The album

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Carl Lumma <ekin@l...> wrote:

> This isn't technology driven. The artistic dynamic range of 3 min.
> is generally less than that of 15.

And the artistic range of either is less than a Beethoven symphony.
But the question before us is albums, and you seem to be arguing my
case for me.

And while I have burnt many a
> groove in many a cd listening to my favorite track again and again,
> sometimes one wants a more lengthy listening experience.

See above. It's called a "composition", and it's been around a long,
long time.

Sure, one
> can make a mix of short tunes (in fact I have made many m3u mixes,
> one of which was broadcast on Berkeley Liberation Radio), but
> sometimes one wants a unified directed message from a single artist.

Which you wont get by mixing your own mix, and putting it on a CD.
And yet, that's now where we are headed. Personally, I like long
pieces with deep intellecutal content, but for that it's usually best
if the artist is dead.

>> Sure, one
>> can make a mix of short tunes (in fact I have made many m3u
>> mixes, one of which was broadcast on Berkeley Liberation
>> Radio), but sometimes one wants a unified directed message
>> from a single artist.
>
> Which you wont get by mixing your own mix, and putting it on
> a CD.

Exactly.

> And yet, that's now where we are headed.

I don't agree.

> Personally, I like
> long pieces with deep intellecutal content, but for that
> it's usually best if the artist is dead.

Me too, but why would the artist have to be dead?

-Carl

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_6776.html#6777

> >> Sure, one
> >> can make a mix of short tunes (in fact I have made many m3u
> >> mixes, one of which was broadcast on Berkeley Liberation
> >> Radio), but sometimes one wants a unified directed message
> >> from a single artist.
> >
> > Which you wont get by mixing your own mix, and putting it on
> > a CD.
>
> Exactly.
>
> > And yet, that's now where we are headed.
>
> I don't agree.
>
> > Personally, I like
> > long pieces with deep intellecutal content, but for that
> > it's usually best if the artist is dead.
>
> Me too, but why would the artist have to be dead?
>
> -Carl

***Well, let's say "venerated" as much as "dead..." The problem is
the expense of recording or presenting long pieces by composers.
The average affordable length on an average concert is about 10
minutes. Anything longer than that "hogs" the concert, and
presenters have to think there is some *particular* reason to go for
it. In the case of somebody like Mahler, there *is* since he is
*both* "venerated" *and* "dead..." :)

JP

hi Joe, Carl, Gene,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:

> > > [Gene]
> > > Personally, I like long pieces with deep
> > > intellecutal content,

me too ... and i didn't even have to mention my stellar
example of that, because Joe Pehrson did it for me!
(see below)

> > > but for that it's usually best if the artist is dead.
> >
> > Me too, but why would the artist have to be dead?
> >
> > -Carl
>
> ***Well, let's say "venerated" as much as "dead..."
> The problem is the expense of recording or presenting
> long pieces by composers. The average affordable length
> on an average concert is about 10 minutes. Anything
> longer than that "hogs" the concert, and presenters have
> to think there is some *particular* reason to go for
> it. In the case of somebody like Mahler, there *is*
> since he is *both* "venerated" *and* "dead..." :)

and he *definitely* hogs the concert! all but two of
Mahler's symphonies are so long that they are generally
presented entirely alone on concerts these days.

... but note that Mahler is also one of the very most
often programmed composers today, right up there with
Beethoven and Mozart.

i wish CD technology could expand the total time just
a *bit* more, so that each of his symphonies would fit
on one CD ... 100 minutes per CD would do the trick.

Mahler's symphonies used to fit comfortably on 2 vinyl discs,
but on CD you end up getting a 2-CD set which has 4 movements
on one CD and only one movement on the other, which then
needs another piece for filler.

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

> > Personally, I like
> > long pieces with deep intellecutal content, but for that
> > it's usually best if the artist is dead.
>
> Me too, but why would the artist have to be dead?

Stravinsky died in 1971, Shostakovich in 1975, Britten in 1976,
Bernstein in 1990, Messiaen in 1992. Where are their replacements?

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> and he *definitely* hogs the concert! all but two of
> Mahler's symphonies are so long that they are generally
> presented entirely alone on concerts these days.
>
> ... but note that Mahler is also one of the very most
> often programmed composers today, right up there with
> Beethoven and Mozart.

You see? That's why Brian's Gothic Symphony doesn't get performed--
Mahler is hogging all the space. :)

> i wish CD technology could expand the total time just
> a *bit* more, so that each of his symphonies would fit
> on one CD ... 100 minutes per CD would do the trick.

When I was discussing the origins of the 74 minute CD, it occurred to
me that had you been in charge, this is exactly what would have
happened.

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Ward Smith" <gwsmith@s...>
wrote:
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> > and he *definitely* hogs the concert! all but two of
> > Mahler's symphonies are so long that they are generally
> > presented entirely alone on concerts these days.
> >
> > ... but note that Mahler is also one of the very most
> > often programmed composers today, right up there with
> > Beethoven and Mozart.
>
> You see? That's why Brian's Gothic Symphony doesn't get
> performed-- Mahler is hogging all the space. :)

yeah, well ... i've known about Brian's _Gothic Symphony_
exactly as long as i've known about Mahler ... read about
them both for the first time in the Guiness Book of World
Records ("longest symphony" ... for Mahler it's his 3rd),
when i was 12 years old.

but i *still* have never heard the Brian. i ordered the
CD from Amazon last year and after repeatedly re-ordering
it, i finally gave up. apparently those who promote Brian
are nowhere near as enthusastic as those who promote Mahler.

> > i wish CD technology could expand the total time just
> > a *bit* more, so that each of his symphonies would fit
> > on one CD ... 100 minutes per CD would do the trick.
>
> When I was discussing the origins of the 74 minute CD,
> it occurred to me that had you been in charge, this is
> exactly what would have happened.

damn right.

-monz

> > > Personally, I like
> > > long pieces with deep intellecutal content, but for that
> > > it's usually best if the artist is dead.
> >
> > Me too, but why would the artist have to be dead?
>
> Stravinsky died in 1971, Shostakovich in 1975, Britten in
> 1976, Bernstein in 1990, Messiaen in 1992. Where are their
> replacements?

There's something to suggest that the school these masters
belonged to is dying or dead (but their equals probably do
exist in other schools). In any case they were no less
great in the 60's, when they were all alive.

-Carl

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> but i *still* have never heard the Brian.

Well, darn. I think you might like it. Have you checked if your local
library has it?