruments playing are recorder and flute.
>

Robert,

This is a really lovely and hypnotic little tune! Love it! I think
you are really onto something here. Such an engaging tuning! I could
see this transposed to where it could be used with a sampler, where
one could sample live inharmonic instruments (my prefered method),
and be able to use FFT results to form a scale. Have you thought of
ways to make a number of inharmonic instruments sound more harmonious
as an ensemble?

My favorite blend with inharmonic timbres - as said before - is the
human voice. Imagine what your flute is doing here being sang by many
voices.

Thanks,

Jacky Ligon

BTW, I'm wondering if you might know where I may order a couple
pounds of bat wings and dried toads?

}: )

Jacky wrote,

>My favorite blend with inharmonic timbres - as said before - is the
>human voice. Imagine what your flute is doing here being sang by many
>voices.

Do you really mean inharmonic timbres here, or inharmonic tunings? Flute and
human voice timbres are not inharmonic.

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:
> Do you really mean inharmonic timbres here, or inharmonic tunings?

Both - human voice, singing with inharmonic timbres and inharmonic
tunings.

Strike a gong, and sing the notes you hear - make your voice "unison"
with the components of the sound. It is beautiful to hear and
experience.

Overdub your voice doing this, and make a CD to share with the tuning
list.

Has very little to do with numerology BTW.

: )

Jacky

Jacky wrote,

>Both - human voice, singing with inharmonic timbres and inharmonic
>tunings.

OK -- just making sure you didn't mean human voices singing _in_ inharmonic
timbres!

Of course you can do that too -- just plug a microphone into a ring
modulator, for example.

Hi Joseph,

> This is truly fantastic.... Getting FTS to follow this inharmonic
> stuff is the best so far, in my opinion....!

Great, I'll be doing more for sure.

> By the way... is there any mathematical relationship between fractals
> and inharmonic sounds... or are they totally different constructs
> (probably)??

I'll think about it,...

For harmonic sounds, you do have a kind of fractal for beating notes,
in the way that the number of beats increases as you go up the
series of harmonics.

Pick out every second harmonic in all the series (starting from the octave
for every note), and you will have the same beating partials as before,
only all scaled up to be twice the speed.
be all faster.

The harmonic series itself is a kind of fractal in a way.

The word fractal is used in a very general way in maths, and isn't
restricted to any particular set of precise definitions, but
one general quality involved is usually a kind of scaling
similarlity so it looks similar at a variety of scalings.

Whether there is anything fractal in inharmonic partials, I don't know.

Will keep that in mind. Anyone else got anything on this general topic??

Robert

Hi Jacky!

> This is a really lovely and hypnotic little tune! Love it! I think
> you are really onto something here. Such an engaging tuning! I could
> see this transposed to where it could be used with a sampler, where
> one could sample live inharmonic instruments (my prefered method),
> and be able to use FFT results to form a scale.

Yes, that would be nice indeed.

> and be able to use FFT results to form a scale. Have you thought of
> ways to make a number of inharmonic instruments sound more harmonious
> as an ensemble?

Seems from recent posts that one way to do that is to find the partials of the instrument
and then use that to construct a scale, and try playing in it.

In fact, in a way, that is what this piece does, except that there is an extra
step of also making the timbre out of instruments playing the partials.

I can certainly do more of that. Any recommendations of other sites
that will have lists of partials, or do you have any? I may easily have
missed the posts if you have posted them to the TL (I remember
scales generated in some way from the partials, but don't think
you said they were the partials themselves - or were they?)

I've been updating FTS to make it much easier to enter the partials
to make a timbre - now you just need the list of frequencies or cents,
and the list of volumes, paste each one into the relevant box,
and there you are - the inharmonic timbre as a custom voice
all ready to play. Then you can select / re-select the voice
you want to use to play all the partials with one click as well.

(Ready for next upload, but I'm doing several things at once, so
not sure when exactly it will be ready)

Constructing scales is easy, but not sure how to find the partials of the
timbres I've got on my soundcard.

I can use soundfonts on my soundcard as well, and have also downloaded the
free version of AudioCompositor which makes sound files at 22 hz,
which can use lots of formats, and render the sounds to a file, which will b
fine for making lo-fi samples to try out the idea. So some time will be nice to
spend a while playing around with it and seeing what I can do.

Of course, anyone else can try this out in FTS as well, and it will get
easier and easier to do it as I add more options to FTS.

Best will be if I can get FTS to do the FFT for any timbre you ask it to play,
then whole thing will be done in one place. I'll have to see how easy it is to
program FFT. (it's on my wish list for FTS 1.10)

> My favorite blend with inharmonic timbres - as said before - is the
> human voice. Imagine what your flute is doing here being sang by many
> voices.

Yes, would be very nice...

> BTW, I'm wondering if you might know where I may order a couple
> pounds of bat wings and dried toads?

> }: )

; )

Robert

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

/tuning/topicId_18087.html#18102

> Joseph wrote,
>
> >By the way... is there any mathematical relationship between
fractals and inharmonic sounds... or are they totally different
constructs (probably)??
>
> Not inharmonic sounds, but chaotic sounds, like multiphonics I
believe, have fractal spectra. (Regular harmonic and inharmonic
sounds have discrete spectra, so not fractal)

How about that! So Robert Walker could get the Fractal Tune Smithy
to create and transform multiphonics using fractals!!! That would be
even MORE interesting than fractal development of isolated
pitches!!...

What do you think Robert?? Would this be practical to try?? I would
LOVE to hear it done by FTS...

Sorry to suggest so many projects....(I'm not quite sure where one
would start... but I know you could figure it out right away!)

______ _____ ____ _
Joseph Pehrson

Robert Walker wrote,

>The harmonic series itself is a kind of fractal in a way.

Equal temperament is a kind of fractal -- see _the_ fractal book, Manfred
Schroeder's _Fractals, Chaos, Power Laws_.