recommendations on digital recorder?

I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a portable
walkman-sized *digital* recorder? I don't want to spend more than
about $500.

I was using a Sony "professional Walkman" for many years and the
sound quality was excellent, but it's superseded, of course, today by
digital technology.

Thanks!

Joseph

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
>
> I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a portable
> walkman-sized *digital* recorder?

I'll write you back here a little later - I've definitely got some ideas, since earlier this year I did some research and have been doing portable recording with a minidisc. Let me get some resources (and I gotta do some weekend chores first) and I'll post info.

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5825.html#5826

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a portable
> > walkman-sized *digital* recorder?
>
> I'll write you back here a little later - I've definitely got some
ideas, since earlier this year I did some research and have been
doing portable recording with a minidisc. Let me get some resources
(and I gotta do some weekend chores first) and I'll post info.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Great, Jon! I'm anxious to hear your results. I would also like
to find out more about file formats and how I could transfer whatever
the minidisc records to .wav format and get it inside my computer.

Also, whether any of these recorders work over a USB port. That
would be the coolist, if they do...

Thanks!

Joe

Joseph Pehrson wrote:

>***Great, Jon! I'm anxious to hear your results. I would also like >to find out more about file formats and how I could transfer whatever >the minidisc records to .wav format and get it inside my computer.
> >
Run an audio cable into your soundcard I think is the best way.

>Also, whether any of these recorders work over a USB port. That >would be the coolist, if they do...
> >
I've got one of them. It works middling well, but only in Windows and the software probably mucks about with the boot sector. It works with some, but not all MP3s. There are various things it does to piss you off. One of them is you aren't allowed to copy anything you recorded yourself onto a PC. Another is that there's no digital output. You can probably get around these problems by getting a "professional" model that costs 10 times as much.

Make sure it has a microphone socket. Mine doesn't, and I didn't realize anybody would think of making a minidisc recorder that didn't have a microphone socket.

Another thing is that it broke not long after I got it, and it took them months to get it fixed on warranty. Presumably, everybody else will say they've never had any trouble, but I know I'll be avoiding Sony in future.

Graham

> I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a portable
> walkman-sized *digital* recorder? I don't want to spend more than
> about $500.
>
> I was using a Sony "professional Walkman" for many years and the
> sound quality was excellent, but it's superseded, of course, today
> by digital technology.

Unforch, it isn't. There are a few things out there that record
mp3, by Archos and Pogo that I know of. There's this...

http://www.nagraaudio.com/pages/nagraaresp.php?etat=2

...but it'll cost you more than $500. Tascam and Korg both make
very small solid-state 4-track recorders for under $500, but they're
limited to very poor bitrates and they can't address media larger
than 128 megs and of course they can't record more thna 2 tracks
at once.

-Carl

Joe,

One more important thing: sit down for a second and write down *exactly* what you think you intend to do with this thing. Try and focus as much as you can. When offering tips on technology, it really helps to narrow the search to items that would be most appropriate. Otherwise one just ends up throwing all kinds of ideas at you, over-the-top and under-the-need, and you don't need to be wasting time on the tips.

And neither do we!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:

www.minidisco.com

> Joseph Pehrson wrote:
>
> >***Great, Jon! I'm anxious to hear your results. I would also
like
> >to find out more about file formats and how I could transfer
whatever
> >the minidisc records to .wav format and get it inside my computer.
> >
> >
> Run an audio cable into your soundcard I think is the best way.
>
> >Also, whether any of these recorders work over a USB port. That
> >would be the coolist, if they do...
> >
> >
> I've got one of them. It works middling well, but only in Windows
and
> the software probably mucks about with the boot sector. It works
with
> some, but not all MP3s. There are various things it does to piss
you
> off. One of them is you aren't allowed to copy anything you
recorded
> yourself onto a PC. Another is that there's no digital output.
You can
> probably get around these problems by getting a "professional"
model
> that costs 10 times as much.
>
> Make sure it has a microphone socket. Mine doesn't, and I didn't
> realize anybody would think of making a minidisc recorder that
didn't
> have a microphone socket.
>
> Another thing is that it broke not long after I got it, and it took
them
> months to get it fixed on warranty. Presumably, everybody else
will say
> they've never had any trouble, but I know I'll be avoiding Sony in
future.
>
>
> Graham

***Thanks, Graham. Actually, I went over to:

http://www.minidisco.com

on a friend's recommendation, and I was shocked to find that you had
to record ANALOG output. Dumb. I mean why bother? I could just as
well keep using my Sony Professional with *tape* and do that! It has
a great sound. If I'm going analog what difference does it make! I
was hoping there would be some kind of recorder that would let me
create .wav files or such like and I could USB them over to the
computer. This stuff sounds way behind, yes?? Gheez...

J. Pehrson

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5825.html#5832

> > I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a portable
> > walkman-sized *digital* recorder? I don't want to spend more than
> > about $500.
> >
> > I was using a Sony "professional Walkman" for many years and the
> > sound quality was excellent, but it's superseded, of course, today
> > by digital technology.
>
> Unforch, it isn't. There are a few things out there that record
> mp3, by Archos and Pogo that I know of. There's this...
>
> http://www.nagraaudio.com/pages/nagraaresp.php?etat=2
>
> ...but it'll cost you more than $500. Tascam and Korg both make
> very small solid-state 4-track recorders for under $500, but they're
> limited to very poor bitrates and they can't address media larger
> than 128 megs and of course they can't record more thna 2 tracks
> at once.
>
> -Carl

***Wow. I can't believe this. Why should I bother buying something
when I get excellent results from my Sony Professional cassette
recorder and have to go to analog anyway?? I can't believe this
stuff is so far behind...

JP

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5825.html#5833

> Joe,
>
> One more important thing: sit down for a second and write down
*exactly* what you think you intend to do with this thing. Try and
focus as much as you can. When offering tips on technology, it really
helps to narrow the search to items that would be most appropriate.
Otherwise one just ends up throwing all kinds of ideas at you, over-
the-top and under-the-need, and you don't need to be wasting time on
the tips.
>
> And neither do we!
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***That's a good suggestion, Jon. Well, basically, I want to record
concert performances. I was hoping there was some recorder that
would record, possibly to .wav format and I could just USB them over
to my computer, like I USB mp3's over to my little mp3 players, since
it acts as an external drive (actually it acts as *2* of them with
the chip inside...)

However, after looking at:

http://www.minidisco.com/

I realize I have to just *record* in from ANALOG. That's amazing,
since I can do that now with my Sony Professional Walkman with a old
fashioned TAPE cassette but still get excellent results. I just have
been recording that into my soundcard with good results, but I
thought that going to analog was old-fashioned.

Now I'm finding out that that's the only way to do it! I'm not
terribly anxious, in this case, to spend $$ when the objective is to
basically just get a good recording, which I can already do.

I like the new toys, but the *results* matter much more to me than
the shiny toys... :)

JP

Joe,

Have some herbal tea. Take a break. Calm down. Time to think...

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> ***That's a good suggestion, Jon. Well, basically, I want to record
> concert performances.

Good - that is what I needed to know.

And so that we are on the same page, I have the very same Walkman Pro cassette recorder as you. Of course, I haven't used it in quite a while...

> I was hoping there was some recorder that would record, possibly
> to .wav format and I could just USB them over to my computer,
> like I USB mp3's over to my little mp3 players, since
> it acts as an external drive (actually it acts as *2* of them with
> the chip inside...)

There are. Are they less than $500? Yes, but we'll have to see if they meet your needs.

> However, after looking at:
>
> http://www.minidisco.com/

Um, Joe, you looked at *one* site and you only did it in one day. You really have to research a little more before you form the opinion that:

"Now I'm finding out that that's the only way to do it! I'm not terribly anxious, in this case, to spend $$ when the objective is to basically just get a good recording, which I can already do."

It isn't the only way to do it, that is simply all you've looked at.

OK, you are aware that mp3 is a compression format, so the data files (the audio) that you end up are a lot smaller than a corresponding wav format audio file? That is one reason why the direct to wav recorders are still in the early stages: storage.

To do any kind of reasonable length of recording, you have to go one of two ways: DAT or hard disc. Portable DAT recorders have been around for a number of years, probably a decade or so. You get incredible results, but they are bulky, they rely on a lot of mechanical technology (tape handling/recording is much more intricate than a cassette), and therefore battery life is a critical commodity.

But as to *quality*, there is another aspect:

> I can do that now with my Sony Professional Walkman with a old
> fashioned TAPE cassette but still get excellent results.

...and...

> I like the new toys, but the *results* matter much more to me than
> the shiny toys... :)

Are you under the impression that a good analog cassette recording going into an analog input will be equivalent to a good digital recording in the same manner? I think you need to educate yourself a little in that regard!

Cassettes are a noisy medium. I wouldn't part with all the tapes I made on my Sony, but they archive a time when that was the best I could do. Anything I would take off of them I would have to run through a noise reduction tool in Sound Forge. You *will* get better recordings with the newer generation of tools, and your ears will eventually tell you that. Whether the *difference* is great enough to warrant the change, I don't know.

Two places you should look:

http://www.outwardsound.com/
http://www.audiocubes.com/
http://www.core-sound.com/mics.html

Two things to notice on the first site: they are currently featuring a new hard disc recording unit that looks ultra-portable. But you should also look at their 'packages', where they put together a recording unit with appropriate microphones.

My recording method of choice right now is a Sharp MD-DR7 paired with Core Sound binaural mics. This combo would be a tad over your budget (not too much), but here is what I get:

- a recording device that can record almost 24 hours on it's own battery

- a recording device that is smaller than a pack of cigarettes, and probably as light or lighter

- with the mics, recordings that are not only some of the most realistic captures of a concert experience (especially when reproduced through headphones, as the mics are worn near the ears when recording), but by far the most unobtrusive. No bulky equipment, no microphone hanging out there, etc.

- a format that allows rapid finding of material similar to a CD, unlike the ff and rew on an old cassette tape.

There *are* downsides as well, which I could let you know about too. But I haven't gone back one bit; my Sony still catchs dust.

As to your first question, about wav inputing directly? I actually haven't done it, but my Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 mp3 player (a 20Gb hard drive) has the ability to record directly to wav, and then I would sync it to the computer with the USB connection. I *know* it won't get the battery life of the MD units, I can't vouch for the quality or ease of recording yet (I believe you have to set a level, try and see how it is, if you peak or under-record you have to reset level and try again, etc.). It *is* intended as a play unit, but I do have, already for significantly less than your price tag, a way to do direct-disc recording and transfer back to the computer.

Don't say it can't be done - you haven't looked enough.

And you really need to know that if the input is through an analog device, you still only get the quality that is going in, and the cassette medium has been surpassed. Not to mention that the quality of the a/d convertors vary widely, and a dedicated quality audio card (as we've discussed recently) will improve any recording you pump into it.

I hope that gives you a flavor. MD has been the hands-down choice for a generation of concert-tapers already; the US market has never really taken off (it is much bigger in Asia, and Europe to an extent) so there are potential service issues and so on. If MD is a format that is of interest to you, I would highly suggest perusing the very informative site at:

http://www.minidisc.org/

And one word of advice: don't plan on getting a Sony MD for live recording...

HTH,
Jon

> ***Thanks, Graham. Actually, I went over to:
>
> http://www.minidisco.com
>
> on a friend's recommendation,

They're right down the street from where I live.

> and I was shocked to find that you had to record ANALOG
> output. Dumb. I mean why bother? I could just as
> well keep using my Sony Professional with *tape* and do that!

Yes, Joe, I've been trying to tell you that.

-Carl

> ***Wow. I can't believe this. Why should I bother buying
> something when I get excellent results from my Sony Professional
> cassette recorder and have to go to analog anyway?? I can't
> believe this stuff is so far behind...

It isn't the tech, it's the legistlation. It's quasi-illegal
to sell what you want. Anyway the likes of SONY wouldn't be
first to market it, since they're also publisher of music, and
they're frightened to death of digital copying.

-Carl

> I realize I have to just *record* in from ANALOG.

That's not quite right. You can record from digital
(SPDIF, usually). It's digital out you can't get,
so minidisc recorders (at least, the non-pro models)
are no good for mastering.

I've been looking for something like this since at
least 1994. If you find anything, let me know!

My friend has a Pogo Ripflash. It sucks, don't
get it. They don't say it, but the mp3 recording
is limited to 112Kbps, and there are serious bugs
in the firmware.

I haven't tried the Archos unit but it's ugly enough
to turn me off.

I think the Neuros is supposed to record...

http://www.neurosaudio.com/

...but last I heard they're not shipping yet, after well
over a year of hype.

-Carl

> And one word of advice: don't plan on getting a Sony MD for
> live recording...

Several Sony models now support real-time manual levels, if
that's what you're referring to.

-Carl

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
> Several Sony models now support real-time manual levels, if
> that's what you're referring to.

Are you ABSOLUTELY sure of that? Yes, it is the one thing that causes most people doing live, field recording to shy away from the Sonys. And I haven't kept track, since I didn't need to, but for the longest time you had to jump through hoops to make sure your recording didn't go on top of a previous one. You actually had to pro-actively do something to start a new track. Dumb. But that may be fixed.

But wait for the next message to come, as I'm downloading something to check...

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5825.html#5838

> Joe,
>
> Have some herbal tea. Take a break. Calm down. Time to think...
>

***Thanks so much, Jon for all the leads here. Well, I don't want to
appear "opinionated" on this subject. That would be very hard to do
at the moment, since I know very little about it... :)

>
> > However, after looking at:
> >
> > http://www.minidisco.com/
>
> Um, Joe, you looked at *one* site and you only did it in one day.
You really have to research a little more before you form the opinion
that:

[rightfully snipped]

***That makes sense. Sorry to "jump to conclusions" but a few other
people were saying this at a composers meeting yesterday as well, so
it seems they also didn't know of the "newest" stuff out there.

> OK, you are aware that mp3 is a compression format, so the data
files (the audio) that you end up are a lot smaller than a
corresponding wav format audio file? That is one reason why the
direct to wav recorders are still in the early stages: storage.
>

***Sure. Got it.

>
> Are you under the impression that a good analog cassette recording
going into an analog input will be equivalent to a good digital
recording in the same manner? I think you need to educate yourself a
little in that regard!
>
> Cassettes are a noisy medium. I wouldn't part with all the tapes I
made on my Sony, but they archive a time when that was the best I
could do. Anything I would take off of them I would have to run
through a noise reduction tool in Sound Forge. You *will* get better
recordings with the newer generation of tools, and your ears will
eventually tell you that. Whether the *difference* is great enough to
warrant the change, I don't know.
>

***OK, that makes sense... Well, I'm hoping to move to *digital* in
any case. It's about time...

> Two places you should look:
>
> http://www.outwardsound.com/
> http://www.audiocubes.com/
> http://www.core-sound.com/mics.html
>
> Two things to notice on the first site: they are currently
featuring a new hard disc recording unit that looks ultra-portable.
But you should also look at their 'packages', where they put together
a recording unit with appropriate microphones.
>

***Well, that first one looks intriguing. Maybe I should buy that
one and mess around with it?? It's not overly expensive.

I seems, though, I would have to buy the mics too (logically) so
that's another $200, but it's still not too much over my $500 goal...

I had a question, though. I'm confused about the "packages" you're
talking about: I'm not seeing them on the site??

And, I'm confused about the mics. It says the mics for this are for
devices with "line input" only. I don't know what the included "A3"
adapter is, and it says the IRiver has *OPTICAL* input and output.

I don't have a clue! *HELP!*

I notice, also they're selling a *preamp* with it. Do you need that
in order to get the mics to work?

I'm getting nervous again. I think my tea had caffene in it...

>
> And one word of advice: don't plan on getting a Sony MD for live
recording...
>

***Whooo, thanks for the caveat, since I was looking at them and
wondering.

Thanks for all the help. (I'm not buying anything today, or even
tomorrow, or even the day after tomorrow... but maybe I should get
something before I go [hopefully] to St. Petersburg in the Spring)

best,

Joe

> > Several Sony models now support real-time manual levels, if
> > that's what you're referring to.
>
> Are you ABSOLUTELY sure of that?

Yes.

>for the longest time you had to jump through hoops to make sure
>your recording didn't go on top of a previous one.

Yeah; I lost a recording once to that. It's End Search. They've
now fixed that on some models too.

-Carl

Jon Szanto wrote:

>Are you ABSOLUTELY sure of that? Yes, it is the one thing that causes most people doing live, field recording to shy away from the Sonys. And I haven't kept track, since I didn't need to, but for the longest time you had to jump through hoops to make sure your recording didn't go on top of a previous one. You actually had to pro-actively do something to start a new track. Dumb. But that may be fixed.
> >
My MZ-N505 has manual recording levels. It is a bit weird about recording over old tracks, but I've never had a problem with that. I usually start with a new disc. They're cheap, after all.

Graham

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:
> My MZ-N505 has manual recording levels.

Sonys have had manual levels, but many of their models (until recently, Carl tells me) you had to stop/pause recording to change levels - not exactly ideal for live situations.

> but I've never had a problem with that. I
> usually start with a new disc. They're cheap, after all.

Oh please. I'm going to swap discs on each take I want to do, or jump through some menu changes? All I do is press record again on the Sharp and it's a new track, which also makes later editing a snap.

Thankfully, it looks like this has also been corrected by Sony.

Cheers,
Jon

Jon Szanto wrote:

>Sonys have had manual levels, but many of their models (until recently, Carl tells me) you had to stop/pause recording to change levels - not exactly ideal for live situations.
> >
You said they didn't have them. I can't read your mind I'm afraid. Yes, you have to be recording to set the level. I don't know what you expect of "live situations". You press play-pause, then set the level, then press pause again.

>Oh please. I'm going to swap discs on each take I want to do, or jump through some menu changes? All I do is press record again on the Sharp and it's a new track, which also makes later editing a snap.
> >
You do takes live? I thought "live recording" meant you left it going for a concert.

You can press a button on the set or "remote" and it marks a new track. You can also do this while listening back. There's no need to stop and start.

>Thankfully, it looks like this has also been corrected by Sony.
> >
What was corrected? It's like a cassette recorder. If you've just recorded something, it'll be at the end, so you can record something new. You aren't saying cassette recorders are no use because you can overwrite recordings.

Graham

Hi Graham,

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:
> You said they didn't have them. I can't read your mind I'm afraid.

I'm sorry, maybe I garbled something. I have always known that you can set levels on a Sony, just that you must stop/pause to do that. My fault if it came out wrong...

> I don't know what you expect of "live situations". You press
> play-pause, then set the level, then press pause again.

That is NO GOOD. Any decent recording device lets you alter levels without missing any of the recording; and now Sony does as well.

> You do takes live? I thought "live recording" meant you left it
> going for a concert.

Live recording can also mean recording musicians playing live, doing multiple takes. If the Sharp is stopped, I simply press Record and go, knowing I won't be recording over anything. At least until recently the Sony models needed to first find the end of the disc (or some similar convention) and then go into recording. Not a fine feature.

> You can press a button on the set or "remote" and it marks a new track.
> You can also do this while listening back. There's no need to stop and
> start.

Yes. Same here.

> What was corrected? It's like a cassette recorder. If you've just
> recorded something, it'll be at the end, so you can record something
> new.

That is *not* how I've understood the Sonys to be, and I had done a lot of research on the various MD sites. But I stopped looking at Sonys at least a year ago or more, and if the default way they handle recordings has changed, that is a good thing.

> You aren't saying cassette recorders are no use because you can
> overwrite recordings.

No. I'm saying a (previous) implementation of recording on (some) minidiscs was inadvertantly destructive. I think overwriting is a *fine* thing, and resource-friendly as well!

Sorry for any misunderstandings...

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:

> Another thing is that it broke not long after I got it, and it took
>them
> months to get it fixed on warranty. Presumably, everybody else
>will say
> they've never had any trouble,

all of stretch's minidisc recorders are broken.

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...>
wrote:

> However, after looking at:
>
> http://www.minidisco.com/
>
> I realize I have to just *record* in from ANALOG.

look somewhere else. many minidisc units have *optical* jacks.

> all of stretch's minidisc recorders are broken.

I've owned four minidisc recorders and all but
one (MZ-R50) have broken while under warranty.

Getting them fixed under warranty is, as you
might imagine, a Royal pain in the Ass. In
the case of my R90, they lost it, and after 6
months wound up comping me a N1, which promptly
(though not fatally) broke.

-Carl

Jon Szanto wrote:

>Live recording can also mean recording musicians playing live, doing multiple takes. If the Sharp is stopped, I simply press Record and go, knowing I won't be recording over anything. At least until recently the Sony models needed to first find the end of the disc (or some similar convention) and then go into recording. Not a fine feature.
> >
Right, well the way mine works there are two global, persistent modes. The default is that it records at the current point, or in a new group if the current group is empty. The alternative is that it always records at the end of the disc. So I assume this is confimation that the problem is fixed?

Graham

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5825.html#5867

> > all of stretch's minidisc recorders are broken.
>
> I've owned four minidisc recorders and all but
> one (MZ-R50) have broken while under warranty.
>
> Getting them fixed under warranty is, as you
> might imagine, a Royal pain in the Ass. In
> the case of my R90, they lost it, and after 6
> months wound up comping me a N1, which promptly
> (though not fatally) broke.
>
> -Carl

***What is it about these units that make them break like this?
Something about the way the moving parts are set up??

I have to say that the "old fashioned" Sony Professional Walkman
seldom broke down. I logged a fair amount of time on mine, but I
know some people who used them incredibly, and they remained faithful
operating servants...

JP

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, Graham Breed <graham@m...> wrote:
> So I assume this is confimation that
> the problem is fixed?

Sounds like it to me!

Cheers,
Jon

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> ***What is it about these units that make them break like this?
> Something about the way the moving parts are set up??

I note that Carl's (the ones he mentioned) are all Sonys; I have owned 3 Sharps. All have offered perfect service except for:

- the one that got dropped, denting in the AC adaptor, which I had fixed by a colleague

- the one that slipped from my hands while recording dredging in a channel in the bay, and sits somewhere many feet underwater in the jetty rocks. I am assuming it has stopped recording...

Cheers,
Jon

> ***What is it about these units that make them break like this?
> Something about the way the moving parts are set up??

No, you're thinking of DAT machines. :)

I think the Sony build quality just went to hell. My friend's
Sharp is built like a brick shithouse, though...

-Carl

--- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

/metatuning/topicId_5825.html#5874

> --- In metatuning@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson"
<jpehrson@r...> wrote:
> > ***What is it about these units that make them break like this?
> > Something about the way the moving parts are set up??
>
> I note that Carl's (the ones he mentioned) are all Sonys; I have
owned 3 Sharps. All have offered perfect service except for:
>
> - the one that got dropped, denting in the AC adaptor, which I had
fixed by a colleague
>
> - the one that slipped from my hands while recording dredging in a
channel in the bay, and sits somewhere many feet underwater in the
jetty rocks. I am assuming it has stopped recording...
>
> Cheers,
> Jon

***Hi Jon: you cite good reasons why there might be a possible
misfunction...

JP