Schoenberg Second String Quartet

Everybody know this piece? Like it?

J. Pehrson

> Everybody know this piece? Like it?
>
> J. Pehrson

I'm glad you asked. It was only been.... egad, my life
is flashing before my eyes, it's been 2 years since I
first heard S's quartets. I was utterly blown away by
#1. I thought they went downhill after that, but I need
to listen to 2 again. . .

-Carl

hi Joe and Carl,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

> > Everybody know this piece? Like it?
> >
> > J. Pehrson
>
> I'm glad you asked. It was only been.... egad, my life
> is flashing before my eyes, it's been 2 years since I
> first heard S's quartets. I was utterly blown away by
> #1. I thought they went downhill after that, but I need
> to listen to 2 again. . .
>
> -Carl

of course, you guys should know that i love this piece.

among Schoenberg's circle, his 2nd Quartet was considered
to rank right up there with Beethoven's final set of quartets.

... but i agree with Carl: as much as i love the 2nd, the 1st
is absolutely one of Schoenberg's finest masterpieces. one
of the greatest string quartets of all time. i've been
itching to make a microtonal version of it since 1988.

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5940

> hi Joe and Carl,
>
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...>
wrote:
>
> > > Everybody know this piece? Like it?
> > >
> > > J. Pehrson
> >
> > I'm glad you asked. It was only been.... egad, my life
> > is flashing before my eyes, it's been 2 years since I
> > first heard S's quartets. I was utterly blown away by
> > #1. I thought they went downhill after that, but I need
> > to listen to 2 again. . .
> >
> > -Carl
>
>
>
> of course, you guys should know that i love this piece.
>
> among Schoenberg's circle, his 2nd Quartet was considered
> to rank right up there with Beethoven's final set of quartets.
>
> ... but i agree with Carl: as much as i love the 2nd, the 1st
> is absolutely one of Schoenberg's finest masterpieces. one
> of the greatest string quartets of all time. i've been
> itching to make a microtonal version of it since 1988.
>
>
>
> -monz

***Gheez, I don't even know that piece! The Second, of course, is
frequently cited because of its transition from "tonality"
to "atonality..." I'll have to get a recording of the whole set,
obviously...

JP

hi Joe,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> > of course, you guys should know that i love this piece.
> >
> > among Schoenberg's circle, his 2nd Quartet was considered
> > to rank right up there with Beethoven's final set of quartets.
> >
> > ... but i agree with Carl: as much as i love the 2nd, the 1st
> > is absolutely one of Schoenberg's finest masterpieces. one
> > of the greatest string quartets of all time. i've been
> > itching to make a microtonal version of it since 1988.
> >
> >
> >
> > -monz
>
>
> ***Gheez, I don't even know that piece! The Second, of course, is
> frequently cited because of its transition from "tonality"
> to "atonality..." I'll have to get a recording of the whole set,
> obviously...
>
> JP

for a good overview of the complete set of string quartets
by Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern, you can't go wrong with
the 4-CD boxed set called "Neue Wiener Schule Streichquartette"
performed by the LaSalle Quartet, on Deutsche Grammophon.
it includes a 338-page book!, with extensive documentary
commentary (from the composers) in German and English.

contents of this set:

Schoenberg:
1st quartet, op 7
2nd quartet, op 10
3rd quartet, op 30
4th quartets, op 37
D-major quartet [1897 - no opus number]

Webern:
5 movements, op 5
6 Bagatelles, op 9
string quartet, op 28
string quartet (1905) [no opus number]

Berg:
Lyric Suite
string quartet, op 3

BUT ...

now, all that said ... you should first go out and get
the single CD containing Schoenberg's 1st Quartet and
Berg's Lyric Suite, performed by the Prazák String Quartet
(the "z" is the Czech letter with the upside-down circumflex
accent over it), on the Praga label (PR 250 034). this
performance of the Schoenberg will absolutely blow your mind
(to quote Carl).

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5944

>> BUT ...
>
> now, all that said ... you should first go out and get
> the single CD containing Schoenberg's 1st Quartet and
> Berg's Lyric Suite, performed by the Prazák String Quartet
> (the "z" is the Czech letter with the upside-down circumflex
> accent over it), on the Praga label (PR 250 034). this
> performance of the Schoenberg will absolutely blow your mind
> (to quote Carl).
>
>
>
>
> -monz

***Well, thanks for the recommendation! It would be nice to have
the _Lyric Suite_ on CD, although I *do* know the work. I was also
looking at a set of Schoenberg's 4 Quartets since, it seems, I only
know the Second. (Know the String Trio, though... )

JP

>> Everybody know this piece? Like it?
>
>> J. Pehrson

Is it a pre-Serialist piece? Refresh my foggy memory, pls...

I am quite fond of Webern's little chamber pieces and some of his piano
stuff...

__/__/__/_//_/_///_//////./../.../...../...../......./..............

Hanuman Zhang, musical mad scientist
(no, I don't wanna take over the world, just the sound spectrum...)
http://www.boheme-magazine.net

"... Music is so very much more powerful and penetrating than is that of the
other arts, for these others speak only of the shadow, but music of the
essence." - Schopenhauer, _The World as Will and Representation_

"... the distillation of experience into pure sound, a state of music, is
timeless and absolute." -Anais Nin

"Any sufficiently advanced music is indistinguishable from noise"
(after Arthur C. Clarke's aphorism that any sufficiently advanced technology
is indistinguisable from magic.)" - John Chalmers, in email response
to the quote _The Difference between Music and Noise is all in your Head_

-|-|--|---|-----|--------|-------------|---------------------|

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> /metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5944
>
> >> BUT ...
> >
> > now, all that said ... you should first go out and get
> > the single CD containing Schoenberg's 1st Quartet and
> > Berg's Lyric Suite, performed by the Prazák String Quartet
> > (the "z" is the Czech letter with the upside-down circumflex
> > accent over it), on the Praga label (PR 250 034). this
> > performance of the Schoenberg will absolutely blow your mind
> > (to quote Carl).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -monz
>
>
> ***Well, thanks for the recommendation! It would be nice to have
> the _Lyric Suite_ on CD, although I *do* know the work. I was also
> looking at a set of Schoenberg's 4 Quartets since, it seems, I only
> know the Second. (Know the String Trio, though... )
>
> JP

ah, Joe ... now you're tying together two of my very favorite
pieces by one of my very favorite composers! give me the
1st Quartet and the String Trio, and toss in _Erwartung_,
and i'll be one happy desert islander!

(... well, of course i need all 10 Mahler symphonies too!)

-monz

hi Zhang,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, czhang23@a... wrote:

> >> Everybody know this piece? Like it?
> >
> >> J. Pehrson
>
> Is it a pre-Serialist piece? Refresh my foggy memory, pls...
>
> I am quite fond of Webern's little chamber pieces and
> some of his piano stuff...

the last movement of Schoenberg's 2nd Quartet is the first
piece to renounce the primacy of a tonal center.

the very next opus he wrote, _Das Buch der hangenden Garten_,
contains songs which are the first completely "atonal" works
... Schoenberg much preferred the term "pantonal".

this was 1908, about 12 years before Schoenberg began seriously
formulating his method of 12-tonal serialism.

these pieces ushered in the period of what we now call
"free atonality", which lasted in his case until about 1915.
after that he was drafted into the army to serve in World War 1,
and his next compositions did not appear until the early 1920s,
and they were serial.

see the relevant years for detailed information, in my chronology:

A Century of New Music in Vienna
http://sonic-arts.org\monzo\schoenberg\Vienna1905.htm

-monz

"Monz" wrote:

>
> for a good overview of the complete set of string quartets
> by Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern, you can't go wrong with
> the 4-CD boxed set called "Neue Wiener Schule Streichquartette"
> performed by the LaSalle Quartet, on Deutsche Grammophon.
> it includes a 338-page book!, with extensive documentary
> commentary (from the composers) in German and English.
>

But the first recording for anybody should be the Kolisch Quartet
complete set, made in a Hollywood sound studio. Kolisch was
Schönberg's in-law, made first concerts of many of S's pieces, and
the Quartet played in equal temperament. But especially because
Kolisch was expert in Wien classic playing style.

Gabor

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "alternativetuning"
<alternativetuning@a...> wrote:

> "Monz" wrote:
>
>
> >
> > for a good overview of the complete set of string quartets
> > by Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern, you can't go wrong with
> > the 4-CD boxed set called "Neue Wiener Schule Streichquartette"
> > performed by the LaSalle Quartet, on Deutsche Grammophon.
> > it includes a 338-page book!, with extensive documentary
> > commentary (from the composers) in German and English.
> >
>
>
> But the first recording for anybody should be the Kolisch Quartet
> complete set, made in a Hollywood sound studio. Kolisch was
> Schönberg's in-law, made first concerts of many of S's pieces, and
> the Quartet played in equal temperament. But especially because
> Kolisch was expert in Wien classic playing style.
>
> Gabor

yes, i do also agree with that. i used to have the Kolisch CD
set but it was stolen along with other my other CDs years ago,
and i never replaced it. is it still readily available?

the big advantages of the LaSalle are the modern sound and
the inclusion of Webern and Berg.

but still ... that Prazac recording of Schoenberg's 1st Q
is stupendous.

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5950

>
> A Century of New Music in Vienna
> http://sonic-arts.org\monzo\schoenberg\Vienna1905.htm
>
>
>
>
> -monz

***Monz, you've really "spiffed up" that page a bit, haven't you? I
can't recall all the graphics from before...

Joe

hi Joe,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> /metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5950
>
> >
> > A Century of New Music in Vienna
> > http://sonic-arts.org\monzo\schoenberg\Vienna1905.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -monz
>
>
> ***Monz, you've really "spiffed up" that page a bit, haven't you?
I
> can't recall all the graphics from before...
>
> Joe

yes ... actually i've been doing a little something to that
page nearly every day for several months now. it's much more
comprehensive and a lot of errors have been fixed, as well
as tons of new graphics and textual content.

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

> these pieces ushered in the period of what we now call
> "free atonality", which lasted in his case until about 1915.
> after that he was drafted into the army to serve in World War 1,
> and his next compositions did not appear until the early 1920s,
> and they were serial.

launching, in my opinion, the most absurd period musical academia has
yet gone through. thankfully, developments outside academia more than
made up for this . . .

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> > these pieces ushered in the period of what we now call
> > "free atonality", which lasted in his case until about 1915.
> > after that he was drafted into the army to serve in World War 1,
> > and his next compositions did not appear until the early 1920s,
> > and they were serial.
>
> launching, in my opinion, the most absurd period musical
> academia has yet gone through. thankfully, developments
> outside academia more than made up for this . . .

paul, you're probably right about that ... but i'd argue that
the difference between that period and earlier ones is only
quantitative, not qualitative.

Mahler wrote a piece when he was 20 years old (_Das Klagende Lied_),
about which he remarked decades later that this piece contains
"the origins of the 'true Mahler'". i don't think it's a
masterpiece on the same level as some of his later symphonies,
but yes, it is indeed a remarkable achievement, especially for
a composer so young.

but when he submitted to a Vienna jury the following year in
hopes of winning the Beethoven prize, it was rejected, and the
piece to which the jury awarded the prize was the _Piano
Concerto in B-minor_ composed by that great master Robert Fuchs
... remember him? ... didn't think so, and that's my point.

the jury included Brahms, Hans Richter, Karl Goldmark,
the conductor Wilhelm Gericke, and from the Vienna Conservatory
Josef Hellmesberger (director) and Franz Krenn and J.N. Fuchs
(brother of the prizewinner), both of whom had been Mahler's
teachers.

none of these eminent musicians was able to recognize the
greatness of Mahler's genius, which is readily apparent in
_Das Klagende Lied_, and a prize which could have done a lot
for his career instead went to someone whom posterity has
deemed to be totally insignificant.

as i argued once before to McLaren, you can't really blame
Schoenberg for what other people did with his theory later.
he had eminently practical reasons for creating 12-tone serialism
instead of plunging into the world of microtonality, which is
what i personally wish he *had* done, and to which he himself
never objected categorically.

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5965

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
>
> > these pieces ushered in the period of what we now call
> > "free atonality", which lasted in his case until about 1915.
> > after that he was drafted into the army to serve in World War 1,
> > and his next compositions did not appear until the early 1920s,
> > and they were serial.
>
> launching, in my opinion, the most absurd period musical academia
has
> yet gone through. thankfully, developments outside academia more
than
> made up for this . . .

***Although I agree with this, in general, it seems a little
strong... There have been some great 12-tone pieces. Name one? Well
Schoenberg's Piano Suite Op. 25, for starters.

What was wrong was the enforced hysteria that *mandated* a certain
esthetic. But that was the time. The same thing was going on with
expressionist vs. representational *painting...*

Joseph

In a message dated 10/4/03 11:04:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jpehrson@... writes:

> What was wrong was the enforced hysteria that *mandated* a certain
> esthetic. But that was the time. The same thing was going on with
> expressionist vs. representational *painting...*
>
> Joseph
>
>
>
>

And Schoenberg was a painter.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Afmmjr@... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/4/03 11:04:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jpehrson@... writes:
>
> > What was wrong was the enforced hysteria that *mandated* a certain
> > esthetic. But that was the time.

There were quite a few, in fact the more talented composers who ignored such
facsism.
My objection to Shoenberg is that he exibits a certain insensitivity to his
own system in that he tried to but some much old stuff into it that doesn't
belong. He forced the new bottle into having old wine. He failed to see what
the system produced itself and went with it. A much better painter. and his
'painting' in the five pieces for orchestra is for me his peak and most
pure composition. Afterwards he stopped painting, in more ways than one.

> The same thing was going on with
> > expressionist vs. representational *painting...*
> >
> > Joseph
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> And Schoenberg was a painter.
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...>
wrote:
>
> > --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> >
> > > these pieces ushered in the period of what we now call
> > > "free atonality", which lasted in his case until about 1915.
> > > after that he was drafted into the army to serve in World War 1,
> > > and his next compositions did not appear until the early 1920s,
> > > and they were serial.
> >
> > launching, in my opinion, the most absurd period musical
> > academia has yet gone through. thankfully, developments
> > outside academia more than made up for this . . .
>
>
>
> paul, you're probably right about that ... but i'd argue that
> the difference between that period and earlier ones is only
> quantitative, not qualitative.

it's qualitative. when in the history of music was there anything
remotely like the rule that you have to use all the notes once before
you can use any of them again? even remotely??

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5981

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> > --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > these pieces ushered in the period of what we now call
> > > > "free atonality", which lasted in his case until about 1915.
> > > > after that he was drafted into the army to serve in World War
1,
> > > > and his next compositions did not appear until the early
1920s,
> > > > and they were serial.
> > >
> > > launching, in my opinion, the most absurd period musical
> > > academia has yet gone through. thankfully, developments
> > > outside academia more than made up for this . . .
> >
> >
> >
> > paul, you're probably right about that ... but i'd argue that
> > the difference between that period and earlier ones is only
> > quantitative, not qualitative.
>
> it's qualitative. when in the history of music was there anything
> remotely like the rule that you have to use all the notes once
before
> you can use any of them again? even remotely??

***Paul, although I, in general, echo your sentiments, you've been a
little strong in this assessment. There have been some fine serial
works. Name them... Well, er, uh, er... er... uh.

Well, seriously, how about Schoenberg's _Piano Suite Op. 25?_ I use
to play that as a teenager...

And, I think Margo Schulter would attest to the fact that the end of
the 13th Century (I believe it was the Ars Subtilior or some such)
had Byzantine rules that probably rivaled the strict serial style
(although maybe not of the *Boulez* kind where *every* parameter is
serialized!) :)

Joseph

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:

> ***Paul, although I, in general, echo your sentiments, you've been
a
> little strong in this assessment. There have been some fine serial
> works.

i didn't claim otherwise . . . but do you really think anyone wrote
better music than they otherwise could have because they were taught
in a classroom to follow this ridiculous rule? rules of harmonic
progression, at least, one can *hear* -- to me they carry a lot of
meaning, whether you observe them or break them. but this?

all i know is, i went to the composition recital of my peers who took
the class at school, many of whom had quite a bit of musical talent,
but what came out at the recital was a whole bunch of non-music :( i
would like to be a better composer, but there has to be a better
way . . .

I with you totally on this Paul!
That music should have some sort of acoustical/ perceptible basis is always
treated as absurd.
I cannot think how the opposite could not be even more so.

Paul Erlich wrote:

>
> i didn't claim otherwise . . . but do you really think anyone wrote
> better music than they otherwise could have because they were taught
> in a classroom to follow this ridiculous rule? rules of harmonic
> progression, at least, one can *hear* -- to me they carry a lot of
> meaning, whether you observe them or break them. but this?
>
> all i know is, i went to the composition recital of my peers who took
> the class at school, many of whom had quite a bit of musical talent,
> but what came out at the recital was a whole bunch of non-music :( i
> would like to be a better composer, but there has to be a better
> way . . .
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

I cannot imagine anyone eating a meal in such a fashion :)

Paul Erlich wrote:

> it's qualitative. when in the history of music was there anything
> remotely like the rule that you have to use all the notes once before
> you can use any of them again? even remotely??

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

ironically, i just ate my sushi that way. california roll, nigiri,
tuna roll, california roll, nigiri, tuna roll . . . of course, when
you eat stuff, it's gone, but when you play a note, it's still there
to be played again . . . so it makes more sense with food than with
music!

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:
> I cannot imagine anyone eating a meal in such a fashion :)
>
> Paul Erlich wrote:
>
> > it's qualitative. when in the history of music was there anything
> > remotely like the rule that you have to use all the notes once
before
> > you can use any of them again? even remotely??
>
> -- -Kraig Grady
> North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
> http://www.anaphoria.com
> The Wandering Medicine Show
> KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

only i would come up with a sychonicity in the wrong way.
I can't think of one Johnny's car analogies so we will have to wait for
him. red light

Paul Erlich wrote:

> ironically, i just ate my sushi that way. california roll, nigiri,
> tuna roll, california roll, nigiri, tuna roll . . . of course, when
> you eat stuff, it's gone, but when you play a note, it's still there
> to be played again . . . so it makes more sense with food than with
> music!
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...>
wrote:

> only i would come up with a sychonicity in the wrong way.

you mean the raw fish would make you "sych" and would therefore "come
up the wrong way?" my apologies, but i really can't make sense of
your comment here. i'm sure it was meant in good humor (as was mine,
of course) . . .

I know i was being obscure but the spirit of the message was understood both
ways

Paul Erlich wrote:

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, kraig grady <kraiggrady@a...>
> wrote:
>
> > only i would come up with a sychonicity in the wrong way.
>
> you mean the raw fish would make you "sych" and would therefore "come
> up the wrong way?" my apologies, but i really can't make sense of
> your comment here. i'm sure it was meant in good humor (as was mine,
> of course) . . .
>
>
> Meta Tuning meta-info:
>
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-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

Anyway, any day, I much prefer Xenakis and Free Improvisation "berry
granola" to generic-brand processed-starch serial ;)

Scientist Phil Uttley "said the music of a black hole could be called
improv." In "comparison to a specific artist or style, he said the late Greek
composer Iannis Xenakis used flicker noise to randomly generate pieces called
stochastic music. 'You could use the variations in the X-ray output of black
holes to produce just this sort of music.'"
" [ ... ] 'Flicker Noise' - Nature's inaudible rhythms & patterns are "in
everything from heartbeats to climate change. Other astronomers have detected
flicker noise in X-ray outputs and in interplanetary magnetic fields."
"Scientists say music is ubiquitous in Nature (Earth itself) and shows up
in the arrangements of the planets, in seascapes, and even in our
brainwaves." --- SPACE.com

"Let the great constellation of flickering ashes be heard..." -Noel Scott
Engel

The German word for "noise" _Geräusch_ is derived from _rauschen_ "the
sound of the wind," related to _Rausch_ "ecstasy, intoxication" hinting at some
of the possible aesthetic, bodily effects of noise in music.

"It's the greatest achievement to be able to hear the sounds of the world,
all the sounds, as part of some vast musical composition with no beginning or
end, but infinite nuance, endless layers and parts in the score... Your ears are
trained when you can take it all in, not just what you like to hear." - David
Rothenberg

"Chance is the inner rhythm of the world, and the soul of poetry." - Miguel
de Unamuno

NADA BRAHMA - Sanskrit, "sound [is the] Godhead"

----------------------------

... BTW... here is my very best mind-blowing xenotonal scale yet!!!!:

_fuzayin_:
a non-octave, nonJI/nonET,
hyper-chromatic/Sino-Locrian musical scale
---------------------------------

Archaic Chinese rendered in modern Mandarin/PinYin:

_fuza_ /fu:.dza:/ "complex"
[fOO-dzah, _z_ like the 'dz' in "adze"; like "future" really slurred]

_yin_ /jIn/ "sound/noise, timbre/inharmonic tone"
[Yin, _y_ like the 'y' in "yeah," 'j' in "ja"; rhymes with 'pin']

-|-|--|---|-----|--------|-------------|---------------------|

Fuzayin is a 16-tone scale, from tonic to a minor 10th
- the numbers 16 & 10 are intense _yin_ * numbers
according to Chinese numerology based on the
_Yijing_ (I Ching)

* _yin_ - the polar opposite of _yang_; _yin_ represents the:
Macrocosm, Chaos, Complexity, Negative, Passive, Receptive,
Evil, Darkness, Night, the Moon, Love, Feminine, Earth,
Chthonicism, Winter, Water, Ice, Metal, Destruction, Death,
Entropy, Zero, Nothingness, All Dark Colours/Sounds, Noise, Silence,
et cetra ad infinitum ∞

_fuzayin_ in cents: 0, 150, 233, 289,
426, 536, 627, 677,
746, 766, 850, 977,
1116, 1230, 1354, 1492

Cents Closest JI Ratio(s) Name (if any)/descriptive

0.000 1/1 C tonic = "electric hum" C 66 Hz
_kyu_: Japanese gagaku tonic
derived from T'ang Dynasty
Chinese music, Hindu _sa_

150.0 12/11 150.6 Cx = snarlin' "utonal red"
1/2-step

233.0 8/7 231.2 Ebb = septimal "xeno-bleu" whole-tone
63/55 235.1 (rough- beating in
lower & middle registers)

289 13/11 289.2 Eb = harsh "black" minor 3rd

426 23/18 424.4 Fb=
32/25 427.4 diminished fourth - "metallic
gun grey"
Wolf-Greater-Than-Major-3rd

536 49/36 533.8 Gbb= "xeno-bleu" low tritone
512/375 539.1

627 56/39 626.3 Gb= "opalescent black" tritone
23/16 628.3 23rd harmonic

677 34/23 676.7 G= "ultraviolet" high tritone
40/27 680.5 dissonant "wolf" 5-limit 5th

746 20/13 745.8 Abb= wide "iridian blue-black wolf"
5th - 77/50 747.5 used rarely except in
verrrry
adventurous chromatic works

766 14/9 764.9 Ab= septimal "aquamarine"
120/77 768.1 minor 6th

850 49/30 849.4 Gx= septimal "xeno-bleu"
18/11 852.6 undecimal "median" 6th

977 7/4 968.8 Bb= septimal "xeno-bleu" minor 7th
23/13 987.7

1116 40/21 1115.5 B= extreme "xeno-bleu" Major 7th
343/180 1116.3

1230 2/1 + 65/64 Dbb= shimmerin' "iridian
blue-black"
[5 x 13:2^6] 26.8 minor 8th
2/1 + 56/55
[2^3 x 7:5 x 11] 31.2

1353 677 cents x 2 - 1 cent Cx= utonal "black" double
tritone, minor 9th

1492 746 cents x 2 Eb= ultrachromatic "Yves Klein
Bleu wolf" double
tritone minor 10th

odd coincidences: c. 0 CE - Germanic tribes attacked Roman Empire
(Rome retreats to Rhine, 9 CE)
c.150 - Antonine Wall built in Britain
c.233 - political tensions in Rome started its fall
c.289 - Diocletian, Roman Emperor, (284-305)
reestablishes frontiers, reforms government,
later persecutes Christians;
monastic ideal spred by St. Anthony;
Classic Maya civilization emerged in
Tikal and Palenque
c.426 - end of Eastern Jin Dynasty in China
c.536 - end of Gupta Empire in India
c.627 - Angle and Saxon kingdoms in Britain
clashed for power;
Mayan civilization was at its height
c.677 - Constantinople fought off Arabs
c.746 - Golden Age of Chinese poetry -
Li Po (701-61)
c.850 - Buddhism outlawed in China;
windmills in Europe ["satanic mills" -
William Blake];
Carolingian Empire divided;
Vikings go as far as Volga and Baghdad
c.977 - Viking settlements begun in Greenland;
New Mayan empire emerged under
Toltec influences
c. 1116 - Jin Dynasty in Manchuria (1115-1234);
"rediscovery" of Aristotle
c.1230 - Frederick II negogiated access for pilgrims
to the Holy Land;
Mali Empire established in West Africa
c. 1354 - disease and famine weakened Yuan
Dynasty in China;
paper-mills in Italy;
Flemish art emerged;
cannon first used in combat;
Black Death reached Europe from
China - Black Death claimed 1/3
of English population;
Aztec Empire thrived;
Ottoman Turks entered Europe
c. 1492 - Leonardo di Vinci (1452-1519);
reconquest of Spain from Moors;
Columbus reached the New World

-|-|--|---|-----|--------|-------------|---------------------|

Hanuman Zhang, musical mad scientist
(no, I don't wanna take over the world, just the sound spectrum...)
http://www.boheme-magazine.net

"... simple, chaotic, anarchic and menacing.... This is what people of today
have lost and need most - the ability to experience permanent bodily and
mental ecstasy, to be a receiving station for messages howling by on the ether from
other worlds and nonhuman entities, those peculiar short-wave messages which
come in static-free in the secret pleasure center in the brain." - Slava Ranko
(Donald L. Philippi)

MY FRIEND FLICKER

czhang23@... wrote:

>
> Scientist Phil Uttley "said the music of a black hole could be called
> improv." In "comparison to a specific artist or style, he said the late Greek
> composer Iannis Xenakis used flicker noise to randomly generate pieces called
> stochastic music. 'You could use the variations in the X-ray output of black
> holes to produce just this sort of music.'"
> " [ ... ] 'Flicker Noise' - Nature's inaudible rhythms & patterns are "in
> everything from heartbeats to climate change. Other astronomers have detected
> flicker noise in X-ray outputs and in interplanetary magnetic fields."
> "Scientists say music is ubiquitous in Nature (Earth itself) and shows up
> in the arrangements of the planets, in seascapes, and even in our
> brainwaves." --- SPACE.com
>
> "Let the great constellation of flickering ashes be heard..." -Noel Scott
> Engel
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

In a message dated 10/6/2003 11:25:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kraiggrady@... writes:

> only i would come up with a sychonicity in the wrong way.
> I can't think of one Johnny's car analogies so we will have to wait for
> him. red light
>
> Paul Erlich wrote:
>
> >ironically, i just ate my sushi that way. california roll, nigiri,
> >tuna roll, california roll, nigiri, tuna roll . . . of course, when
> >you eat stuff, it's gone, but when you play a note, it's still there
> >to be played again . . . so it makes more sense with food than with
> >music!
> >
>
>

S'funny but I drive like that. When I was in LA, trying to find addresses, I
would go up and down every conceiveable street before settling in at the
right one, becoming quite late in the process. Even happened on the way to the
airport!

As for serialism, Schoenberg's method was eminently teachable, a true system
of composition. I'm not as negative about it as Paul and Kraig. Some
musically oriented people simply cannot compose a melody (e.g. La Monte Young).

best, Johnny

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

More than one composer has been lead astray by 'harmony'.
Other composers have been taught to be afraid of it.
I do though find some of the segments in the WTP quite melodic and very beautiful
in this regard.

Afmmjr@... wrote:

Some

> musically oriented people simply cannot compose a melody (e.g. La Monte Young).
>
>
>

-- -Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria Island
http://www.anaphoria.com
The Wandering Medicine Show
KXLU 88.9 FM WED 8-9PM PST

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5988

> ironically, i just ate my sushi that way. california roll, nigiri,
> tuna roll, california roll, nigiri, tuna roll . . . of course, when
> you eat stuff, it's gone, but when you play a note, it's still
there
> to be played again . . . so it makes more sense with food than with
> music!
>

***But you might get hungry again, and eat the meal in exactly the
same way...

JP

[Maybe inverting it here and there...]

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5930.html#5985

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
> wrote:
>
> > ***Paul, although I, in general, echo your sentiments, you've
been
> a
> > little strong in this assessment. There have been some fine
serial
> > works.
>
> i didn't claim otherwise . . . but do you really think anyone wrote
> better music than they otherwise could have because they were
taught
> in a classroom to follow this ridiculous rule? rules of harmonic
> progression, at least, one can *hear* -- to me they carry a lot of
> meaning, whether you observe them or break them. but this?
>
> all i know is, i went to the composition recital of my peers who
took
> the class at school, many of whom had quite a bit of musical
talent,
> but what came out at the recital was a whole bunch of non-music :(
i
> would like to be a better composer, but there has to be a better
> way . . .

***Hi Paul,

I have a slight *inversion* :) of your story I would like to relate:

When I was a TA at Michigan, too many years ago now, the main Prof
was Chris Rouse (let's not go there...)

He was teaching a composition class to non-music majors, complete
newbies. They came in strumming about three chords on their guitars,
and that's all the music they knew.

Well, he taught them the serial method and the pieces that resulted
were *far* superior than what they could have done otherwise, since
they just learned that particular system and didn't have to have any
other musical training... !

I'm not saying that any of the pieces were good, or even particularly
musical, or even that the serial method is musical (I happen to think
it *isn't*, personally) but I'm just relating a curious experiment in
training the untutored...

JP

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:

> I'm not saying that any of the pieces were good,
> or even particularly musical, or even that the
> serial method is musical (I happen to think
> it *isn't*, personally) but I'm just relating
> a curious experiment in training the untutored...

interesting story, Joe.

i just wanted to point out again (as i have several times
before) that Schoenberg did indeed seem to have the
overtone series in mind as some kind of paradigm when
he wrote his pantonal ("atonal") music, but that unfortunately,
except for the meager scraps of info about that which appear
in _Harmonielehre_ and some of his articles and lectures,
no-one outside the innermost Schoenberg circle knows much
about that.

so when serialism took over musical academia after World War 2,
the harmonic aspect that was so important to Schoenberg was
completely divorced from its presentation, and at least a
couple of generations of academically-trained composers
grew up in *that* (non-harmonic-based) milieu.

it wasn't until the advent of the "new romanticism" and
minimalism in the early 1980s, and especially the strong
interest in microtonality since the late 1990s, that i have
any sense of that changing. but things do seem to be better
now.

i'm not too closely associated with academia these days,
but i have spent some time hanging out at UCSD in recent years
and the composition teachers and students all seem to be
far less close-minded about serialism, and open to a much
broader palette of musical expression than when i was in
school around 1980.

-monz

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <monz@a...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5930.html#6002

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm not saying that any of the pieces were good,
> > or even particularly musical, or even that the
> > serial method is musical (I happen to think
> > it *isn't*, personally) but I'm just relating
> > a curious experiment in training the untutored...
>
>
>
> interesting story, Joe.
>
> i just wanted to point out again (as i have several times
> before) that Schoenberg did indeed seem to have the
> overtone series in mind as some kind of paradigm when
> he wrote his pantonal ("atonal") music, but that unfortunately,
> except for the meager scraps of info about that which appear
> in _Harmonielehre_ and some of his articles and lectures,
> no-one outside the innermost Schoenberg circle knows much
> about that.
>
> so when serialism took over musical academia after World War 2,
> the harmonic aspect that was so important to Schoenberg was
> completely divorced from its presentation, and at least a
> couple of generations of academically-trained composers
> grew up in *that* (non-harmonic-based) milieu.
>
> it wasn't until the advent of the "new romanticism" and
> minimalism in the early 1980s, and especially the strong
> interest in microtonality since the late 1990s, that i have
> any sense of that changing. but things do seem to be better
> now.
>
> i'm not too closely associated with academia these days,
> but i have spent some time hanging out at UCSD in recent years
> and the composition teachers and students all seem to be
> far less close-minded about serialism, and open to a much
> broader palette of musical expression than when i was in
> school around 1980.
>
>
>
> -monz

***Why, of course, Monz, and it was even *worse* in the 1960's and
70's when *I* was in school... One couldn't even write a *major
triad* without being tarred, feathered and ridden out of town...

JP